Hi all. Had my 4 rack Bradley Digital Smoker for 3 years, fairly light use I guess. Not been able to get the element working today.
1. The digital unit appears to be fine, smoke tray is fine and the oven controls accept requests
2. The 10 amp fuse on in the control unit appears fine and intact
3. I have pushed and pushed and pushed the short power lead connections in as much as possible
4. I have tried a second kettle lead direct to the cabinet from the mains
5. I have swapped around and jiggled the sensor lead
I have not opened the back and looked at the fuse there. I am not even sure I would know what I am looking for! Before I consider doing this does 4. above not working mean it probably isn't that?? Or does 4. just rule out a fault on power out of the control unit? I can of course contact Bradley in the UK but if I need a new element or cabinet fuse any UK users have experience of sourcing them? And is it as easy as unscrewing the old one and putting the new one on per this thread: http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=21091.0
Thanks for any input and apologies for dragging this issue up again
Since you plugged the cabinet directly into a wall socket and it doesn't work, that narrows it down to a bad element, or a blown in-line fuse, and/or loose wiring inside the cabinet. If you have a multi-test meter, remove the element and test the ohm resistance. You should get a reading of 27 - 31, if it is zero it needs to be replaced. and yes replacing one is easy.
You can't tell if the in-line fuse in the back is blown by looking at it. You can temporarily by pass it with 14 gauge wire, for testing only. If you by pass it and the element heats up; then the in-line fuse needs to be replaced. But don't use this as a way to smoke/cook with your Bradley.
Thanks for your help, I think I can lay my hands on a multi-meter. My dad will know what he is doing but I'm checking the element, right, not the cabinet? :)
Ive had mine for 6 months now, yesterday it quit working about half way through my brisket. Pretty disapointed.
Quote from: Jaunty on May 07, 2012, 03:40:11 AM
Thanks for your help, I think I can lay my hands on a multi-meter. My dad will know what he is doing but I'm checking the element, right, not the cabinet? :)
If you have the meter, your first step should be to test the element. You need to detach and take the element out off the cabinet to test it. If the element is bad, you will only need to replace it. If it is good, then it could be the in-line fuse or a loose connection. At that point you will need to remove the back of the cabinet to get asses to the fuse and to check the wiring.
Many thanks. Now have a meter, so will test the element shortly.
Quote from: Jaunty on May 07, 2012, 10:57:52 PM
Many thanks. Now have a meter, so will test the element shortly.
To measure resistance through the element you only have to remove a wire from one end, not both, if you want to make it a bit easier on yourself.
Was not sure if to do a new thread, but here seems as good as anywhere. So I changed the element which was dead. Still did not work so lost interest. With summer arriving here in UK I wanted to get hot smoking working. Took the back off and found this
(http://seantrent.smugmug.com/Other/Bardley-Smoker-melt-down/i-3TwzwT3/0/XL/DSCF1386-XL.jpg)
Changed the inline fuse and the element heats up but I do not think I should use the smoker in this state, and would like to know what went wrong in the first place. I think I may need a new cabinet. I will contact Bradley but wondered if there were any ideas from the forum?
PS Grakka the UK distributors sent me this thing as well as the in line fuse. I can not see it in the Bradley cabinet, and I can not find it on the Yard & Pool spares listings. Can any one tell me what it is?
(http://seantrent.smugmug.com/Other/Bardley-Smoker-melt-down/i-sbxRGWc/0/M/Photo%204-M.jpg)
Many thanks, Sean
That doesn't look good at all....
I've never seen that part, but I'm not familiar with your voltage system.
I've had some insulation melt in the back of my smoker, but nothing on that scale. That looks as if a fire caused that. Did you determine if that was a fire, and/or what caused that damage.
Here is picture of melted insulation caused from the heating element. Note: this was discovered prior to installing my second element.
(http://www.susanminor.org/users/Hab/Misc_Files/Additional_Element/_2Back_Wiring.jpg)
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on May 11, 2013, 01:22:33 PM
I've never seen that part, but I'm not familiar with your voltage system.
I've had some insulation melt in the back of my smoker, but nothing on that scale. That looks as if a fire caused that. Did you determine if that was a fire, and/or what caused that damage.
Thanks for your post and picture. It looks like a fire to me too but I do not know how or why it happened. I will contact Bradley and see what they say.
Out of interest and in case of any benefit this is my exhange with Grakka, the Bradley distributors in the UK. They are saying if the unit works it is fine to use, which somewhat surprises me...
PS I stiill have no clue to what the metal rod thing I have been sent is, someone must have an idea?!
-----Original Message-----
From: Grakka Limited Sales <
[email protected]>
Sender:
Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 10:31:32
To:
Subject: RE: Fire in back of Bradley Cabinet?
Hi Sean
There is no way that the Cabinet can overheat as the heating element is not powerful enough to do this.
The lining will change colour as you use the smoker. It starts to look like lasagne.
The sensor is found on the back wall of the cabinet (inside). It is half way up and looks like a small knob about the size of a 50p. If this was faulty, then the cabinet element would not heat up at all. So this is obviously not the case.
The cabinet is also fused so any sign of an electrical fault, it would fuse the whole house.
I would suggest you test run the smoker before you use it again. Just the cabinet, unplug the generator and put it to one side, then put the main power cable into the back of the cabinet.
The cabinet element should glow red after a few minutes and the cabinet will heat up. I would run it for about half an hour as a test. If you have no problems, then carry on and use it as normal.
If you do have problems, get back to me.
I'm afraid we do not sell the cabinet separately. I do have new doors if you want to replace your door. The Bradleys are very safe and simple machines so this should not affect the use of the smoker.
Let me know what you wish to do
Kind regards
xxxx
Grakka Limited
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: 14 May 2013 12:57
To: Grakka Limited Sales
Subject: Re: Fire in back of Bradley Cabinet?
Hi xxx. There has been no sign of any fire at all inside the cabinet and there has never been a build up of fat.
As you can see from the picture the cabinet has overheated or there has been a fire in the sealed part of the cabinet, to the extent that the fire resistant lining has melted. This makes me believe it was an electrical fault in the wiring in the cabinet or a failure of the heat sensor to turn off the element (I believe there is a heat sensor? Can I check or change this?). This is not caused by a fat flare up in the cooking area.
I have changed the heating element already and it is working. My concern is whether the cabinet is actually safe to now use with the damaged lining? Is it possible to get a replacement 4 rack digital cabinet, to be safe? The smoke generator is fine.
Finally, what is the other spare part I have been sent by you (see photo of it in the linked thread).
Thanks a lot.
Sean.
------Original Message------
From: Grakka Limited Sales
Sender:
To:
Subject: RE: Fire in back of Bradley Cabinet?
Sent: 14 May 2013 09:45
Dear Sean
The only way a fire can be started is if the hot meat fats are not regularly not cleaned out, or the bowl catching the burnt bisquettes is not full of water.
Fires are very rare in the Bradley and are only caused by user error.
If you wish to purchase a heating element for your cabinet, please contact us. They are £9 + postage.
Kind regards
xxx
Grakka Limited
I would contact Bradley home office and send your picture to them. I am sorry, but I have a hard time believing that the picture represents any close to normal operation.
It strikes me that indeed you did have a fire within your cabinet that ran up the interior back wall of the cabinet thereby super heating the back wall to the point of scorching the insulation sandwiched between the interior and exterior walls. Assuming my theory is correct I would venture that the fire was caused by fat running down the interior back wall on to the heating element. Thankfully it apparently extinguished itself after the fat burnt off and didn't involve the remainder of your cabinet. That's just my theory mind you. :)
As for the unknown piece they sent you, that looks like a fire rod used in a pellet burning grill to ignite the initial feed of pellets.
Ditto with Larry
Looks like a hot rod for pellet ignition
Thank you very much NePaSmoker, GusRobin and KyNola especially for your input. I think I will ask Bradley USA for a second opinion. Thanks also for input on the spare spare part. Sean
Quote from: Jaunty on May 22, 2013, 02:36:37 PMI think I will ask Bradley USA for a second opinion.
Actually, the headquarters is located in Canada.
Quote from: TedEbear on May 22, 2013, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Jaunty on May 22, 2013, 02:36:37 PMI think I will ask Bradley USA for a second opinion.
Actually, the headquarters is located in Canada.
Whoops sorry!
The "Fire rod" appears to be the heating element for the bisquette burner. Just looked at my SG and it has a similar tube coming out of the plate heading to the inside of the SG box.
Just for the benefit of any one in a similar situation, I emailed the main Bradley address, and the responses came back from their UK agent Grakka as pasted below. They do not seem concerned...(Read from the bottom up for it to make sense!).
Anyways, the heating element seems fine. I think the lining is more about trying to insulate the cabinet rather than any safety measure so I am using it again. Next job is to try and take apart the briquette feeder and give it a good clean as I get an error every 20 minutes when it tries to load the next biscuit. Has been out of use for a while now though so may be a bit seized up inside!
"Hi Sean
There is no way that the Cabinet can overheat as the heating element is not powerful enough to do this.
The lining will change colour as you use the smoker. It starts to look like lasagne.
The sensor is found on the back wall of the cabinet (inside). It is half way up and looks like a small knob about the size of a 50p. If this was faulty, then the cabinet element would not heat up at all. So this is obviously not the case.
The cabinet is also fused so any sign of an electrical fault, it would fuse the whole house.
I would suggest you test run the smoker before you use it again. Just the cabinet, unplug the generator and put it to one side, then put the main power cable into the back of the cabinet.
The cabinet element should glow red after a few minutes and the cabinet will heat up. I would run it for about half an hour as a test. If you have no problems, then carry on and use it as normal.
If you do have problems, get back to me.
I'm afraid we do not sell the cabinet separately. I do have new doors if you want to replace your door. The Bradleys are very safe and simple machines so this should not affect the use of the smoker.
Let me know what you wish to do
Kind regards
xxxx
Grakka Limited
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Trent
Sent: 14 May 2013 12:57
To: Grakka Limited Sales
Subject: Re: Fire in back of Bradley Cabinet?
Hi xxxx. There has been no sign of any fire at all inside the cabinet and there has never been a build up of fat.
As you can see from the picture the cabinet has overheated or there has been a fire in the sealed part of the cabinet, to the extent that the fire resistant lining has melted. This makes me believe it was an electrical fault in the wiring in the cabinet or a failure of the heat sensor to turn off the element (I believe there is a heat sensor? Can I check or change this?). This is not caused by a fat flare up in the cooking area.
I have changed the heating element already and it is working. My concern is whether the cabinet is actually safe to now use with the damaged lining? Is it possible to get a replacement 4 rack digital cabinet, to be safe? The smoke generator is fine.
Finally, what is the other spare part I have been sent by you (see photo of it in the linked thread).
Thanks a lot.
Sean.
------Original Message------
From: Grakka Limited Sales
Sender: xxxx
To: Sean Trent
Subject: RE: Fire in back of Bradley Cabinet?
Sent: 14 May 2013 09:45
Dear Sean
The only way a fire can be started is if the hot meat fats are not regularly not cleaned out, or the bowl catching the burnt bisquettes is not full of water.
Fires are very rare in the Bradley and are only caused by user error.
If you wish to purchase a heating element for your cabinet, please contact us. They are £9 + postage.
Kind regards
xxxx
Grakka Limited
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Trent
Sent: 12 May 2013 00:17
To:
[email protected]Subject: Fire in back of Bradley Cabinet?
Hi. Rather than re-write everything it really is much easier to ask you to read the thread and check the photo here on the Bradley Smoker forums:
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=28283.0
I have had the unit 4 years. It was not heavily used, and always had a cover on when not in use, The heating has not worked for the probably the last 18 months so probably when it had the internal fire? Is it now safe to use the unit? Do you know what the fault was as I would not want it to happen again and burst in to flames? Is it possible to get a new cabinet only (the smoke generator seems fine).
Happy to call and discuss but wanted to get you the info first.
Many thanks"
Wow, I am amazed with those responses.
Quote from: rveal23 on July 20, 2013, 11:38:36 AM
Wow, I am amazed with those responses.
I am also. I wonder if he took the times to look at the photos.
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on July 20, 2013, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: rveal23 on July 20, 2013, 11:38:36 AM
Wow, I am amazed with those responses.
I am also. I wonder if he took the times to look at the photos.
Ditto a million times. He is either misinformed or simply doesn't give a $h!t.
I think I would either contact Brian direct on the forum or call Bradley in Canada during the week, I don't think they would be happy with your situation or the response you got. Please keep us posted on how it turns out.
Thanks all. I did email Bradley HQ, I assume they referred it back to Grakka as I am in the UK. May be it was a fat fire that over heated and melted the lining - but if it was, then I really think I would have realised when I took the charred and cremated food out of the cabinet! I do use it outside, so at least if it bursts in to flames it should not be too serious :).
The hot smoked salmon worked out well and reminded me why I am very glad to have the BDS back in service, even if it is now not very well insulated. I took apart & gave the feeder a good clean today & that seems to be running well again. Hopefully I will have a few more years faithful service from it. All the best and thanks for your input.
I have to say the 500W heating elements are not very reliable. I have a BDTS for about three years with about 150hours of on time. I have replaced the element three times. The first failure was after 10hrs out of the box. I was told a bad lot of elements was in the field. I have three different lots with the same problem. I added a second element thinking maybe one element is overstressed, and I bought a PID. This past weekend one of the two elements blew out during cooking. The unit is never operating about 200F.
Well I'll have to agree the elements are not very reliable - after all that, my second smoke since it was "fixed" and the new element is not working :(.
I don't need the Bradley for cold smoking, so if hot smoking is this difficult I may just retire it. Cold smoke first then cook afterwards.
EDIT - So the element works if plugged direct in to the mains. As a stop gap any idea what temp it will hit if I run it like this, and is it safe to do so?
FURTHER UPDATE - Any clues on how I can test the in line fuse for continuity? A link to a description? I tried ice and a lighter on the heat temp sensor. Still can only get the heating element to work plugged direct in to the mains.
Quote from: Jaunty on September 01, 2013, 04:54:09 AM
Well I'll have to agree the elements are not very reliable - after all that, my second smoke since it was "fixed" and the new element is not working :(.
I don't need the Bradley for cold smoking, so if hot smoking is this difficult I may just retire it. Cold smoke first then cook afterwards.
EDIT - So the element works if plugged direct in to the mains. As a stop gap any idea what temp it will hit if I run it like this, and is it safe to do so?
I guess you've figured out that the element is not bad if it heats when you bypass the SG. The easiest thing to check would be the fuse on the back of the SG. Other than that, take the SG apart and look for a loose connection inside. If you want to bypass the SG and plug it in directly I don't know what temp it would reach but I'd guess it would trip the high temp sensor in the cabinet at around 275-300 degrees.
Thanks. Have checked all the wires, just trying to figure out how I can test the in line fuse now.
If you have a multimeter disconnect one end of the fuse and check for continuity across it. If you don't have one, maybe a neighbor has one you can borrow.
Thanks I already invested in one to test my previous bad element. Will take another look.
Sorry to be such an idiot - or too lazy to take it apart and try it, you choose :) - but do I need to unscrew the heating element from the inside of the cabinet to take off the in line fuse connection and then test each end of the in-line fuse?
UPDATE - So I checked immediately either side of the fuse and got a continuity tone. I unscrewed the element anyway just to check the connection which was solid. It also mean I could check the in-line fuse from end to end and it was fine.
So given this and that the element heats fine from the mains it appears I have a broken temperature sensor. I will try and order one from the UK supplier (although I am not sure they will know what I mean, so I will link them to the Yard & Pool part). Update to follow. Today's lamb is now in the oven, and the 24 pieces of brined salmon forming a pellicle will have to be cold smoked instead of hot smoked >:(.
PS I just wanted to mention Brian did get back to me personally, so kudos for that, I missed his email some how (probably opened on my mobile & I did not realise). He feels there was a grease fire but pointed out this could have been in the lining area and I may not have even realised it before it burned itself out. I am still surprised that that amount of grease could build up smoking at lowish temps without me realising.
Sorry for all the posts...I read somewhere you can bypass the temp sensor to check if that is the problem. Any clues on how I can do this?
On the BDS, if you put your meter probes on the parallel pins on the oven connector after removing the cord from oven, you will get a ohm or 2 higher reading than element reading with probes on element only. If high temp sensor is bad reading will be infinite. Hope that helps.
I believe if the element works when you plug it directly into an outlet, then the high temperature sensor is good. Are you getting any error displays on the generator LCD display?
Alanfromwis "On the BDS, if you put your meter probes on the parallel pins on the oven connector after removing the cord from oven, you will get a ohm or 2 higher reading than element reading with probes on element only. If high temp sensor is bad reading will be infinite. Hope that helps".
Did not try this yet as HS commented : "I believe if the element works when you plug it directly into an outlet, then the high temperature sensor is good. Are you getting any error displays on the generator LCD display?". No error displays on the generator, and works fine directly from an outlet. If that means the temp sensor is fine, then I seem have run out of diagnostics?
The cable connecting the generator and the cabinet seems fine, I can set the generator temp and I get a reading of the cabinet temp. Just the element only works direct from the outlet. Hmmm, Any more diagnostics I can undertake? Thanks everyone for your attempts to get my BDS back on the road.
(In the meantime, salmon was cold smoked and cooked and then cooked off in a low oven. Not as good as proper hot smoked though).
Have you checked the wiring inside the generator that corresponds to the socket the cabinet plugs into? Make sure all the wiring is securely connected on both ends.
If by plugging in the cabinet directly into a wall outlet or surge protector to get the element to heat up, if you can still use the generator to control the temperature, you can run it like that until you find the solution to your problem.
You can check the voltage on the parallel pins on output connector of controller with oven turned on. Looking at controller from the back, it is the left (female) connector. With probes in bottom 2 pins with oven on set to high enough range so it't calling for heat and meter set to AC voltage, you should get 120vac. If you don't problem is in controller. If you do, check cable from controller to oven by plugging male end of cable into controller, then check for 120 vac on female end of cable. This will tell you if you have voltage to oven. You can determine if problem is in controller or cable without taking controller apart.
Thanks guys again. I did clean the inside of the smoke generator after I fixed the element and did a hot smoke, so it does make sense to double check the internal wiring. Sean
I just wanted to update the post to report back the last issue with the new element not working was user error. A wire was left loose after I opened the Smoke Generator to give it a good clean. Now sorted so I should be back in action with some low and slow smoking in time for the UK summer (albeit with a poorly insulated cabinet haha). Thanks everyone for helping out.
Even though it has been 8 months since you had your issue thanks for coming back and saying "hey guys, this problem was on me". A lot of folks would have been content to let Bradley take the blame rather than admitting it was user error.
Congrats on getting your issue solved. Happy Smoking!
Quote from: KyNola on April 27, 2014, 07:49:48 AM
Even though it has been 8 months since you had your issue thanks for coming back and saying "hey guys, this problem was on me". A lot of folks would have been content to let Bradley take the blame rather than admitting it was user error.
Congrats on getting your issue solved. Happy Smoking!
X2, Looking forward to pictures of your smokes
Hi KyNola. I only just yesterday opened it up and saw it was a wire and fixed it, as the weather is getting better. (I'd had had enough of wires and non-working elements for a while, and I do have other ways to smoke too). But it is great to have the Bradley back on track - some baby back ribs are on as I type, and the wife has requests in for hot smoked salmon and chicken. Myself, I'm looking forward to slow smoked shoulder of bone in lamb.... :). And I think I will invest in a cart for it as part of its second wind, something like this maybe http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70217336/
Quote from: Jaunty on April 27, 2014, 08:57:49 AM
Hi KyNola. I only just yesterday opened it up and saw it was a wire and fixed it, as the weather is getting better. (I'd had had enough of wires and non-working elements for a while, and I do have other ways to smoke too). But it is great to have the Bradley back on track - some baby back ribs are on as I type, and the wife has requests in for hot smoked salmon and chicken. Myself, I'm looking forward to slow smoked shoulder of bone in lamb.... :). And I think I will invest in a cart for it as part of its second wind, something like this maybe http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70217336/
That's a nice one, I found a wooden one on Craigslist that has enough room to use it as a countertop when putting meat in the smoker. http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=32615.msg381511#msg381511