It's been a while since I've posted, haven't done a whole lot of smoking for the past few months, mainly due to having filled my freezer with pretty much smoked everything over the summer. With only 2 of us, most of the leftovers ended up in the freezer to be enjoyed again later!
But, FINALLY there is some space appearing, and I'm about to do up some more salmon. Last year I posted that I had found some wild sockeye from Alaska in Costco here in the UK. I bought enough to fill the Bradley and it's been slowly consumed ever since. I'm down to my last few packets.... so am gearing up for the next batch. Only problem is, I can't find any Sockeye anymore! I've found that I actually prefer the leaner & slightly drier texture of the Sockeye to the much oilier Atlantic salmon that we can get anywhere over here.
My question for the fishermen out there is, is there a sockeye salmon season that might be affecting the availability of it here in the UK? If I know when the season is, I can then check in again at both Costco and the local fish markets, and hopefully find some again!
i would start looking around august to september thats when the runs are coming in and the most fish are harvested.
The sockeye season here was shut down well never really opened this year do to the extremely low numbers and millions of missing fish. thats probably why your having a hard time finding any
Quote from: leftcoast smoker on January 19, 2010, 10:24:41 AM
The sockeye season here was shut down well never really opened this year do to the extremely low numbers and millions of missing fish. thats probably why your having a hard time finding any
Yeah Left is right. The Sockeye's in B.C. are all but wiped out. They get a few here and the price is a premium but as far as a commercial fishery I think it's down the tube.
I personally like to use the Chums for smoking as they are not as thick in the body and smoke better. And they are cheap too. But the flavour of a smoked Sockeye's is awesome. Pinks smoke up real nice too but I have a slight stigma to them and find it hard to touch them since my days on the commercial trollers.
pinks smoke up real nice too but I have a slight stigma to them and find it hard to touch them since my days on the commercial trollers.
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sounds like it could be a funny story care to share?,
I smoke pinks all the time usually pretty easy to come by and cheap to buy still taste great when done and everyone always compliment
LCS
First time I've seen Atlantic described as oilier than Reds...not that I doubt the report, it's just different than my own experience. Reds and Kings (Sockeye/Chinook) up here are at the top of the "oily" list and highly prized because of that. As Q describes so well, Chum (Dog) and Pink (Humpy) are much lower in oil.....IF you can get them locally there??? While I don't know the market movement from catch to UK market, Sockeye are normally the June run of the season up here, closely following May Kings and mixed in a bit with early Pinks.
I see that BC suffered considerably in the Sockeye run last year, especially the Fraser River, with some blaming the Georgia Strait fish farms for sea lice infestation killing wild salmon fry. http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/ Most already know what I think of fish farming! :P >:( :( :'(
Alaska didn't do that bad Sockeye-wise, according to most reports, e.g.; "11 January, 2010~...What remains unchanged is the health of Alaska's sockeye fisheries. According to the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), the Bristol Bay sockeye fishery, which accounts for two-thirds to three-quarters of the state's total sockeye catch, yielded 30.9 million fish this year — the seventh largest haul on record." SeafoodSource.com
It's not that great of a story. Basicly I don't like the smell of their guts when you clean them. If you have ever cleaned the 4 species you would likely agree that the stomach of a pink has a distinct odour more so than the others especially if they are eating krill which is their main food source. And if you then have to clean up to 1600 a day you would not care for them much. But they are good to eat. And I am starting to be able to buy them again after 28 years. One thing you will never see me do is spend money on farmed atlantic fish, Kummok I have your back on this for sure. If I was on the eastcoast and someone caught a live one right in front of me ot of the ocean and then cooked it right there I would try it, but I tried it once and one bite was enough for me. If I want to take drugs I will go to the doctor.
Expat--the downfall of BC sockeye runs is enough to make you cry. I used to make a lot of money off them 25 years ago, fishing commercially. In fact, I paid the down payment on my first house with sockeye money. When I stopped commercial fishing I still used to get lots of sockeye sports fishing as they used to run right past my house on their way to the Fraser River. Now it seems fish farms, (sealice from the farmed fish get on the juvenile salmon as they are going by on the way out to sea--it kills them) ocean mortality and warmer summer weather than we used to have that heats up the rivers up to the point where the returning adults can't make the spawning trip, have led to the ruining of the run. I'm glad to hear the Bristol Bay runs in Alaska are still healthy. (It's ironic that I am glad for the Bristol runs as we used to hope that their run was not so good. It was earlier than ours and therefore we were hoping the Japanese market would not be flooded and we'd get a good price.) As for your original question, I'd wait until July when the Alaskan run is finished and see what comes to your market over there.
T2
Thanks for all the responses, very informative.
It's pretty hard to find anything other than Atlantic over here.... and as I mentioned the only time I have ever seen Sockeye was in Costco.
My wife is from Steveston, BC, and we often wander along the docks there as the fishing boats come in. I wonder if next time I'm there I could somehow bring a bunch of salmon back? Flash frozen and appropriately packaged, it should arrive ok.
I'll have to keep looking here in the UK, and in the meantime settle for Atlantic. Not a bad thing... just now my preferences have been "tweaked" :)
You should be able to buy frozen fish from a freezer boat. They are frozen within hours of being caught and are very good quality. Then pack them in and styrofoam shipping cooler and fly them home. They should make the trip no problem.
Here's a local direct-from-the-fisherman I buy from in Seattle at the farmers markets (where they have a stall) or at their boat moored at Fisherman's Terminal.
(http://www.lokifish.com/img/banner.gif)
Loki Fish Co. (http://www.lokifish.com/)
Hiya Kummok ---
always appreciated your "farming' graphic and adhere to that. BUT did you hear about this company that is farming salmon in freshwater and has been approved by the Monterey Bay Aquarium Fish Watch program?
Aquaseed Corp. SweetSpring branded freshwater farm raised salmon gets Monterey Bay Aquarium "Best Choice" (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coho-salmon-farming)
For those of us who are not inclined to be over-the-top tree-huggers but desire to support native wild fisheries, fisherman, and the N. American fishing industry - much like non-hunters who support Ducks Unlimited - this may be a good thing. I truly miss the days of the wild salmon in Puget Sound and the healthy fishing industry based nearby.
So 10lbs of Wild Pink Salmon for $98.34
~$10.00/lb - I haven't seen wild in our markets in months, and the last time I did it was $17.99/lb
but the Coho and Sockeyes are right up there with the $17.99 stuff.
Quote from: CB on January 20, 2010, 10:43:40 AM
Here's a local direct-from-the-fisherman I buy from in Seattle at the farmers markets (where they have a stall) or at their boat moored at Fisherman's Terminal.
CB, thanks for the link! My sister lives in Edmonds, WA just north of Seattle... so next time I'm there visiting her, (which should be this summer) I'll check it out!
I wish there was some way I could reliably get it shipped over here. I'm sure if I accepted the risk of loss, I could persuade them to do it, but I have no idea how much FedEx would charge and if it would be even allowed to personally import fish from North America.
Hey... turns out I am allowed to import 20kg :o :o of Salmon as long as it is for personal use!! It can either accompany me or be sent to me.... but the silly thing is that they use the gross weight of the entire package, and if the whole thing exceeds 20kg they will seize it all! A bit harsh I think.
they got to get their salmon somehow. They probably fill it with water just to make sure it's over weight so they can take it. Just kidding.
My sister lives in Edmonds, WA just north of Seattle... so next time I'm there visiting her, (which should be this summer) I'll check it out!
Too bad you weren't here in Edmonds the last couple weeks of August, there were about 3 Million pinks out in front of Edmonds, they run in odd years, I've still got about 15 in the freezer waiting to use in my new bradley And for those who don't care for Pinks, on my best day, I got 2 Pinks, 2 coho, had to release a 22" chinook, and the guy I took out got one coho, and at the end of the day, we lost another coho double.
Ok well cleaning 1600 after catching them and most of them between 5:00pm and 10:00pm then having to finish cleaning and icing them is a whole different ball game than catching them on a rod. I would love nothing more than to spend the day catching them pinks on a fly rod. In a stream,river but most of all in the salt chuck. But that is like comparing apples and turnips. ;D ;D :D :D
Actually, oddly enough I was on Lopez Island around that time.... but didn't go fishing! Put a few crab pots out though!
Just had a reply from the Loki Fish Company, and they are actually willing to ship to me in the UK! So, now just have to crunch some numbers and see what the actual cost will be. It'll probably make most of your eyes water, but remember I'm comparing with the cost of wild-caught fish here in the UK, so I've already got a big head start!
OK guys,
This is getting to be like a foreign language to us Brits, probably anyone east of Alberta and Idaho but not sure about that. Sockeye salmon is something we buy in cans produced in Canada which has been cooked so much you can eat the bones, not necessarily a good thing! We have salmon, either farmed or wild. What is the difference between sockeye, pinks, coho, and them other things and, not wishing to start an argument but, which is best?
Waltz.
Well Waltz that is a loaded question with a hair trigger. So I will tip toe on this. Sockeye is one of 5 subspecies of salmon. Fresh sockeye IMHO is the best of the bunch with Coho running a very close second and neither should be put in a can. That said I buy canned sockeye often because if you have to eat canned salmon you might as well have the best. Canned pink(humpbacks) salmon (and this is just my bias. Story told elsewhere) is good for sandwiches or whatever and the best thing you could do with them. That said I have eaten BBQ'd pinks and they taste good. Coho, Sockeye and Spring(chinook,king) are the best for cooking,BBQ'ing. I worked on the fish boats for a time and I'll tell you, you cannot compare a salmon that comes out of the water and within minutes is in the oven or on the BBQ. And I have a hard time buying so called fresh fish from a market. I would much rather buy a frozen salmon because they are frozen within hours of being caught right at sea on the boats which have plate freezer systems on them. They then do a water dip on them called glazing which builds 3 or 4 layers of ice on the whole fish to protect them from freezer burn. Chum(dog salmon) are very good for smoking because they are not as thick and don't take as long to smoke, plus they take the smoke real well and they are cheap to buy. I did however smoke a Coho on my last batch(someone gave it to me) and it was the tastiest smoked salmon I ever had but I could never justifiy spending that kind of money on them for smoking. IMO it is ashame to put any salmon other than a Pink or a Chum in a can, but like I said they do it so I'll eat it.
Quarlow,
Thanks for the information, we only seem to have the 'atlantic salmon' here so the various varieties are a bit of a mystery. It must be good to have so much choice. I was aware of the hair trigger (one of the reasons for asking ;)), I think you handled it well.
Waltz
On the westcoast they (to much contraversy) farm Atlantic salmon. I tried it once and I will never eat a farm raised fish again. They actually put dye in the feed to make it look more of the same colour as Pacific salmon. I would like to see what fresh caught from the Atlantic ocean would taste like.
Quote from: ExpatCanadian on January 22, 2010, 02:33:40 AM
Actually, oddly enough I was on Lopez Island around that time.... but didn't go fishing! Put a few crab pots out though!
Just had a reply from the Loki Fish Company, and they are actually willing to ship to me in the UK! So, now just have to crunch some numbers and see what the actual cost will be. It'll probably make most of your eyes water, but remember I'm comparing with the cost of wild-caught fish here in the UK, so I've already got a big head start!
Hope it works out. These are really direct from the fishermen sales...When they boat is in port, the guys are at the dock or the farmer's market to sell it. When they are fishing, family and friends take their place. Local fancy restuarant chefs wax poetically over their fish and charge big time in the restaurants for it. I just walk over to the boat and say "Hi, uh...can I have a couple sides please?"
Quote from: Quarlow on January 22, 2010, 12:26:36 PM
On the westcoast they (to much contraversy) farm Atlantic salmon. I tried it once and I will never eat a farm raised fish again. They actually put dye in the feed to make it look more of the same colour as Pacific salmon. I would like to see what fresh caught from the Atlantic ocean would taste like.
I so agree about the west coast farmed salmon - I'm grateful to be living in an area where some commercial fisheries still thrive and close to Alaska with so much air traffic that it is flown fresh each day and is in local markets.
BTW - did you see this about some new ideas for farming fish?
Quote from: CB on January 20, 2010, 10:50:16 AM
Hiya Kummok ---
always appreciated your "farming' graphic and adhere to that. BUT did you hear about this company that is farming salmon in freshwater and has been approved by the Monterey Bay Aquarium Fish Watch program?
Aquaseed Corp. SweetSpring branded freshwater farm raised salmon gets Monterey Bay Aquarium "Best Choice" (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coho-salmon-farming)
For those of us who are not inclined to be over-the-top tree-huggers but desire to support native wild fisheries, fisherman, and the N. American fishing industry - much like non-hunters who support Ducks Unlimited - this may be a good thing. I truly miss the days of the wild salmon in Puget Sound and the healthy fishing industry based nearby.
I've always enjoyed using farmed rainbow trout, lobster and prawns when in Hawaii...but this could be a good thing for improving fish farming while the wild stocks replenish.
Almost all the salmon we get here is farmed Atlantic, sometimes locally produced, sometimes from Norway who have a big salmon farming industry which can flood the market. You have to pay big money to get a wild fish, as CanadianExpat said, and they are so scarce that sports fishermen on the rivers, where most of them are caught, are told they have to return any they catch to conserve the stocks, they are sometimes allowed to keep the first one only. So if it wasn't for farmed salmon we in the UK would hardly ever taste it. Not an ideal situation but better than no salmon at all.
It seems that, although Kummok and I and lots of other people don't agree with it, fish farming is going to be the only way of providing enough fish to meet the demand. I realize this could be another hair trigger subject but debate is good for the mind ::).
Waltz
Sorry, I have to correct myself. I said market in my post and I should have said "grocery store". Markets tend to have fresher everything as they typically buy as much local as possible. We don't have a lot of markets around Vancouver and the ones we do have you wouldn't catch me near on a weekend. I really hate crowds and rude people.
CB I did see that about the landbased farms. Now if they could somehow feed them fresh food they would have a better quality salmon worth eating. I know I am spoiled over here but when you have eaten wild all your life your taste gets set and it's hard to change "it ain't like momma fixed it".
Always willing to try something new CB but I have my doubts about the freshwater farmed salmon...hope they wouldn't suffer the same lack of taste as freshwater shrimp??? Interesting read at that link though....especially "Richie"! I'm a big believer in sustainable aquaculture however my taste buds always get the priority vote, with my own personal preference being that I'll go without before going inferior?!?!?
Q is right...."What's the best salmon" is like asking for the "best chili"! :-\ My take on my own taste can be found at:http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=4216.0
The only thing I'd add to those remarks is Chum salmon (carefully selected!) is also a good choice for smoking, on the dry side.
Quote from: CB on January 20, 2010, 10:50:16 AM
Hiya Kummok ---
always appreciated your "farming' graphic and adhere to that. BUT did you hear about this company that is farming salmon in freshwater and has been approved by the Monterey Bay Aquarium Fish Watch program?
Aquaseed Corp. SweetSpring branded freshwater farm raised salmon gets Monterey Bay Aquarium "Best Choice" (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coho-salmon-farming)
For those of us who are not inclined to be over-the-top tree-huggers but desire to support native wild fisheries, fisherman, and the N. American fishing industry - much like non-hunters who support Ducks Unlimited - this may be a good thing. I truly miss the days of the wild salmon in Puget Sound and the healthy fishing industry based nearby.
More info on this CB, from local commercial fisherchick/writer for local paper... (also just posted this under separate topic)
'
SEAWATCH' by Cristy Fry http://homernews.com/seawatch/
...Seafood Watch, one of the best-known sustainable seafood advisory lists, has lent its first-ever stamp of approval to a farmed salmon operation in Rochester, Wash.
The farming practices of AquaSeed corporation's SweetSpring salmon farm include raising the fish in onshore tanks, which eliminates the hazards of large-scale escapement and transference of sea lice to wild populations, and containing fish waste, as well as feeding the salmon a more mixed diet, such as poultry, rather than catching wild fish and turning them into pellets for farmed fish.
That traditional diet for farmed fish has led to some alarming news lately. Recent studies have shown that rats fed fish oil from farmed salmon developed insulin resistance, obesity and other related health issues.
In the study, adult male rats were fed for 28 days either crude or refined fish oil obtained from farmed Atlantic salmon carcasses. The crude fish oil contained the levels of Persistent Organic Pollutants that people are typically exposed to after eating the fish.
Adult rats exposed to the crude fish oil -- which contained the POPs mixture -- put on belly fat and developed insulin resistance and liver disease. The rats could not regulate fat properly. They had higher levels of cholesterol and the fatty acids triacylglycerol and diacylglycerol in their livers.
In contrast, none of these changes were seen in the rats that ate the refined fish oil without the POPs.
The production level of the Rochester fish farm, which is raising fresh-water Pacific coho salmon, is limited, but hopefully just a sign of things to come.
Sheila Bowman, senior outreach manager for Seafood Watch at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, said, "Our advice is still for 99 percent of us out there to avoid farmed salmon. This species that's coming out in Washington state is going to be very regional in its distribution and it's not something that's going to be in the (general) marketplace for at least a few years."
Cristy Fry has commercial fished in Homer since 1978. She also designs and builds gear for the industry. She currently longlines for halibut and gillnets salmon in upper Cook Inlet aboard the F/V Realist. She can be reached at [email protected].
Kodiak fisherman get .10$ per pound for pinks. It is a crime to pay that price.
Sockeye running in the Fraser River, biggest returns since 1913!...So far I have taken 5 sockeye (4 in the freezer, one in the tummy) and I am going again tomorrow!
Were are you going? Are you fishing from shore or from a boat. I went out last week for a couple of hours and got skunked. :( Would sure like some socks for the smoker.
Ross
I've pretty much filled the freezer with sockeye over the past 3 weeks here on the island. The smoker's been going, the vacuum sealer, and the canner--what an awesome fishing season this has been!
T2
My buddy from work limits out everytime he goes. He is going to start filling my freezer next.
I never got out fishing this season ......but did go down to fisherman's wharf on False Creek (Vancouver) and grabbed five fish for $100.00...another opening on Monday.