BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Recipe Discussions => Rubs and Sauces => Topic started by: SnellySmokesEm on January 23, 2011, 06:44:08 am

Title: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SnellySmokesEm on January 23, 2011, 06:44:08 am
Got a Box from TMB yesterday with some gun powder seasoning!  This stuff is gonna rock!  Thanks Tommy!
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/matts887/IMG00361-20110123-0838.jpg)
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on January 23, 2011, 07:38:38 am
Test Rocket has some on the way to me!  Starne's sauce is on the way to him. :D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on January 24, 2011, 06:33:35 pm
Gunpowder received today!  This stuff is crazy good!!!!!

Thanks TR!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: kinyo on January 25, 2011, 05:03:08 am
What does it taste like?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: FLBentRider on January 25, 2011, 05:18:22 am
What does it taste like?

It's kind of hard to describe. I'm going to put some on some burgers tonight.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SnellySmokesEm on January 25, 2011, 04:20:20 pm
What does it taste like?

It's kind of hard to describe. I'm going to put some on some burgers tonight.
It is hard to describe.  I have only used it on mies breaded chicken wings.  On and no grill for me tonight Randy, we are getting pounded by rain here on the west coast...
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: FLBentRider on January 25, 2011, 04:22:40 pm
On and no grill for me tonight Randy, we are getting pounded here on the east coast...

I'll assume you mean West coast.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: OU812 on January 25, 2011, 05:09:19 pm
On and no grill for me tonight Randy, we are getting pounded here on the east coast...

I'll assume you mean West coast.

and I assume you are talikng about the weather.  ;D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SnellySmokesEm on January 26, 2011, 07:17:21 am
I stand corrected!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: steve-o on January 26, 2011, 10:40:02 am
On and no grill for me tonight Randy, we are getting pounded here on the east coast...

I'll assume you mean West coast.

and I assume you are talikng about the weather.  ;D

Hahaha  ;D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SnellySmokesEm on January 26, 2011, 12:17:17 pm
I cant even blame it on the alcohol because I wasnt even drinking.... :)
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TMB on January 26, 2011, 12:29:58 pm
I'm glad you like the gun powder, good stuff.  10.5 ordered a big bag of the stuff.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SnellySmokesEm on January 26, 2011, 12:47:51 pm
Quote
10.5 ordered a big bag of the stuff.

Why am I not surprised...  ;D  Will we be seeing in an upcoming newsletter?  ???
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TMB on January 26, 2011, 01:01:05 pm
Quote
10.5 ordered a big bag of the stuff.

Why am I not surprised...  ;D  Will we be seeing in an upcoming newsletter?  ???
Not sure??   I know he called the store where we get it from and they wouldn't send any out so only Tenpoint5 knows that question.
He ordered a 5 lb bag of the stuff and I hope to pick it up tonight on the way to church.   

WOW whats shipping gonna be on that?  LOL
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on January 26, 2011, 01:22:09 pm
Quote
He ordered a 5 lb bag of the stuff and I hope to pick it up tonight on the way to church.   
WOW whats shipping gonna be on that?  LOL
For God's sake don't tell them it's a 5 pound bag of gunpowder! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on January 26, 2011, 01:29:28 pm
If you ship it via the USPS it should be $10.50 in one of them if it fits it ships boxes. After calling four different stores I did finally get one to say they would send it to me but they needed to talk to the manager first. Of course none of them would tell me what was in it. As for it showing up in the newsletter??? Whats a newsletter?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on January 26, 2011, 01:34:02 pm
You tasted this stuff Chris?  Man, it's good.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on January 26, 2011, 01:56:35 pm
You tasted this stuff Chris?  Man, it's good.
Yes I have!! That's why I am ordering a 5 pound bag
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: GusRobin on January 26, 2011, 03:01:17 pm
If worse comes to worse you can send them USPS priority mail. It should fit in a medium flat rate box for $10.75
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TestRocket on January 26, 2011, 03:18:31 pm
Man, Tommy, Gus and I may have missed out on National Distributorship opportunity here?   ;)
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: GusRobin on January 26, 2011, 03:19:49 pm
need someone to try to clone it
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on January 26, 2011, 04:32:18 pm
need someone to try to clone it

The thought has crossed my  mind, But the flavors are really complex and hard to determine. Heck 10.5 1/4 says it tastes like chicken to her!!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: GusRobin on January 26, 2011, 05:40:55 pm
The Ingredients listed:

Gunpowder: "salt, MSG, dehydrated onion, garlic spices, natural flavor, black pepper, spice extractives, lessthan 2% tricalcium phosphate, added as an anti-caking agent".

Now your guess as to what the hell "natural flavor" and "spice extractives" are as good as any.
Title: Re: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: NePaSmoKer on January 26, 2011, 05:52:49 pm
Does it have charcoal powder in it?

Sent from my HTC Liberty using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on January 27, 2011, 07:57:38 am
Don't know if it has charcoal powder in it or not but it's black as charcoal.  It has to have something to add the black color to it as it doesn't have an overabundance of black pepper in it.  As dark as mine is, if it were all black pepper making it that dark, it would be inedible. 

One thing I'm betting it does have in it is Hickory Smoke Powder and that's not black either..
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: jiggerjams on January 27, 2011, 09:38:36 am
Hmm maybe black mustard seed ground?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: squirtthecat on January 27, 2011, 09:50:40 am

This (http://books.google.com/books?id=dfp4b3F0598C&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=spice+extractives&source=bl&ots=eHFGPnT3og&sig=Y1OqsyAkHIVbi1iDEff-5VGKfz0&hl=en&ei=Qa9BTaeCKYP58AblrKnwAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=spice%20extractives&f=false) is interesting.  You take a spice (like black pepper) and boil it in water.   The resulting oil smells like black pepper, but doesn't have the bite.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SL2010 on January 30, 2011, 06:31:34 am
Got a Box from TMB yesterday with some gun powder seasoning!  This stuff is gonna rock!  Thanks Tommy!
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/matts887/IMG00361-20110123-0838.jpg)
  i found this on line does it seem like what you got
GUN POWDER SEASONING
By Steve Elke

3 tablespoons Chili Powder
2 ½ tablespoons Paprika
2 tablespoons Salt
2 tablespoons Garlic Powder
1 tablespoon Ground Black Pepper
1 tablespoon Onion Powder
1 tablespoon Ground Cayenne Pepper
1 tablespoon Ground Chipotle Chili Pepper
1 tablespoon Ground Oregano
1 tablespoon Ground Thyme

i am trying to find a clone of it
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 09, 2011, 08:31:40 am
I haven't tasted the GP, but I have some thoughts based upon what has been described here and what I know about some other products used in the food service industry (e.g., restaurants).

There are three things that strike me about GP : MSG as the second ingredient, and the natural flavor, and finally price.

MSG - it is very unusual to see MSG as the second ingredient on a spice blend label.  Since the ingredients should be listed in order of weight percent, that suggests a fairly high level of MSG, certainly greater than 2%. 

Natural flavor - I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that the "natural flavor" is probably in the grill flavor category.  There are a number of flavor companies that produce flavor concentrates for the food prep industry.  Both Red Arrow and Kraft produce lines of natural grill flavors that are designed to emulate the flavor imparted by grilling.  Some of them get quite complex, adding specific smoke flavors, a seared taste note, grill scraping, etc.  as well as the base grill flavor.  The starting pint for many grill flavors is simply pyrolysis (controlled burning) of vegetable oils.  As an example of some of the flavors available, here is a link (http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?action=post;topic=20544.15;num_replies=27) to Red Arrow's Grill Flavor line;  a link to Kraft's Natural Grill Flavor line (http://www.kraftfoodingredients.com/eSource/Kraft/ecom/eSource/Kraft_sup_%c2%ae__sup__Natural_Grill_Flavors_sup_%c2%ae__sup_/p/_199.aspx?) and their Specialty Grill Flavor products (http://www.kraftfoodingredients.com/eSource/Kraft/ecom/eSource/Kraft_sup_%c2%ae__sup__Specialty_Grill_Flavors_sup_%c2%ae__sup_/p/_194.aspx?).

These kinds of intense flavor additives are so effective they are typically used at the well less than the 1% level.

A spice blend made by McCormick produced for and sold to the  food service industry (i.e., not the retail consumer) that uses "natural grill flavor" is their Char Broil and Grill Seasoning.  You can get the idea of what it's about here (http://www.spiceplace.com/mccormick_char_broil_grill_seasoning.php).

The combination of something like a grill flavor with a high level of MSG would likely give a fairly complex taste profile that would be hard to pick apart unless you are a flavorist.

Price - At $3.99/lb the price of GP is on the very cheap end of spice blends.  That suggests there isn't much of anything exotic or expensive in it.

As for charcoal - I doubt it.  I don't believe charcoal is approved for use as a direct food additive (activated charcoal is used as a filter medium in food processing).

Finally, since there are no color additives declared the black has to come from the other ingredients.

Here's a question for the AL crew - does the store make this stuff, or are they repackaging a blend they buy ?  The reason I ask is the label ingredients suggest a level of spice blending sophistication beyond what I would expect for a grocery store, and certainly not something likely done at the local store level.  Maybe you can find out a bit more by asking them where it's made ?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TTNuge on February 09, 2011, 08:42:35 am
Personally I am usually not too concerned about the use of MSG in certain things.  But having this listed as the second ingredient I'm wondering if I should be a bit more concerned than usual or not.

Also, wasn't there talk of trying to get a group buy going on this or at least the ability to order it direct?  I haven't had time to keep up on all the forum chatter so I apologize if that has been discussed elsewhere.

Thanks,
Trent
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on February 09, 2011, 09:14:27 am
Maybe I can help a little.  In another thread it was disclosed that the mysterious gunpowder rub being sold through Star Market is actually this stuff: www.sureshotsids.com

TMB was able to do a little recon and uncovered this info when he went to pick up 10.5's 5 pound order of the stuff.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 09, 2011, 09:29:02 am
O
Thanks, KyN - that helps a bit.

From another website, Sureshot Sid's described their product thusly,

Sure Shot Sids' Gunpowder Seasoning is a meat rub that gives you the taste of Charcoal grilled flavors used indoors or on the grill for added flavors. It's the Seasoning Fine Steak Houses use to give that grilled flavor to their steaks. It can be used on almost any food product for exceptional taste. It is not hot in flavor! But it will explode the flavors in your meats, seafoods or vegetables. Excellent product to use on wild game meats and sausages. Check our Web Site out and see what our customer say about us and our product

Based on that I am more inclined to think they are using a grill flavor additive.

Unless you are a food scientist or a food/spice manufacturing company (or have a friend who is) it's unlikely you'll be able to get your hands on anything like those flavor additives.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: classicrockgriller on February 09, 2011, 09:47:18 am
of the additives u have seen, which one do u think will work.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 09, 2011, 11:59:01 am
I've looked everywhere I can think of and I can't find any source of "grill flavor" in the retail market.  The only ones I can find are for food manufacturers, and the quantities tend to be on the order of 50 lbs.

Maybe JH could help you out, or someone in a similar position.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 09, 2011, 03:27:01 pm
  i found this on line does it seem like what you got
GUN POWDER SEASONING
By Steve Elke

3 tablespoons Chili Powder
2 ½ tablespoons Paprika
2 tablespoons Salt
2 tablespoons Garlic Powder
1 tablespoon Ground Black Pepper
1 tablespoon Onion Powder
1 tablespoon Ground Cayenne Pepper
1 tablespoon Ground Chipotle Chili Pepper
1 tablespoon Ground Oregano
1 tablespoon Ground Thyme

i am trying to find a clone of it

OK I am working on a clone of this and have been in contact with BLSH to compare notes. As Eric is also working on a clone from a more scientific approach. Unlike my wet finger, stick in powder, stick on tongue approach. My clone comes just about as close in flavor as I think The average guy is going to be able to produce. My clone is more red than black but the flavor is pretty close. 10.5 1/4 said its good but it doesn't have the "Bang" that the original does. So there's hope for me I will be trying it on some hamburgers tonight to do a side by side cooking comparison.

I started with the basic recipe above and made adjustments from there in red.

GUN POWDER SEASONING
By Steve Elke

3 tablespoons Chili Powder
2 ½ tablespoons Paprika
2 tablespoons Salt
2 tablespoons Garlic Powder
1 tablespoon Ground Black Pepper
1 tablespoon Onion Powder
1/2 tablespoon Ground Cayenne Pepper
1 tablespoon Ground Chipotle Chili Pepper
1 tablespoon Ground Oregano
1 tablespoon Ground Thyme
2 tablespoon Wyler's Chicken bouillon granules (Grind to a powder with Spice Grinder or Mortar and Pestle)
2 tablespoon Celery Salt
3 tablespoon Accent Flavor Enhancer

Like I said this is pretty close with the wet finger test. I will report back after supper.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on February 09, 2011, 04:25:46 pm
10.5, you've been doing some work on this for sure.  Haven't used Accent in a long time.  Isn't that essentially MSG?  Just can't remember for sure.  Thanks for doing the lab work!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 09, 2011, 04:57:26 pm
10.5, you've been doing some work on this for sure.  Haven't used Accent in a long time.  Isn't that essentially MSG?  Just can't remember for sure.  Thanks for doing the lab work!

Yep that's what it is!!

Now this evening I put my clone on the burgers I made for supper. Now since 10.5 1/4 said my clone didn't have the "Bang" that GP had. I pulled a fast one on her. She got the clone. She asked which one was on her burger. I LIED and told her it was GP (The Black One). I like this one better than the one you made Dad was the comment she made after tasting the burger. I had two burgers and dressed them exactly the same, Katsoup, Mustard, Pickle relish, Onion and American cheese. I couldn't tell the difference between the two burgers. So as far as I am concerned, This is a close enough clone for me.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: classicrockgriller on February 09, 2011, 05:16:33 pm
Good job Chris.

Now clone the red stuff. ;D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 09, 2011, 05:26:42 pm
Good job Chris.

Now clone the red stuff. ;D

Never tried the red stuff!! They probably order somebody else's rub in bulk and sell it as their own as well.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: OU812 on February 09, 2011, 05:52:11 pm
I kinda think it has some worcestershire powder in it too.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 09, 2011, 06:05:40 pm
Talked with Chris (Tenpoint5) and we compared notes.  I took a very different approach.  Mine is based upon the label ingredients and what I suspect is being used (grill flavor) based upon what little I know about some food service products.  Here is my feeble chemist's attempt to produce a clone.  It is very feeble as I don't have a reference by which to judge.  What I plan to do is send it to 10.5 and let his tasting panel evaluate this first trial.

The big challenge is to get grill flavor.  The very basic versions of that stuff are made by pyrolizing vegetable oil.  Since that isn't practical in the home (think controlled grease fire) I had to get creative. A common tool use in the spice blending trade is to add a vegetable oil to blends at the 1% level to prevent separation.  So I thought I could use that idea to coat a veg oil onto the salt, burn it in the oven and then use that salt to make a clone.

The drill is as follows - 250 g of Morton Kosher salt + 7.5 g (about 3 tsp) of Wesson Best Blend (canola + soybean) oil, blend it in a KA mixer on speed 2 for 3 minutes.  At that level, 3% oil) it is surface saturated as seen by traces of oil remaining on the bowl.

The coated salt was then placed in a saute pan and oven roasted at 500 - 550 °F in a convection oven for 3 hours.  That gave this as the salt.

(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll27/divedaddy/Smoke2011/Salt01.jpg)

A few pulses through a blade grinder and it looked like this

(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll27/divedaddy/Smoke2011/Salt02.jpg)

Flavor of the "roasted" salt is very mild grilled flavor.

Now to blending.  I like to target 2% salt to meat by weight.  For MSG I looked at Accent's recommendations, which amounts to 0.4%  (MSG) to meat by weight.  That gave me a ratio of 20% MSG to salt. The rest is looking at relative amounts to salt of flavor spices in other blends, like Montreal Steak Seasoning.  After all the head work, this is the blend mix I concocted:

Treated salt = 100 g
MSG (Accent) = 20 g
Granulated onion (Leggs) = 15 g
Granulated garlic (Leggs) = 10 g
Black Pepper , ground) = 8 g
Jalapeno powder = 6 g  (Thanks CRG! - didn't know it, but I was out)
Veg oil = 1.5 g (~ 1/2 tsp)

Put all the dry in a KA mixer with the paddle, speed 2 for about a minute, add the veg oil and continue on speed 2 for about 3 minutes.  Here is what you get

(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll27/divedaddy/Smoke2011/Blend01.jpg)

I would describe the taste as meaty/salty/lightly grilled.  I would like to have a more pronounced grill flavor.  Doing that the way I did would probably take a second trip of treating the salt and back through the oven, which is more than I am willing to give it at this point.

If Chris is up for it, I'll send it to him and let his professional taste panel give it a whirl.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 09, 2011, 07:33:46 pm
Looks interesting Eric. Send it on up I will put it the testing panel and see what she says. I will let you know what the results are.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on February 10, 2011, 07:18:20 am
Awesome work guys!  Interesting to see the different yet closely the same results from two different guys with different backgrounds.

Thanks a lot Chris and Eric. 
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 10, 2011, 08:04:31 am
Eric Translate this into English for Me, would you Please!!!

Aroma components of an oil-based grill flavoring by direct thermal desorption-gas chromatography-olfactometry and sample dilution analysis.

Webb TE, Cadwallader KR.

Department of Food Science and Technology, Mississippi Agricultural Experiment Station, Mississippi State University, USA.
Abstract

Grill flavorings are a convenient way for food processors to impart grill-like flavor to meat products that have not been grilled. In this study a commercially available oil-based processed grill flavoring was analyzed by direct thermal desorption (DTD)-gas chromatography-olfactometry (GCO) and DTD-GC-mass spectrometry (MS). Sample mass dilution analysis-GCO was used to indicate which compounds had the greatest impact on the overall aroma of the sample. Major aroma contributors included 1-octen-3-one, 2-methoxyphenol, and (E)-2-nonenal. Minor contributors were (E)-2-decenal and 2,4-decadienal. Other major contributors, characterized as having grill aroma notes, were unidentified. Excluding the possibility of artifact formation from the thermal degradation of fatty acid hydroperoxides, DTD functioned well as a GCO technique, but poorly as a qualitative GC-MS technique.

PMID: 11548153 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: classicrockgriller on February 10, 2011, 08:05:47 am
That is some great work Eric.

If the "charred seasoning" can be figured out, I will

talk to JH about the chances of him ordering some.

He may be interested in some himself.

Wish I had known you didn't have some, would have

brought you a sample of both kinds.

It (GP) looks like pic #2.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: jiggerjams on February 10, 2011, 08:49:06 am
Great experiments guys. Thanks for sharing. Following this thread is capturing.
Very very interesting. It will be great to hear the feedback Chris is able to give on the Eric product taste test.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 10, 2011, 01:40:19 pm
That is some great work Eric.

If the "charred seasoning" can be figured out, I will

talk to JH about the chances of him ordering some.

He may be interested in some himself.

Wish I had known you didn't have some, would have

brought you a sample of both kinds.

It (GP) looks like pic #2.

I think it's a step in the right direction.  A little time and a few more experiments and I think we can come up with a good clone.

If JH can source us some "grill flavor", just the basic stuff, a pound would go a long way.  He has so many blends he may already be using it in something.  Of course he might also call us fools and admonish us to get back to the real grill.

The one other retail seasoning I know it is used in the Weber Gourmet Burger Seasoning, which is made by Tone's.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 10, 2011, 01:56:34 pm
Eric Translate this into English for Me, would you Please!!!

Aroma components of an oil-based grill flavoring by direct thermal desorption-gas chromatography-olfactometry and sample dilution analysis.

Webb TE, Cadwallader KR.

Department of Food Science and Technology, Mississippi Agricultural Experiment Station, Mississippi State University, USA.
Abstract

Grill flavorings are a convenient way for food processors to impart grill-like flavor to meat products that have not been grilled. In this study a commercially available oil-based processed grill flavoring was analyzed by direct thermal desorption (DTD)-gas chromatography-olfactometry (GCO) and DTD-GC-mass spectrometry (MS). Sample mass dilution analysis-GCO was used to indicate which compounds had the greatest impact on the overall aroma of the sample. Major aroma contributors included 1-octen-3-one, 2-methoxyphenol, and (E)-2-nonenal. Minor contributors were (E)-2-decenal and 2,4-decadienal. Other major contributors, characterized as having grill aroma notes, were unidentified. Excluding the possibility of artifact formation from the thermal degradation of fatty acid hydroperoxides, DTD functioned well as a GCO technique, but poorly as a qualitative GC-MS technique.

PMID: 11548153 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

That's kind of cool stuff.  What they are doing is using gas chromatography (GC) to separate the various compounds (of probably a hundred or more) in a commercial grill flavor sample.  The GC separation stream is then being analyzed by two separate methods: (1.) a human sniffing port (olfactometry ) where a human can sniff the aromas of each component as it elutes and comment on their sensation, and (2.) by mass spectrometry which enables the determination of what the individual component in the grill flavor mixture actually is.  Based on those analyses and some progressive dilution experiments they are able to determine which specific compounds in the grill flavor are primarily responsible for the aroma of the flavor.  The caveat is this addresses the aroma side, not the flavor or taste side directly.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 10, 2011, 02:46:21 pm
See I do some investigative things when I am sitting here on the computer doing nothing
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TestRocket on February 10, 2011, 02:59:59 pm
The snow melted and I went out to get a hair cut and on the way is a Star Market. So LumpyDVC don’t break out the chemistry set just yet. Your rub will be in the mail soon! 

You guys are amazing!  ;D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 10, 2011, 04:21:43 pm
See I do some investigative things when I am sitting here on the computer doing nothing

That ain't doing nothing!

Since you're in an investigative mood, try these

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=hkUuAAAAEBAJ&dq=4571342

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=lQo0AAAAEBAJ&dq=4820538

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=YFcKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6495184
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 10, 2011, 04:50:37 pm
See I do some investigative things when I am sitting here on the computer doing nothing

That ain't doing nothing!

Since you're in an investigative mood, try these

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=hkUuAAAAEBAJ&dq=4571342

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=lQo0AAAAEBAJ&dq=4820538

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=YFcKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6495184

Ahhh That would be Science stuff and that is your world. They speak English in mine!! The most I have to pay is $5 for words in my world you can keep them 50 dollar words that it takes ten minute to pronounce.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Tenpoint5 on February 10, 2011, 04:57:37 pm
The clone on a ribeye is good. It aint really good just good. If I had more steak on my plate it might have been really good. The steak I had was gone before I could get a good and proper taste analysis. However that just means I will have to try it again. I think I will add more of the Accent though to get more of a Pop in the flavor. The Clone is good like it is but I want to tweak it some more and add to the flavor profile. For me this is still a work in progress.

If any of you that have GP would be kind enough to try the clone and give some feedback I would appreciate it. Keep in mind I want to make this clone out of things I think most everyone has in their cupboard.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 17, 2011, 06:54:27 pm
Got a package this week from the Distinguished Gentleman from Alabama, GusRobin

(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll27/divedaddy/Smoke2011/GRPackage.jpg)

Very generous packs of both the Gunpowder Seasoning and Star Market Meat Rub (aka Red Gunpowder).  Many thanks, Gus!

It didn't take me long to tear into the GP to see if I was close.  I think I was on the right track, but missed the mark by a good bit.  At about the same time that I was getting my first taste of real GP, Chris (Tenpoint5) was sending me pics and notes on his testing.  After both the two way tasting and comparing notes I planned version 2.  Here we go.

The things I need to change were get more grill flavor, back off the MSG  a tad, back off the onion, garlic and black pepper, and eliminate the ground Jalapeno powder.  It would be pretty simple, except for the grill flavor, which I can't source, so I improvised.

To get more grill flavor I modified my "grilled salt" by using Morton Canning & Pickling salt (finer grain, more surface area), changing the veg oil to pure soybean oil and doubling the amount of oil, and increasing the temp to 600 - 650 °F with indirect heat on my gas grill and grilling for 35 min's.  The canola component in the first version gives a slightly acrid note in the grilled salt that I wanted to avoid.  If ever you decide to try this, do it outside.  Just trust me on that one.  The new salt  formulation is as follows:

300 g pure salt
18 g soybean oil (Crisco Pure Vegatable oil)

Using a KA mixer I mixed the oil with the salt for ~ 5 min on speed 2, spread it in a SS roasting pan, put it in a preheated 650 °F gas grill.  The salt was well mixed every 10 min's, grilled for a total of 35 min's, then the pan was removed from the heat, covered tightly with aluminum foil and allowed to cool for ~ 1 hr.  This gives a finished grilled salt with at least 2.0% weight gain from charred veg oil.

After a bunch of back and forth tasting, sniffing, and adjusting, here is the final formulation for GP clone version 2:

Grilled salt (v2)  300 grams
MSG (Accent)     50 grams
Onion, granulated  15 grams
Garlic, granulated  15 grams
Black pepper, ground  15 grams
Savory, ground  6 grams
Smoke Flavor (Leggs 127)  6 grams

Soybean oil  3.2 grams

Combine everything except the soybean oil in a KA stand mixer fitted with the paddle and mix on speed 1 for 2 min's, then on speed 2 for 5 mins.  Add the vegetable oil in droplets across the top and then continued mixing on speed 2 for another 5 min's.  Transfer finished blend to an airtight container.

Flavor on this version is very close, but to me still lacks in the grill flavor notes, which isn't surprising given that I am improvising for grill flavor that I cannot buy.

Visually the clone is noticeably coarser than the original, even with the salt granules.  I could run the clone through a blade grinder in small batches, but I doubt it would change much of anything other than the appearance, which I don't believe is all that critical.

Here is a comparson of the original from GR (left) with the new clone (right).

(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll27/divedaddy/Smoke2011/V02Comp.jpg)

Samples will go out to the sensory evaluation panel tomorrow (GusRobin, Tenpoint5, and CRG) and hopefully there will be some feeback next week.

Honestly, I think this is probably about as close as someone at home can come up with.  A major key to GP's flavor is the grill flavor, and that just isn't available (yet) in the retail market.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: jiggerjams on February 17, 2011, 08:06:09 pm
Sounds like you are on point to me. Way to go!!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Shasta bob on February 17, 2011, 08:41:50 pm
Just where does a person have to go to get some of this Gunpowder seasoning when you live on the west coast? Can it be ordered?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: classicrockgriller on February 17, 2011, 08:52:34 pm
www.sureshotsids.com

the red is sure shot sids chipotle
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on February 18, 2011, 03:30:47 am
The red stuff I got from GusRobin is labeled "Star Meat Rub"

Ingredients:  Salt, Paprika, MSG, Onion & Garlic, Smoke Flavor, Spice Extractives.

The flavor is somewhat like GP minus the grill flavor notes plus some paprika.

I was going to work on this today, but my sick kid has presented me with a nasty cold/infaction that has flared up this morning so I don't trust my taste/smell apparatus.  This will need to wait a week or so.

For both GP and the Star Meat Rub the workshorse components are salt and MSG.  If you just used them in ~ 5-6:1 ratio by weight you would have 90+% of what either is bringing to the flavor game.  When you use them in grill cooking most of the other stuff will be lost.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: CraigJS on April 30, 2011, 06:49:44 pm
Could the flavor that you are looking for be Alderwood smoked sea salt? Smokey flavored, google "Salish" smoked sea salt.. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: watchdog56 on May 02, 2011, 11:07:28 am
Your ingredient "smoke flavor" is that liquid smoke?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: BShaggy on May 25, 2011, 11:35:22 am
Just stumbling around here, trying to read all I can...this experiment is intriguing.

I stumbled onto this:
http://www.kraftfoodingredients.com/eSource/Kraft/ecom/eSource/Kraft_sup_%c2%ae__sup__Natural_Grill_Flavors_sup_%c2%ae__sup_/p/_199.aspx? (http://www.kraftfoodingredients.com/eSource/Kraft/ecom/eSource/Kraft_sup_%c2%ae__sup__Natural_Grill_Flavors_sup_%c2%ae__sup_/p/_199.aspx?)

On the product list tab they list samples, but you have to have a login.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: sureshotsid on November 19, 2012, 12:48:56 pm
Just a little FYI, we manufacture Sure Shot Sid's Gunpowder Seasoning at JM Exotic Foods in Moody, AL. If you have any questions, need recipe idea's or where to purchase i am more than happy to help. The owner's sister sells the Gunpowder online at newenglandspices.com You can't find a better price online. There she has posted several recipe idea's and also sells other "Made in Alabama" products that we make.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: KyNola on November 19, 2012, 02:42:33 pm
Sureshotsid, welcome to the Forum.  Your Gunpowder Rub is a big hit here.  Hope to have you around here more.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TMB on November 19, 2012, 07:31:35 pm
Just a little FYI, we manufacture Sure Shot Sid's Gunpowder Seasoning at JM Exotic Foods in Moody, AL. If you have any questions, need recipe idea's or where to purchase i am more than happy to help. The owner's sister sells the Gunpowder online at newenglandspices.com You can't find a better price online. There she has posted several recipe idea's and also sells other "Made in Alabama" products that we make.
HI, wonder when you would join in  ;D ;D

Seems every since I tossed a pound of your rub into a Christmas box a few years back  this has been a big hit here and other site!  Killer Stuff  Roll Tide!

From north Alabama
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: OU812 on November 19, 2012, 09:53:52 pm
Yep,,,,,,,,,,,gun powder is some good stuff

We got some restaurants around here that brag they got the best "secret" seasoning

When you ask for some they wouldn't give up ,,,,,,cause its secret

I know know  ;D
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: sureshotsid on November 21, 2012, 11:06:19 am
Just a little FYI, we manufacture Sure Shot Sid's Gunpowder Seasoning at JM Exotic Foods in Moody, AL. If you have any questions, need recipe idea's or where to purchase i am more than happy to help.  You can order direct from us at jmexoticfoods.com and see other "Made in Alabama" products that we make. We have recipes as well, like mixing 1/2 tsp of Gunpowder Seasoning to 8 ounces of Sour Cream. Its an awsum dip! We even have a recipe for making a liquid marinade out of it. Happy Thanksgiving!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TMB on November 21, 2012, 06:19:56 pm
GunPowder makes killer jerky as well!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: OU812 on November 21, 2012, 06:22:47 pm
And a great addition to an injection fluid  8)
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Smokin Soon on November 21, 2012, 06:40:09 pm
For those of you that like to do your brats in a traditional beer onion bath before grilling, Gunpowder puts it over the top, hands down. I have never recieved so many positive comments on my brats before adding the Gunpowder.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: OU812 on November 21, 2012, 06:50:24 pm
For those of you that like to do your brats in a traditional beer onion bath before grilling, Gunpowder puts it over the top, hands down. I have never recieved so many positive comments on my brats before adding the Gunpowder.

What SS said!

I sprinkle a little more GP on the onions wile they are caramelizing too
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: SiFumar on November 21, 2012, 08:13:18 pm
For those of you that like to do your brats in a traditional beer onion bath before grilling, Gunpowder puts it over the top, hands down. I have never received so many positive comments on my brats before adding the Gunpowder.

Ok I haven't tried  the Gunpowder yet...but on my to order list.  Do you sprinkle on the brats? or add to the beer? How much?  We do brats at least 3x per month.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: WarezDaBeef on April 16, 2013, 11:37:22 am
BLSH, What is the reasoning behind essentially burning vegetable oil and salt to achieve a char/grill flavor? Could another solid be used instead of salt? Maybe you could increase the ratio of char/grill flavor without adding too much sodium? What else do you think could be used for the process?

I have been searching everywhere to obtain this char/grill flavor in both powder and paste form. Known companys that produce these flavorings are : Kraft, Summit Hill, and Red Arrow. None of these companys will sell to small business and require corporate verified accounts.

That said, I am willing to do some extensive testing with you. Bring me up to speed on what you have learned so far.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: RFT on August 16, 2013, 05:28:15 pm
Just ordered Original Gunpowder, Chipolte gunpower, and key lime mojo... that sounded interesting.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: TMB on August 18, 2013, 05:36:29 pm
Just ordered Original Gunpowder, Chipolte gunpower, and key lime mojo... that sounded interesting.
Good stuff your gonna be a happy camper!
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: RFT on August 19, 2013, 07:33:03 am
Just ordered Original Gunpowder, Chipolte gunpower, and key lime mojo... that sounded interesting.
Good stuff your gonna be a happy camper!

The Key Lime Mojo Im unsure on what I would use that on but I know do love key lime pie. :)
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: OU812 on August 20, 2013, 06:45:58 am

The Key Lime Mojo Im unsure on what I would use that on but I know do love key lime pie. :)


We love it on chicken
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: bigrick2 on April 17, 2014, 12:41:19 pm
 :)I haven't been on here in quite some time, but was ready with muse at some of the fella trying to duplicate the sureshotsids.com gunpowder seasoning and others we sell! Well, don't give up! However, in the meantime keep on buying it from us! We don't charge nearly what you are spending trying to reproduce this unique flavor and we blend it in 10# bulk containers so the cost isn't that bad.
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: CoreyMac on April 17, 2014, 02:46:55 pm
While we're on this subject. I'm heading to Spokane this summer for a holiday. Anybody know if there is a place to get some there? I would hate to be so close and not try.

Corey
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Northern_Hunting_Mom on April 19, 2014, 11:34:36 pm
Both my daughter and I react to MSG poorly, migraines are not fun. Is there a possibility of getting a blend without MSG and having it shipped to Canada?
Title: Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
Post by: Bigbirdoffroad on November 25, 2014, 05:28:33 am
Just finally got around to ordering some gunpowder. New England Spices had the cheapest price online no doubt!!! $9.99 for a 28oz.