BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Bradley Smokers => The Black Bradley Smoker (BTIS1) => Topic started by: nodak on February 22, 2006, 01:44:23 AM

Title: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on February 22, 2006, 01:44:23 AM
I'm a Technologically Impaired Rookie and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions on setup before I try mine.  It's all wired to go(thanks bubbagump and gary's wiring diagram) will be trying the cheap TC I bought with it, as my Omega TC doesn't look like it's going make it for the weekend again.  Does anything need to be changed from initial settings?

Thanks,
mike
"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on February 22, 2006, 11:25:45 AM
Have you run the autotune feature yet?

BTW, Suyi at Auberin told me the red lead on their TC is the positive one...

Don't give up on the Omega arriving. Mine showed up yesterday.
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on February 22, 2006, 02:44:14 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gary_CO</i>
<br />BTW, Suyi at Auberin told me the red lead on their TC is the positive one...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Gary - That's opposite of what standard is for them. Check this out  http://www.pmcwire.com/ThermocoupleWire.htm
My Omega came with the red to negative.

Nodak - You will probably have to run the autotune a few times. Get the temp. close to setpoint before activating it. I would wait for the Omega TC to arrive before programming. The TC from Auberin is a pretty crappy.

Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on February 22, 2006, 03:43:23 PM
I remember that link from earlier in the thread. That's why I mentioned it to Nodak. I don't know if you've seen the Auberin TC, but it has 2 gray leads (one with a tiny red stripe). The ends have crimp-on connectors, one is blue and the other is red. That threw me a curve, so I emailed Auberin and he said red was positive on theirs.
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on February 22, 2006, 08:44:45 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gary_CO</i>
<br />I remember that link from earlier in the thread. That's why I mentioned it to Nodak. I don't know if you've seen the Auberin TC, but it has 2 gray leads (one with a tiny red stripe). The ends have crimp-on connectors, one is blue and the other is red. That threw me a curve, so I emailed Auberin and he said red was positive on theirs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes I saw the Auberin TC and was not impressed at all. Pretty low end to say the least. But for 5 bucks I guess a person shouldn't expect much.

Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on February 23, 2006, 01:06:59 AM
Just checked on-line and my Omega TC hasn't shipped yet, so it will be next week.  So I started experimenting tonight with the Aubrin TC and an electric burner and pot of water.  Seems to work fairly decent Aroud 3 degrees difference it seems.  Will have to auto tune it for my smoker this weekend.  I was wondering how do I tighten up or loosen the parameters as far as how much it fluctuates from my set temperature[?]



"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on February 25, 2006, 11:58:15 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nodak</i>
<br />I was wondering how do I tighten up or loosen the parameters as far as how much it fluctuates from my set temperature[?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Nodak - The only parameter I adjusted (other than the alarm limits) was the cycle time "t". This adjusts the speed the output is turned on and off. Since you are using an SSR output you can set it to 0 or 1 for potentially better performance.

I haven't had much time, or the weather, lately to properly test it. I'd like it to be a little warmer. So far the one I'm testing is close but I need to run it longer to see how much fluctuation in box temp. I get.

Also, it you used a mini-jack on your project box and wired it with red to positive for the Auberin TC you'll need to change it when you get your Omega TC as it is wired red to negative.

Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: TomG on February 25, 2006, 01:43:39 PM
Re: TC polarity. I've found that red is usually negative, unless it's positive[:)] I attach the TC wires to  the appropriate PID terminals, turn it on, get an ambient read then hold the probe in my hand. If the indicated temp increases, the hookup is correct, if it decreases switch the TC wires.
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on February 25, 2006, 01:44:18 PM
Well I'm giving it a real tough try today on some ribs w/Auberin TC.  You can't expect a kid to wait to play with a new toy after he opens it. Was -10F this morning getting up to smoke now about 5.

My Omega TC and jacks won't be here until Wednesday when I tracked it.

Bubba I'm assuming I don't need to adjust alarms assuming they only close that circuit and don't shut down output to smoker??  Also was thinking I could hook up a buzzer to alarm circuit to let me know when done or smoke gets unplugged.  Wouldn't have to rely on Maverick only to get my attention.

 



"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on February 25, 2006, 02:59:16 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nodak</i>
<br />Well I'm giving it a real tough try today on some ribs w/Auberin TC.  You can't expect a kid to wait to play with a new toy after he opens it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I know how you feel. I was excited to try mine out the first time.[:p]
You are right, you don't have to adjust the alarm parameters if you don't want to as they do not affect the output. I just adjusted the ones on mine so they wouldn't come on.

Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on February 25, 2006, 07:07:54 PM
Do I need to auto tune every time, seasonal or never[?][?][?][?]

Will auto tune for sure when I get my new probe.  It worked satisfactory with probe, assuming it will be even better when I get my Omega probe.  

It sure was nice to be able to run to the other farm 20 minutes away for a couple of hours without worrying. Definitely recommend to everyone.

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on February 25, 2006, 07:08:56 PM
Do I need to auto tune every time, seasonal or never[?][?][?][?]

Will auto tune for sure when I get my new probe.  It worked satisfactory with probe, assuming it will be even better when I get my Omega probe.  

It sure was nice to be able to run to the other farm 20 minutes away for a couple of hours without worrying. Definitely recommend to everyone.

PS thanks bubbagump for all the advice.



"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on February 25, 2006, 08:21:35 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nodak</i>
<br />Do I need to auto tune every time, seasonal or never[?][?][?][?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I would autotune again with the new probe and then that should be sufficient.

Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on March 05, 2006, 08:35:33 PM
Bubbagumps advice is right on!!!! The Omega TC is superior.  The other TC jumped around current temp, but did hold smoker ok for boston butt.  But Omega is holding it steady, w/ no current temp jumping, as I do snack sticks.  Sure nice not to have to worry about temperature fluctuations.  PID is highly recommended.

Great big thanks to Bubbagump and all other contributors.

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: dick621 on March 05, 2006, 09:23:04 PM
The color code is different in Japan for thermocouples.  Omega has a TC color code chart I think that tells all the color codes for different countrys.    Dick in Emmett, Idaho












q
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on March 05, 2006, 10:55:53 PM
Hey Nodak,
I'd be sure to do some comparisions w/ your new TC against another thermometer. On my first run, the water boiled out of the pan rather quickly even though I was set on a couple of degrees below boiling. Played around and found out that an offset(Pb) of 7-8 degrees got me perfect...

Here's a chart of that first run:
(http://home.comcast.net/~garyco212/misc/Auber/pid_chart.gif)
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: nodak on March 05, 2006, 11:10:11 PM
Pretty fancy graphs there gary.  I had checked mine and it seems to be reading about 4 degrees high.  Thanks for the info and advice.  Are you enjoying yours yet???   Next weekend will do an overnight smoke with it.

"If you're not living on the edge, You're taking up way too much room, so get the he-- out of my way."
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on March 05, 2006, 11:18:27 PM
Yea, I'm enjoying mine. Fasinating to watch it, ecspecially during the autotune routine. I started freaking out at first, until I read in the manual that it purposely overshoots during the autotune. I got brave and did an overnighter on my first smoke. I think I'll play with the "I" and "D" parameters a little before I try and do another long smoke. As you can see in the chart, it did oscilate some. Fun stuff.
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Arcs_n_Sparks on March 06, 2006, 01:15:43 AM
Good to see some real engineering data.[8D][8D][8D]

Been tuning my PID loops for my home brew unit the last two weekends. Interesting to watch the interactions. I have about eight runs of data with the vent closed. Going to open it all the way and repeat the runs. Should have a different thermal response from the Bradley.

Arcs_n_Sparks
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on March 06, 2006, 01:51:05 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by arcs_n_sparks</i>
<br />... my home brew unit the last two weekends...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Neat. You doing extract or all-grain? Hard to imagine all-grain with electric burner(s), or is your PID setup for fermentation/mashing/?

Since playing with mine [:D] I've thought about applying to homebrewing, but I know if I switch to all-grain I'll have to move to propane in the garage...
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on March 06, 2006, 06:08:51 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gary_CO</i>
<br />Hey Nodak,
I'd be sure to do some comparisions w/ your new TC against another thermometer. On my first run, the water boiled out of the pan rather quickly even though I was set on a couple of degrees below boiling. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Gary - Were you using 212 as your boiling point? If you were, that's where some of the problem may be. Assuming you're elevation is around 5000' your boiling point should be approx. 203, depending on pressure.
I wouldn't determine accuracy of your TC by comparing to another thermometer unless you are absolutely certain it is accurate. Below  is the procedure I use when checking mine. I posted this some time ago in another thread.

"The best way to check their accuracy is to get a small pot of water boiling and place the tip of each probe in the water making sure the probes are not touching the bottom or the sides of the pot. DO NOT fully immerse the probes in the water. Since the boiling point of water is dependent on altitude and pressure you can use this link to check what the boiling point should be for your area."

http://www.biggreenegg.com/boilingPoint.htm



Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Arcs_n_Sparks on March 06, 2006, 10:39:18 AM
gary_CO,

I meant my home-built PID unit running the Bradley.

Arc_n_Sparks
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on March 06, 2006, 11:31:53 AM
The boiling point here is supposed to be 201.8. So, I shoot for 200 as a target temp. I have two digital thermometers (Taylor and OregonScientific remote). Both of them are close to 32 in a glass of ice water, read right at 98 if I use them like a medical thermometer (the oral kind, not the rectal kind [:o)]), and 202 in boiling water. The one  on the newly fangled PID reads 94 in boiling water. The difference is less at 98 and negligible in ice water. I have no idea if the TC or the controller is off.

But I guess it doesn't matter with being able to offset it. I haven't checked the accuracy near body temp or ice water since adjusting the controller, but figure it soesn't matter much since I do most everything  at 200, with the exception of jerky. Might go higher occasionally on a brisket.

I have an ET-73 on order and it's supposed to be here this Thursday. I'm not holding my breath though. The online vendor has shown horrible customer service so far. The OregonScientific model seems to have been accurate so far, but it has limited settings (four doneness levels, eight different meat types). But you can't set custom temps for the alarm. And it limits out at 199 while displaying fahrenheit. Celcius goes higher...

I like measuring stuff and tinkering around, so all this has been fun for me. I'm definitely easily amused!
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on March 12, 2006, 09:14:17 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by gary_CO</i>
<br />The boiling point here is supposed to be 201.8. So, I shoot for 200 as a target temp. I have two digital thermometers (Taylor and OregonScientific remote). Both of them are close to 32 in a glass of ice water, read right at 98 if I use them like a medical thermometer (the oral kind, not the rectal kind [:o)]), and 202 in boiling water. The one  on the newly fangled PID reads 94 in boiling water. The difference is less at 98 and negligible in ice water. I have no idea if the TC or the controller is off.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Gary - What thermocouple wire did you use to connect the mini panel jack to the PID? Was it the Auber wire or the Omega? I found that it makes a big difference if the TC probe wire and the wire used to connect the PID to panel jack are not the same.

I put an Auber PID in a friends smoke generator recently. When purchasing the Auber PID I also purchased the $5.00 TC as well. I then used a short piece of the Auber TC wire to hook up the mini panel jack to the PID and then installed a matching connector on the TC.

When I tested the set up I wasn't happy with the Auber TC at all so I ordered an Omega TC like mine. When it arrived I tested the set up again and found the Omega TC worked much better but noticed the temp reading on the PID was almost 20 degrees higher when comparing it to my ET-73 that was next to it. So I hooked the Omega TC into my smoke generator and my PID read identical to the ET-73. I knew then that the problem was not the TC. I checked the settings on the Auber TC again and everything was correct. I was about to punch in a offset to correct it when I remembered that I had wired the Auber PID to the panel jack with a piece of Auber TC wire, which is different than the Omega wire. I rewired the PID with a piece of the Omega TC wire and BINGO! the temp on the Auber PID and the ET-73 were identical with no offset programmed into the PID. [:)]



Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: gary_CO on March 12, 2006, 10:29:46 PM
I used a piece of the Omega wire to run from the minijack to the PID.

I finally received an ET-73 I had ordered. I thought it would be interesting to compare the others I have (an Oregon Scientific and a Taylor). The others seem accurate but don't have as many features as the ET-73. Anyway, the ET-73 shows water slightly boiled to be 280 degrees and my body temp at 125 & 255!

What the h... I'm beginning to think I'm in some temperature Bermuda Triangle here.

I still need to do some more camparisions.
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: bubbagump on March 13, 2006, 12:02:28 AM
The first ET-73 I got had a bad thermistor and then the ET-73 itself went bad, which I returned under warranty.

Bubbagump
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Backusmj on March 02, 2013, 10:14:35 AM
Sorry to resurrect and old thread but I was hoping someone could answer my question.  If you buy an Omega Thermocouple TJ72-CASS-316U-3-SB-SMPW-M that has pre-made ends and the female mini panel jack RMJ-K-R, where do you get the extra Omega TC wire to wire the jack to the PID?  I can only find the wire in lengths of 25'.
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Mr Walleye on March 02, 2013, 01:57:34 PM
Backusmj

When I built my first PID I used an Omega TC. I simply took the plug end off and snipped enough wire off to wire the panel jack, then put the plug back on.

Since that time I have built a number of controllers and I use the TC from Auber Instruments. They are a lot cheaper and I have never had a problem with them.

Mike
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Backusmj on March 02, 2013, 02:57:03 PM
makes sense... i was under the impression that everyone found the Auber TC's to be less accurate.  i think a lot of these posts i was reading were from years ago so possibly Auber improved their TC's.  just out of curiosity, which Auber TC do you use?
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Mr Walleye on March 02, 2013, 03:29:47 PM
This is the one I use....
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=101

It's thin diameter and length make respone very fast. I've used several of them in different smokers and never had a problem with them.

Mike
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Backusmj on March 02, 2013, 03:36:34 PM
did you mount it in the cabinet or just hang it from the vent?
Title: Re: Auberin PID settings advice?
Post by: Mr Walleye on March 02, 2013, 03:43:18 PM
I mounted mine. Simply take a piece of aluminum angle to make a bracket. I mounted it in the centre of the cabinet, crossways at the back. I did run the wire down through the vent and down a back corner that way the trays can slid in and out without a problem.

Mike