BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Bradley Smokers => The Black Bradley Smoker (BTIS1) => Topic started by: love the smoke on January 01, 2010, 07:40:14 PM

Title: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: love the smoke on January 01, 2010, 07:40:14 PM
I am doing the extra heating element upgrade on my OBS, but have a few questions, I would like to take the slider out of the circut but leave the light in. So do I just unplug the wires from the slider and tie them togather and thats it ?

I am thinking about doing the switch on the second element also, so with the slider out of the picture will my Auber plug and play work GOOD with 2 elements running to get up to temp then switch 1 element off to "cook", 2 elements on rotate switch racks,1 element on to "cook", 2 elements on to baste ribs, 1element on to cook, or will the auber not control well being the time it takes the temperature to rise changes,

1 more ....... any sugeations on how to fill in the extra holesin the back of my smoker from the previous "project"      4.......1/4 inch holes

LTS

 
 
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 07:55:38 PM
LTS

As far as the 1/4" holes from your previous mod goes I would just use a 1/4" pan head stainless bolt and put the nut on the back.

When you use a PID to control the two elements it will just apply less power to the elements when the additional heat is not required. For this reason you may not need to put a switch in for the 2nd element. The other problem is when you are controlling the unit with a PID and you switch from 1 to 2 elements, you are changing the variables (response time) and the PID may not be as accurate. Basically you may need a different set of parameters for running 1 element vs running 2.

I'll see if I can find some info on the OBS slide control for you.

Hopefully Habs will see this and provide his comments because he did it on his OBS.

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:08:21 PM
Here is a photo from Habs mod that he did. In it you can see the 2 white wires that plug into the circuit board, basically you just need to unplug these off the circuit board and use a jumper wire to connect them together. The light will still be in the original circuit and function as it did before.

(http://www.susanminor.org/users/Hab/Misc_Files/Additional_Element/_1OBS_TempCrtl_Wiring.jpg)

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: GusRobin on January 01, 2010, 08:41:18 PM
Quote from: love the smoke on January 01, 2010, 07:40:14 PM
I am doing the extra heating element upgrade on my OBS, but have a few questions, I would like to take the slider out of the circut but leave the light in. So do I just unplug the wires from the slider and tie them togather and thats it ?

Why? I don't think you gain anything by taking the slide out of the picture. I did my mod to the OBS as listed by Habs and Mike and it works perfect. Just leave the slide on "high" and the PID controls everything.

I am thinking about doing the switch on the second element also, so with the slider out of the picture will my Auber plug and play work GOOD with 2 elements running to get up to temp then switch 1 element off to "cook", 2 elements on rotate switch racks,1 element on to "cook", 2 elements on to baste ribs, 1element on to cook, or will the auber not control well being the time it takes the temperature to rise changes,

The PID controls the two elements as one. By this I mean that it controls the temp by turning the power to the elements off and on at the appropriate times based upon how the PID is tuned. Since the 2 elements are connected to one power terminal they will go on and off together when controlled by the PID. The switch allows you to manually turn off one element. Not sure when you would do it, but it gives you that option. By leaving the original element connected to the slide, it gives you the option to also manually control that element. Again I am not sure when you would do that since once you install the second element you should tune your PID. If you switch between 1 and 2 elements manually like you indicate, it will screw up the tuning. If you are going to do the mod, leave it connected to the slide. I put the switch in mine just because it was easy and some day I may find a reason to want to manually manipulate the elements. But I would recommend leaving the slide connected. If you decide to take it out of the loop, then you need to check where the overtemp sensor is connected. Not sure if it is connected to the slide or the element. You don't want that disonnected.


 
 
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 09:07:02 PM
Gus

The OBS has a thermal cutoff located in the back of the tower about halfway up. Here's a picture that shows the wiring in the back of the tower (thermal cutoff is in upper right side). Bypassing the slider will still keep the thermal cutoff in the circuit and I agree with you, you want to keep it in the circuit. Another one of Habs pictures...

(http://www.susanminor.org/users/Hab/Misc_Files/Additional_Element/_2Back_Wiring.jpg)

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Habanero Smoker on January 02, 2010, 03:04:05 AM
Late to the discussion again :)

Mike is correct, you just need to unplug the wires from the circuit and connect them to one another.

I left mine connected, and added a switch to the second element. I did this so I could cut off the second element, and still maintain manual control over the original element. There are times when I am doing a quick smoke I don't want to set up my Raptor/Guru. Another reason I added a switch to the second element is that when I'm making sausage, I want a gentle increase in temperature, at staged intervals; but that is one of my preferences.
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: drano on January 02, 2010, 06:23:47 PM
LTS,

I've got one element, w/ the plug n play PID, and now have the slider disconnected.
I disconnected the slider by removing the 2 wires off the slider board, then putting a jumper wire between the 2 ends.  I got matching connectors from the local hardware store, added a short piece of wire and plugged them into the wire ends.  No Bradley wires were cut this way, and I can put it back if I want to.
As Mike said, the front light still operates. 
get smokin
drano
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: love the smoke on January 02, 2010, 07:51:54 PM
Yet another ? or comment from me  Sorry ??? what is the little white thing inside the clear shrink tube? some kind of fusible link or inline fuse ?

I am going to install a second temp limit switch for the second element, the switch that I got from Yard and Pool is JUST the switch no wires or fuse thingy , so I will not have the fuse thinggy in line, Is this a MUST have
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a377/BluePress/100_3633.jpg)
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Habanero Smoker on January 03, 2010, 01:19:45 AM
Mike may be better able to answer that question. To me it did looked like a fuse link, an additional safety measure if the switch did not trip. If the rating is listed on the current one, you should be able to find a replacement at an electrical parts store.
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 08:54:06 AM
We may need to quiz Brian from Bradley on this one.

From my understanding (I own a DBS) the OBS has a thermal cutoff (the black part in the photo). When the heat gets to high the thermal cutoff kills the power. After it's cooled to a given temp it closes and allows power through again.

The DBS has a thermal fuse in it. Once a thermal fuse has blown it has to be replaced. Based on your picture it does kinda look like a thermal fuse.

Just for reference here is a Canadian electronics site that has both thermal cutoffs and thermal fuses to get an idea of what they look like. You can get either one of them from Bradley or Yard & Pool.

Thermal Cutoff....
http://www.a1parts.com/thermal_cut/index.htm

Thermal Fuse....
http://www.a1parts.com/Thermal_Fuses/temperature_fuses.htm

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Bradley (Head Office) on January 03, 2010, 01:47:41 PM
Mike has this one nailed down

The OBS has a Thermal Cutoff (black part in photo) and it has a Thermal Fuse ( white thing inside plastic tube)
The Digital Smokers only have the Thermal Fuse in them.

Brian
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 01:56:11 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Brian.

A quick question though, I'm just curious why the OBS uses both the thermal cutoff and the thermal fuse?

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Bradley (Head Office) on January 03, 2010, 02:00:42 PM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 01:56:11 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Brian.

A quick question though, I'm just curious why the OBS uses both the thermal cutoff and the thermal fuse?

Mike

The thermal fuse acts like a back up in case the thermal cutoff should fail in the closed postion.
The digital is the same way it is in there as a backup for the temp sensor.

Brian
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 02:02:46 PM
Ok... That makes perfect sense Brian.

Thanks again

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: love the smoke on January 03, 2010, 04:12:51 PM
curious how a thermal fuse works, it is not sensing heat as in touching a hot surface like the thermal cutoff is, is it sensing heat as in current going through it ? it does have a amp and volt rating on the side of it.

LTS
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 04:22:04 PM
LTS

The thermal fuse blows at a given temperature. I'm not exactly sure on the exact temperature that Bradley uses. In the OBS or the DBS it is usually located next to the exposed metal of the tower. In Your OBS, it's right next to the thermal cutoff and senses the heat from the exposed metal.

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Bradley (Head Office) on January 03, 2010, 04:42:38 PM
LTS & Mike


The In-line Fuse (thermal fuse) has a rating of 10 amp 250V and is rated for 150c or 300F

Here is a article I copied from the internet on how the fuse works

Thermal Fuse Basics
A thermal fuse is an emergency device used to prevent electrical appliances from overheating. Like an electrical fuse, a thermal fuse completely burn outs when the machine it is attached to gets beyond its safety level. Unlike an electrical fuse, a thermal fuse is melted by excessive heat instead of shorted out by excessive current.

Function
A thermal fuse uses a fusible link--two pieces of metal which are attached together by a substance designed to melt at a particular temperature. Under normal circumstances, current runs through between the two plates, running the appliance. When it gets too hot, however, the fusible alloy--the substance which holds the pieces together--melts, and they spring apart, turning off the current.

The Purpose of a Thermal Fuse
Devices which use heaters, such as coffee machines and hair dryers, have a heating element controlled by a thermostat. The thermostat keeps the heating element at the right temperature by repeatedly turning it on and off. If the thermostat malfunctions and won't turn off, the machine will keep heating up, potentially causing a fire. The thermal fuse stops this from happening by automatically turning off the power if things get dangerously hot.

That explains it better than I could write it.

Brian
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Toker on January 03, 2010, 04:50:31 PM
Sorry to put my nose in it but I'm in the same boat and i don't understand everything  ??? anyway i ordered all the required pieces for it (at least i thought) does it mean that i have to order an Thermal Fuse  separated it didn't came with the black thing? Once again, sorry to put my nose in it.

P.S. my smoker is OBS
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 04:51:30 PM
Thanks again Brian, That's a way better explanation then mine too!  ;)

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 05:11:14 PM
Toker

I can't remember if you have an OBS or a DBS. Either way the directions are on the recipe site.

Here (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?p=910#post910) is the instructions on the DBS.

Here (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?p=917#post917) is the instructions on the OBS.

What we were discussing here was the factory thermal fuse that the Bradley uses as a safety device. Certainly if you install a 2nd element you could also loop the wiring for it right beside the original wiring and install another thermal fuse in it. That way you would have all the protection afforded by the original Bradley, except with 1000 watts of power.

I'm also assuming you are controlling your Bradley with a PID. This is a must in my opinion when adding the 2nd element.

Hope this helps.

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Toker on January 03, 2010, 05:16:56 PM
my smoker is a obs the black one sorry again i put my nose in something that does not regard me but its because i want all my pieces to be there and ready before i call the electrician and i have the impression or the doubt that i m missing a piece so i will need a 2ND thermal fuse according this discussion. I just thought my kit was complete but its not. I'm just a little disappointed it doesn't come with it and disappointed about my low electric knowledge.
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 05:20:12 PM
Toker

No problem...

Are you running a PID?

What parts have you ordered?

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Toker on January 03, 2010, 05:31:54 PM
yes im runing a pid i ordered only the black sensor i forgot to check for the thermal fuse i made a mistake i thought the sensor kit included it based on habs picture i did not seen it the rest is complete execept for the jumper thing you know for connecting the wires out of the slider bar and running it directly throught the back of the unit. But i think my electrician will be able to fix it unless i still missing a detail. ???
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 05:50:13 PM
Toker

I think it would be a good idea (safety wise) to add the thermal fuse for the additional heating element wiring. If you have an electrician doing the wiring for you I'm sure he'll be able to figure it out based on the information on the Recipe site.

You should be able to order the thermal fuse from Bradley or Yard and Pool. It's so small they should be able to send it in regular mail.

Have you already ordered the additional heating element and high temp wire?

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Toker on January 03, 2010, 06:01:11 PM
mike here the things i order from scott place he offered himself to shop all these things to ship at the same time.
Very nice from his part.

http://www.yardandpool.com/Bradley-Smoker-Replacement-Heat-Element-Reflector-p/reflector.htm

http://www.yardandpool.com/Bradley-Smoker-Replacement-Heating-Element-p/heatelement.htm

http://www.yardandpool.com/Bradley-Smoker-Replacement-Temperature-Sensor-p/tempsensor.htm with high temp wire

10 Ft. 14 Gauge High Temperature Wire

High Temperature Wire Connectors

2 female spade connectors

http://www.yardandpool.com/Bradley-Smoker-Replacement-Lower-Face-Plate-p/faceplate.htm

http://www.yardandpool.com/Bradley-Smoker-Replacement-Small-Rubber-Foot-p/rubberfoot-s.htm X3

fan kit and 8 rack kit

Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Toker on January 03, 2010, 06:26:14 PM
Anyway, if you say that i can order it the thermal fuse from Bradley i will i just remarked that the bottom of my door is cracked i have to order from them anyway.
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 06:29:19 PM
Toker

It looks like you have everything you need.

Yup... if you have to order something from Bradley you might just as well get the thermal fuse at the same time.

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Toker on January 03, 2010, 06:35:27 PM
Its been a hard learning night today but i rather make this mistake now than later with the electrician your help doesn't cost as much as it will with the electrician. Anyway THANKS ALOTS FOR YOUR TIME!!!!
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 06:56:19 PM
No problem Toker... if ya lived a little closer I'd do the mod for you.

Keep us posted how you make out with it.

Mike
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: _Bear_ on January 03, 2010, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 06:56:19 PM
No problem Toker... if ya lived a little closer I'd do the mod for you.

Mike

I do live closer and I may just take you up on that sometime LOL.
Title: Re: started extra heating element now have ??
Post by: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 07:16:49 PM
Quote from: _Bear_ on January 03, 2010, 07:07:42 PM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 03, 2010, 06:56:19 PM
No problem Toker... if ya lived a little closer I'd do the mod for you.

Mike

I do live closer and I may just take you up on that sometime LOL.

You bring the beer Bear!  :D

Mike