BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Smoking Techniques => Curing => Topic started by: zoso1900 on March 18, 2012, 06:22:12 AM

Title: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 18, 2012, 06:22:12 AM
Hi. I've been making Italian sausages for several years now and hanging them to cure in the cold room. This year is the second time that my batch of sausages whiled curing the meat turns a brown color,  smell is still ok. I share the cold room with my dad's sopressata and he has opened the window for extended period of time during the day.

I was wondering if it's the air circulation or something else?

Thank you.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: 3rensho on March 18, 2012, 09:51:35 AM
Hi.  What do you mean specifically by Italian sausages.  Fresh?  Or dry cured like salami?  Is there cure in them?  Prague 1 or 2?  Need some details.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: NePaSmoKer on March 18, 2012, 10:06:47 AM
HUH?
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 18, 2012, 01:26:35 PM
To add to 3rensho's questions, is there a lot of light the sausage is exposed to?

You may also want to test the cure you are using to make sure it is still good. Also you shouldn't go by smell.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 18, 2012, 07:19:48 PM
I make Italian sausages using pork meat, salt and spices. I mix the the meat with the salt and spices, place in the fridge over night and stuff the next  day. After the stuffing I hang the sausages in the cold room for 21 days for curing/drying.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: 3rensho on March 18, 2012, 10:44:02 PM
OK, one question answered.  Please answer the remainder and let us know temp and humidity as well.  Thanks.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: NePaSmoKer on March 19, 2012, 04:26:51 AM
No cure? You go by smell?

If your in another country and thats how they do it great.   Air circulation will affect the sausage in different ways, dry casings, to fast moisture loss just to name a few.

Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 22, 2012, 05:35:55 PM
I keep the coldroom as close as possible to 11C and humidity over 75%. I live in Montreal, plus made the sausages starting feb 25, 2012. Did I miss anything else?
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 23, 2012, 01:48:32 AM
Thanks for answering the questioning; but there is one important question you did not answer, and one minor question.

1- Are you using a cure such as Cure #1 (Instacure #1, Prague Powder #1) or Cure #2(Instacure #2, Prague Powder #2); or maybe saltpeter?

2- Are your sausages exposed to light a good deal of the time?

3- Sorry I just though of another question. How long do you usually hang them to dry?
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 23, 2012, 09:00:56 AM
Sorry

1) nothing other then salt
2) minimal light this is a cold room small window very little light
3) usually 21 days

Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 23, 2012, 01:10:21 PM
Without the cure, at those temperatures, and length of time you are setting up the ideal environment for the growth of Clostridium botulinum; the bacteria that causes botulism. You shouldn't dry cure sausages without using Cure #2 (Instacure #2/Prague Powder #2), when you cure over 14 days, or use Cure #1 (Instacure #1/Prague Powder #1) if less than 14 days. These cure protect the sausage from most harmful food borne bacteria.

Also the reason your sausage is brown is due to the lack of cure. It is the sodium nitrite that not only protect the sausage, but also give it the rosy color.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 24, 2012, 07:12:12 AM
We have discussed the use of sodium nitrite but have never used it in our recipe. This method of curing sausages isn't perfect but it's what we have been doing at home for over 40yrs.  My dad in all his years of making sausages and curing/drying by simple hanging hasn't ever made a batch like I did this year. 
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 24, 2012, 01:27:34 PM
I feel you are taking a big risk by not using a cure. If his sausage had a reddish color in the past the only two ingredients that I know can maintain a reddish color are sodium nitrite, and Sodium Ascorbate/Sodium Erythorbate. Other wise the meat will turn brown or grayish.

Are you sure your father didn't use salt peter? That was commonly use in this country up until the mid-1970's.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 25, 2012, 10:07:25 AM
I understand your concern, he has been making sausages the same way since the days back in Italy.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: devo on March 25, 2012, 10:20:19 AM
I really think you should listen to Habs on this. More than 5,000 Americans painfully suffer the clearly evident indications and symptoms of preventable food contamination, breathe their last breath, and agonizingly die!
I have Italian friends who do it the old way but I would never eat their sausage. It scares the heck out of me.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: NePaSmoKer on March 25, 2012, 10:37:52 AM
Then just keep doing it the way you been doing.

Simple
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: JZ on March 25, 2012, 11:21:12 AM
QuoteMy dad in all his years of making sausages and curing/drying by simple hanging hasn't ever made a batch like I did this year. 

I would take that as a warning sign. Maybe you have been lucky until now and perhaps your luck ran out this year. Why take that kind of risk. Do you have children that eat this stuff?

Some very good advice has been given by a well informed and experienced sausage maker. What you do with it is up to you.
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 25, 2012, 01:21:01 PM
Quote from: zoso1900 on March 25, 2012, 10:07:25 AM
I understand your concern, he has been making sausages the same way since the days back in Italy.

I wish you the best and hope you resolve your problem. Back in the old days in Italy, as far as I know, most sausage makers used salt peter (sodium nitrate) at that time. Just one other word of caution. Botulism is a Latin term derived for the Latin word for sausage (botulus). Botulism was referred to as the "Sausage Disease".
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: zoso1900 on March 26, 2012, 05:53:54 PM
Ok. Yes we have thought about it, maybe the time has come to introduce some level of salt peter. Yet I still don't understand why my sausages have turned brown? Unless the issue is lack of salt peter?
Title: Re: sausage curing question
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 27, 2012, 02:20:58 AM
The brown color is what uncured sausage (meat) looks like. Adding salt peter (modern sausage makers use Cure #2 or Prague Powder #2 for fermented/dry cured sausage) the sausage will develop that red color. If your father's sausage was red, the only common ingredient that can develop that red color would be he had to been using some type of cure. It goes by many names, and is formulated differently in different countries.

The following site has a great deal of information on sausage and meat safety.
Making Sausage (http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making)

Here is some good information on Fermented Sausage (Dry Cured):
Fermented Sausage (http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-types/fermented-sausage)

More information on cures:
Curing (http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing)
Towards the bottom, you will see a list of common names different countries call their cures.