BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Recipe Discussions => Meat => Topic started by: Father Tom on August 19, 2009, 10:52:16 AM

Title: Irish Bacon
Post by: Father Tom on August 19, 2009, 10:52:16 AM
Being a good Irishman,  ::) i would like to made some Irish Bacon but can find no Recipe for it.  It is close to Canadian Bacon in that it uses the loin.  Any one know the cure??  The rub??  I know they use Oak for the smoke.  Thanks

FT
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: FLBentRider on August 19, 2009, 10:56:18 AM
I don't know a whole lot about Irish bacon, but I did find this:

http://realirishfood.blogspot.com/2008/03/irish-bacon-boiling-bacon-that-isthe.html
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: squirtthecat on August 19, 2009, 11:24:48 AM

Smoked bangers and mash!!    (ok, a banger is a sausage, but it still sounds good..)



Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Father Tom on August 19, 2009, 12:23:25 PM
Thans FLBR..  I am looking for what is called "Back Bocon from which rashers come, is actually cut from the loin and cured in spices"   

I was hopeing that one of our friends from across the pond would know how to do it.

Thanks again.

FT
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: FLBentRider on August 19, 2009, 12:38:08 PM
FWIW - Canadians call Canadian bacon "back bacon", or so I'm told.
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: dilly on August 20, 2009, 06:21:12 AM
Quote from: FLBentRider on August 19, 2009, 12:38:08 PM
FWIW - Canadians call Canadian bacon "back bacon", or so I'm told.
We sure do. Its because it is made from the loin (back strap muscle).  We also have "peameal" bacon which is cured but not smoked.  Its the same cut that is cured and rolled in peameal to give it a crust.  You fry it for breakfast in a pan typically.  Sounds like Irish settlers in Canada may have brought it from the old country and it eventually got a name change.
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 20, 2009, 08:41:39 AM
Hi Father Tom,

See below for a guide to the process of making cold smoked (Irish) back bacon:

http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/dryCure.pdf

Note pics include pork loin ("back bacon") and pork belly. ("streaky bacon")

Depending on where the pork comes from or where the bacon is made  (e.g Irish / English / Scottish / Welsh / Manx / Danish) it tends to be call Irish back bacon etc etc.  ::)

The way I did mine was slightly different in that I did not vacuum seal it during curing, I used large tupperware type boxes and tipped the fluid that comes off the meat away every day. I also used slightly more cure than they suggest.

The cure I use is either from the same company or:

http://www.weschenfelder.co.uk/supracure-cured-bacon-p-110.html

Whether they ship across the pond is another matter? I might be able to find out what ingredients they use?

I am just a stones throw from Ireland out in the Irish Sea, and frequently make my own bacon. Most of the pork loin I use is Irish and traditionally it is oak smoked as you say.

Most bacon on this side of the pond is cold smoked, I get the impression that most bacon on the US / Canadian side is hot smoked?

At the end of the curing process I smoke for between 5 and 8 hours in my Bradley Smoker, vacuum seal for a few days to let the smoke flavour develop then slice into rashers and re pack.

Hope this helps.  :)
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: 3rensho on August 20, 2009, 09:12:03 AM
Regarding the SupraCure I'd be interested in anything you can find out Manx.  I bought some a while back since I can't find a supplier of Prague #2 locally and they were not at all forthcoming with what it contains and how much.  It appears to contain NaNO2 and NaNO3 plus NaCl but would not give me percentages.  Baring that information it sits on the shelf.  Hope you have better luck.

Tom
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 20, 2009, 09:28:57 AM
QuoteRegarding the SupraCure I'd be interested in anything you can find out Manx.

I can but try!! I suspect I won't get very far and certainly not as far as percentages!!  ::)

I tend to use the traditional dry cure Sausage Making                                                                      ( http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/bacon_cures.html ) ones more but both work well.

My understanding this is equivalent to praque#2?:

http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/All_Purpose_Curing_Salt.html

but I am right in thinking you had a problem with this company in the past with something broken in transit? Thay also sell saltpetre but to date I have never used it.

I have not checked out what is actually in either of the bacon cures to date but thought if I could give Father Tom a general pointer he could recreate his own!  :)

Are you concerned about the curing properties Tom?


Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Father Tom on August 20, 2009, 10:51:29 AM
Thanks MANX:  Just for information Prague Powder #1 contains 1 oz Sodium Nitrite  to each 1 lb of salt.   Prague Powder #2 contains 1 oz of Sodium Nitrite  along with .64 Oz of Sodium Nitrate  to each 1 lb of salt.  This is from "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing by Rytek Katas".

What temperature do you smoke the "Loin Bacon at"?  I understand that Pea meal Bacon is cured but not smoked and after curing are dried and then coated with yellow corn meal.

If you need any cure's 1 or 2 let me know and i will forward some to you.  

Thanks

FT

Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 20, 2009, 12:10:57 PM
Thanks for the info re Praque Powder #1 and #2 Father Tom and the offer to forward some though shipping across the pond.... need to check out shipping costs!  >:(

Cold smoking is done at < 80F although some sources say <90F or even 100F. I always try and stick to <80F which isn't difficult around here!  :'(

The basic back bacon cure is salt, sugar, sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate which is the basis of the sausagemaking.org "traditional bacon cure".

There are two cult books here in the UK "Adventures of a Bacon Curer" and "Secrets of a Bacon Curer" by Maynard Davies, he gives a few old fashioned bacon cures which include sea salt / fine salt, muscovada sugar, demerera sugar, saltpetre, coriander and black pepper but most people just use the basic version, usually as a dry cure but also as a brine occasionally.

If you have trouble getting hold of or making up a suitable cure, let me know and I will send you some. I am due to buy some more soon and buy in 1 kg (2.2lb) bags which does up to around 25 - 30 lb bacon. I always have some left over and can always send you enough to do a couple of pork loins and would probably not cost the earth in shipping.  :)
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 20, 2009, 03:43:07 PM
Looking forward to this book being published in September:

http://www.merlinunwin.co.uk/bookDetails.asp?bookId=96&categoryId=5
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: smokeitall on August 20, 2009, 06:01:57 PM
Yeah that looks interesting I'm in for a copy.
SIA
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: 3rensho on August 21, 2009, 12:37:51 AM
Quotebut I am right in thinking you had a problem with this company in the past with something broken in transit?

Yes, that is the company.  It was finally resolved but dealing with these folks was a major hassle. They are still up to their bait and switch tactics.  The picture they show for a Reber vacuum sealer that they call a model 9701N is not a 9701N at all.  So they advertise one model and send another hoping no one turns it over to read the actual model number.   

Anyway, I came across a reference to Supracure on a sausage making web site last night.  A person posted that Supracure was 1.5% sodium nitrite and 1.5% sodium nitrate.  I'm not sure how he got his info.  If you get any info I'd be interested.

Tom
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 21, 2009, 01:11:28 AM
QuoteIf you get any info I'd be interested.

I have emailed the store owner to ask. I have talked to him on a couple of occasions in the past as his family has links to the Isle of Man. Nice bloke, hopefully he can give us this info without breaking any trade secrets!!

The other company are OK, I have had a few more minor issues and prefer Weschenfelder overall, the service I have had from them has been much better but SausageMaking.org carry some products that Weschenfelder don't.
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Father Tom on August 21, 2009, 09:21:27 AM
Thanks ManX

I make slab & loin bacon monthly and have many recipes.  One Irish cook book says Back Bacon is cured with spices.  I was hopeing that someone would know the spices/herbs.   Sounds like i use the same bases cure you do.  If you would like either cure you can contact me by email and i will get for  you.

Thanks again guys and i will try and get the new book over here. "Cheaper"

FT  ;D
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: 3rensho on August 21, 2009, 11:02:04 AM
Yes, I too prefer Weschenfelder and Chris Weschenfelder is a very reasonable person to deal with.  They have always done right by me.  You're right that the products that sausagemaker carry fill a much needed gap - at least in my experience on the continent.

Tom
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 21, 2009, 11:24:30 AM
QuoteOne Irish cook book says Back Bacon is cured with spices.

Thanks for the offer Father Tom, I will email you if I need some.  :)

There seem to be quite a few variations on basic traditional cold smoked back bacon on this side of the pond and regions of Ireland no doubt have there own local variations.

I have found some English variations that use wild honey, another that uses caraway seeds and ginger and yet another dating from the 1800's that uses treacle and molasses..... but no Irish variations to date. If I turn up anything I will let you know.  :)

QuoteI too prefer Weschenfelder and Chris Weschenfelder is a very reasonable person to deal with.

Got an email from Rob Weschenfelder re concentrations but have asked for clarification on a point, will let you know the outcome Tom.  :)

Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 24, 2009, 06:23:16 AM
QuoteGot an email from Rob Weschenfelder re concentrations but have asked for clarification on a point, will let you know the outcome Tom.

Hi Tom ...... had confirmation email to say there is 0.6g sodium nitrate + 0.6g sodium nitrite per 100g cure mix in Supracure. Hope this helps.  :)
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: FLBentRider on August 24, 2009, 10:19:19 AM
Quote from: manxman on August 24, 2009, 06:23:16 AM
QuoteGot an email from Rob Weschenfelder re concentrations but have asked for clarification on a point, will let you know the outcome Tom.

Hi Tom ...... had confirmation email to say there is 0.6g sodium nitrate + 0.6g sodium nitrite per 100g cure mix in Supracure. Hope this helps.  :)

That sounds like cure #2 - it has both the nitrAte and nitrIte.
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 24, 2009, 12:04:55 PM
QuoteThat sounds like cure #2 - it has both the nitrAte and nitrIte.

That was my thought too FLB. I have just ordered some as it makes very good cold smoked back bacon.

Also ordered a brineometer ( no more floating an egg!) together with some bits and pieces to make some chorizo and black pudding.

Not sure if you have black pudding on the other side of the pond but it goes nicely with bacon and scallops, hope to make about 20lb of the stuff to an old Scottish recipe and smoke half.

Never had it smoked before....... got to be better than smoked liver though!  ;) (the worst thing I have EVER smoked!  :-[ )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/mostof_blackpudding.shtml
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Tenpoint5 on August 24, 2009, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: manxman on August 24, 2009, 12:04:55 PM
QuoteThat sounds like cure #2 - it has both the nitrAte and nitrIte.

That was my thought too FLB. I have just ordered some as it makes very good cold smoked back bacon.

Also ordered a brineometer ( no more floating an egg!) together with some bits and pieces to make some chorizo and black pudding.

Not sure if you have black pudding on the other side of the pond but it goes nicely with bacon and scallops, hope to make about 20lb of the stuff to an old Scottish recipe and smoke half.

Never had it smoked before....... got to be better than smoked liver though!  ;) (the worst thing I have EVER smoked!  :-[ )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/mostof_blackpudding.shtml

Blood Sausage and Mustard takes me back to my days in Germany. Used to have 2 of them every morning with my coffee while reviewing case files.
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 24, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
Quote from: manxman on August 24, 2009, 06:23:16 AM
QuoteGot an email from Rob Weschenfelder re concentrations but have asked for clarification on a point, will let you know the outcome Tom.

Hi Tom ...... had confirmation email to say there is 0.6g sodium nitrate + 0.6g sodium nitrite per 100g cure mix in Supracure. Hope this helps.  :)

That is very close to being the formula for Tender Quick which is .5% sodium nitrate and .5% sodium nitrite the rest of TQ is approximately 78% salt and 20% sugar, the other1% or so is an additive to prevent caking.
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: 3rensho on August 24, 2009, 02:15:51 PM
Hi Manx,

Wow, thanks for the info!!!  ;D ;D  I really appreciate your efforts.  As soon as fall gets here and the sauerkraut is fermenting I'm gonna whip up a batch of salami and will use the SupraCure now that the mystery is solved.

Tom
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 25, 2009, 02:42:16 AM
QuoteThat is very close to being the formula for Tender Quick which is .5% sodium nitrate and .5% sodium nitrite the rest of TQ is approximately 78% salt and 20% sugar, the other1% or so is an additive to prevent caking.

That useful to know Habs.  :)

QuoteBlood Sausage and Mustard

Heard they were called blood sausage in Germany, quite a few European countries in particular seem to have their own versions.  :)

Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: 3rensho on August 25, 2009, 04:28:09 AM
QuoteHeard they were called blood sausage in Germany, quite a few European countries in particular seem to have their own versions. 

Yes, blood sausage is popular here and in our neighboring countries.  In Switzerland in late fall and winter we have "fresh" blood sausage (Blutwurst) available on Tuesdays - they slaughter animals on Mondays (heck of a way to start your week if you're a piggy).  That is sold in 35mm natural casings and is really squishy being composed only of fresh blood, eggs, cream and spices.  It sets up a little when you poach it.  There are also two firm varieties sold as breakfast meats.  One is blood with chunks of fat in it and the other is blood with chunks of smoked tongue.  I see lots of others in Alsace and southern Germany.  I've also enjoyed black pudding with my full English every time I get to the UK.  Never met one I didn't like.

Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 25, 2009, 05:54:03 AM
Quoteblood with chunks of smoked tongue.

Now that does sound good!

White pudding is nice too, if you are really lucky you get both on the breakfast plate!!  ;) :D
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: 3rensho on August 25, 2009, 08:40:26 AM
I've never even heard of white pudding.  What is in that?
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on August 25, 2009, 12:06:04 PM
QuoteI've never even heard of white pudding.  What is in that?

Basically black pudding without the blood!  ::)

I think it has pork meat substituted for blood in addition to the oatmeal, suet, fat and spices found in black pudding.

I have only had the Irish version which is typically eaten with breakfast but I think the Scots, some parts of northern England and some parts of Canada have their own versions. There is even a vegetarian (sorry for the bad language! >:() version by all accounts  which sounds ....... AWFUL!  ::) :-X

Ever had haggis Tom?  :)
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Father Tom on November 20, 2009, 01:03:03 PM
Haggis!  Yes, have a lot of British friends and have been to the Queen Ball a few times and always have Haggis.  To me it's like drinking Scotch.  One must acquire a taste for it.  O well Sausage is sausage.  Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.  Hope you are not in the flooded area.  Take care.

Father Tom
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on November 20, 2009, 01:34:09 PM
Hi Father Tom,

Haggis certainly is an acquired taste but I love it, finally got around to making my own within the past couple of weeks which is certainly not for the faint hearted!  :o  Had a bit of a problem getting hold of a sheep's pluck and a cow's stomach!  ::)

Next batch I plan on trying to smoke a couple. Just made some smoked back bacon and streaky bacon as well which turned out really well.

QuoteHope you are not in the flooded area.

No, severe gales and heavy rain for a few days with more hitting us tomorrow but no flooding fortunately... thanks for asking FT.

Best wishes.  :)


Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: Father Tom on November 21, 2009, 10:21:43 AM
Manxman:  I would love to try making Haggis but i don't know anyone around these parts that would help me get rid of it ???  Living in a ranch area i know i could get the major items, Stomach and organs but would sure get looked at by the rancher..

I have slowed down making much of anything as the wife is now on a fat free diet :(
i have put together a chicken+jalapeno+cramberry summer sausage.  Stuffed this AM and going into smoker this afternoon.  will let you know how it turnes out.

take care and keep your powder dry.

FT
Title: Re: Irish Bacon
Post by: manxman on November 22, 2009, 12:48:43 PM
Quotei have put together a chicken+jalapeno+cramberry summer sausage.

Yes, do let us know how it turns out FT......... and post the recipe if it turns out well!  ;) :D

Haggis is superb, although only eat it maybe 3 or 4 times a year as it is probably not the healthiest option with all the beef suet etc in it. I have managed to covert a couple of people who had never tasted it before and one who even saw what went into it!  ::) :o

It is also so cheap to make!  ;) :D

Hope the summer sausage is a success........  :)