BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Recipe Discussions => Meat => Topic started by: Smokeville on October 07, 2013, 06:44:09 am

Title: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 07, 2013, 06:44:09 am
Hello all;

I've been tempted to try Montreal Smoked Meat ever since my wife and I spent 4 days in Montreal and went to both Schwartzs and Lesters. We also went to Martin Picard's Au Pied de Cochon restaurant. Several weeks ago I discovered Martin's recipe for Montreal Smoked Meat.

http://cabanepdc.tumblr.com/post/43562487632/smoked-meat

I'm convinced the recipe has a typo and the smoking temperature should be 250F and not 150F. And I don't quite understand why he wraps it totally 3 times in foil for the entire smoke, so I am going to use a more "normal" approach for the smoking phase.

I did follow the brine recipe with leeks and maple syrup (everything Martin does has maple syrup) and also the rub...

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-07_08-58-15_529_zpsb3c91e49.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-07_08-58-15_529_zpsb3c91e49.jpg.html)

I had to cut the brisket in two because I didn't have a pot large enough to hold the whole thing for the wet brine.

They will go into the smoker in about 10 minutes and I'll post photos later today.

Regards, Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: beefmann on October 07, 2013, 08:12:10 am
sounds  good and  looking great
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: squirtthecat on October 07, 2013, 08:21:42 am

Watching this..........
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Saber 4 on October 07, 2013, 09:50:24 am
Can't wait to see the results, Happy Smoking
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 07, 2013, 06:01:46 pm
After the 5 hour smoke and 4 hours wrapped in foil in the oven....

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-07_20-51-39_515_zps54b48df8.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-07_20-51-39_515_zps54b48df8.jpg.html)

Nice red colour. The taste test of the flat was promising. It's still tough, but needs to be steamed for 3-4 hours tomorrow...

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-07_20-53-14_633_zpsf15b0c08.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-07_20-53-14_633_zpsf15b0c08.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Saber 4 on October 07, 2013, 06:43:19 pm
looks mighty tasty, I bet it steams up good.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 07, 2013, 08:17:29 pm
I hope so...

I was very happy to see the nice pink colour. This was the first time in years I have used prague powder and I was a bit worried.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: pz on October 07, 2013, 08:23:20 pm
Does look tasty - even if it doesn't tender-up as much as you'd like, it looks like it would make great tasty Reubens if thinly sliced
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on October 08, 2013, 02:21:46 am
It looks good. Steaming should tenderize it some more.

How much salt and cure taste did it have?  What brand of kosher salt did you use? 
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: rajzer on October 08, 2013, 12:18:41 pm
Looks very tasty.  Slice it thinly and it should solve some of the issues with tenderness.  If you tasted the meat at Schwartz's then you know that the fatter the beef, it's tastier and tender.  They give you the option of eating the lean, medium and fat brisket, and I always chhose the medium fat one.  Yours looks quite lean, so next time find a fatter piece.  There will be some trimming and waste, but it will be worth it.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 08, 2013, 01:17:01 pm
Ok, folks, here is the finished product.... I over-steamed it, unfortunately, so it will not slice cleanly, but the taste is amazing! (the pieces in the photo were cut with the grain instead of across it). Next time I will be sure to continually monitor the temp. I know better than that.

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-08_16-04-35_156_zpsfbeac501.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-08_16-04-35_156_zpsfbeac501.jpg.html)

It tastes, well, like Montreal Smoked Meat. Really good Montreal Smoked Meat. I used Morton's Kosher salt, and followed the brine ingredients and rub ingedients just as in the recipe, but factored them up for the size of the brisket.

The flat was a bit lean, but the point had a nice layer of fat.

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-08_16-04-46_290_zpsfc72a054.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-08_16-04-46_290_zpsfc72a054.jpg.html)

I think next time I would use less peppercorns and less of the crushed chili, but that's just my taste.

All in all, I'm happy, except that the darn thing falls apart -- it could be Pulled Montreal Smoked Meat......

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on October 08, 2013, 01:25:02 pm
Hi Rich;

From what I see of that recipe, one gallon would be enough to cure up to 25 pounds of meats, just try to prevent crowding the meat in the container while curing. You can try cutting it against the grain. If it still falls apart you may have to cut it thicker.

Oh! Thanks for letting me know what salt you used. That way I can convert it to U.S. standard pickling salt. Pickling salt (pure salt) dissolves faster.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 08, 2013, 01:41:38 pm
I just checked to be sure and it was Morton's. Here in Canada we get Windsor, but I bought the Morton's in the US last month because it is so much cheaper than Kosher salt here.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on October 08, 2013, 01:47:52 pm
I just checked to be sure and it was Morton's. Here in Canada we get Windsor, but I bought the Morton's in the US last month because it is so much cheaper than Kosher salt here.

Thanks again. I'm going to try this recipe to see if it is any different then pastrami. I generally will use a dry cure, but will wet cure the brisket when I make this recipe.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Saber 4 on October 08, 2013, 02:02:12 pm
Looks really good, get you some flour or corn tortillas, some salsa and you've got yourself some montreal smoked meat taco's. Can't help myself we put everything on tortillas in Texas.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 08, 2013, 02:17:13 pm
Looks really good, get you some flour or corn tortillas, some salsa and you've got yourself some montreal smoked meat taco's. Can't help myself we put everything on tortillas in Texas.

Sounds great! Since we have about 10lbs of the stuff I will get to try everything!
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 08, 2013, 02:31:29 pm
I just checked to be sure and it was Morton's. Here in Canada we get Windsor, but I bought the Morton's in the US last month because it is so much cheaper than Kosher salt here.

Thanks again. I'm going to try this recipe to see if it is any different then pastrami. I generally will use a dry cure, but will wet cure the brisket when I make this recipe.

Well, here in Canada we get corned beef / pastrami / montreal smoked meat sandwiches at every deli. The good places sell product from Lesters in Montreal, and it is really very good. It can be hard to tell the difference between pastrami and MSM outside of Quebec.

What got me going on this recipe was that it came from Martin Picard. He is a legend and is truly "The Wild Chef." if you want to know how to cook squirrel or beaver or the testicles of some other animal, he's your man.

Check this out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b4mK5vvTbE

My wife and I ate at his Montreal urban location and he was as gracious as he was wild looking. So, I figured if his MSM recipe was good enough for Martin it was good enough for me!

We are having MSM on rye with mustard and a dill pickle tonight which will truly be the tatse test.

Regards, Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 08, 2013, 03:09:29 pm
Final photos before we ate it all....

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-08_17-37-40_437_zpscb537d36.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-08_17-37-40_437_zpscb537d36.jpg.html)

My wife said i was too cheap with the portion.... twice again next time!

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/2013-10-08_17-43-25_622_zps893335bc.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/2013-10-08_17-43-25_622_zps893335bc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: mybad on October 08, 2013, 03:39:42 pm
That looks amazing! Nice job.

MB
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: pz on October 08, 2013, 04:17:20 pm
That looks deliciously tender and juicy - great job
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 08, 2013, 06:42:09 pm
And, that was the flat.

We will need to wear a bib when we try the point tomorrow....

My sincere thanks to Martin Picard for this recipe.

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Ka Honu on October 08, 2013, 07:18:37 pm
Wow!
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on October 09, 2013, 01:52:55 am
I'll check out the video latter, but at this time I don't have a desire to cook rodents or testicles. :)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on October 09, 2013, 07:39:44 am
I'll check out the video latter, but at this time I don't have a desire to cook rodents or testicles. :)

Indeed. His show on Food Network Canada was a tough one to watch. BTW the video is just his simple unique take on a hamburger.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: squirtthecat on October 09, 2013, 08:31:52 am
Wow!

What he said!
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: barbquebec on November 03, 2013, 06:17:57 pm
...being from Montreal,I can assure you it's difficult to "copycat" true Montreal smoked meat.(btw there are different types of Montreal smoked meat) and yours looks awesome. 8)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Fish Whisperer on November 07, 2013, 12:51:29 pm
What is the steaming process?  I really want to try this.  It looks fantastic !

I am in Markham by the way....
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: WoodlawnSmoker on January 01, 2015, 09:14:22 am
I've been wanting to try this recipe for quite awhile now and finally have a chance.  I got a full packer brisket this week, a big chunk went to make slow-cooked beef dip sandwiches and another hunk for some MSM.

It's in the brine right now, which smells great.  Can't wait, I'll post up some pics after smoking and steaming.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: dave01 on January 01, 2015, 01:03:47 pm
Instead of steaming could you use  Sous Vide, I'm still trying to justify buying one
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: iceman on January 01, 2015, 03:31:07 pm
Instead of steaming could you use  Sous Vide, I'm still trying to justify buying one

JUST DO IT!!!  ;D
You like juicy meat? Perfect veggies? Awesome seafood? GET IT.  ;)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 01, 2015, 08:07:49 pm
Sous Vide??

This is a joke, right? Great for all sorts of small stuff but considering the size of a brisket do you really want to wait 72 hours for it to get tender????? (and that's the consensus of a number of recipes I just checked).

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: GusRobin on January 01, 2015, 10:43:35 pm
Its not like you sit there hungry for 72 hrs. You just start it three days early and forget about it until its time to take it out.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on January 02, 2015, 01:50:03 am
A lot also depends on what temperature you want to take it to. If you take it to 130 - 140°F it can be done in 24 to 36 hours. To get it to 160°F, it can take 48. Also cutting the brisket into about 5 pound sections or so, also helps.

Here is a good article, Sous Vide Brisket (http://www.modernistcookingmadeeasy.com/tags/sous-vide-brisket-recipes)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 02, 2015, 11:25:55 am
As I re-read my post, I apologize if it came off as flippant. It just took me by surprise!

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 02, 2015, 01:39:25 pm
I've been wanting to try this recipe for quite awhile now and finally have a chance.  I got a full packer brisket this week, a big chunk went to make slow-cooked beef dip sandwiches and another hunk for some MSM.

It's in the brine right now, which smells great.  Can't wait, I'll post up some pics after smoking and steaming.

Funny, I started defrosting a 12lb packer a few days ago and today it's in the brine. I'll show you mine if you show me yours! I hope to smoke it next Friday or Sunday and steam the day after.....

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 02, 2015, 01:43:04 pm
And here is a question for Habenero Smoker!

The Picard recipe calls for a 7 day wet cure. Other recipes I've seen suggest 6 to 10. What determines the length of the cure? I may need to smoke it after 6 days or wait until 9....

Thanks, Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: GusRobin on January 02, 2015, 03:21:33 pm
As I re-read my post, I apologize if it came off as flippant. It just took me by surprise!

Rich
No problem. Actually until I did my first sous vide, I felt the same way. Now its the only way I make short ribs.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: WoodlawnSmoker on January 02, 2015, 03:32:37 pm
And here is a question for Habenero Smoker!

The Picard recipe calls for a 7 day wet cure. Other recipes I've seen suggest 6 to 10. What determines the length of the cure? I may need to smoke it after 6 days or wait until 9....

Thanks, Rich

I'm interested in the answer too as I may be smoking mine after 6 days in the brine.  From what I have found, it's the thickness of the cut of meat that really determines how long it needs to stay in the brine.  I've consulted some other recipes using the same concentration of brine for MSM and pastrami, and many of them state that 3-4 days or 3-5 days in brine is adequate.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 02, 2015, 07:49:38 pm
As I re-read my post, I apologize if it came off as flippant. It just took me by surprise!

Rich
No problem. Actually until I did my first sous vide, I felt the same way. Now its the only way I make short ribs.

Well, the first thing I thought of was salmon done that way... and it seemed a long way from brisket.

There is a show we see here in Canada from Australia called My Kitchen Rules and there is no end of trouble for the contestants who try sous vide techniques. Mostly salmon but also the occasional eggs '60'.... That show is actually the #1 rated prime-time show in Australia.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on January 03, 2015, 02:36:07 am
And here is a question for Habenero Smoker!

The Picard recipe calls for a 7 day wet cure. Other recipes I've seen suggest 6 to 10. What determines the length of the cure? I may need to smoke it after 6 days or wait until 9....

Thanks, Rich


You always want to brine long enough for the meat to be fully cured; having said that, there could be a variety of reasons for the difference among recipes. Often when you see a wide range of brining times, it often depend on the source the recipe came from, and/or the individual's experience from using that brine. If the levels of sodium nitrite are within safe levels, when it comes to wet brining, the extra time will not increase the amount of sodium nitrite the meat uses, but the extra time may make the meat taste saltier. If you see very long brining times, such as 2 weeks or even 30 days, they tend to be old recipes that used salt peter, and have been converted to use cure #1, but the brine times have not been adjusted to accommodate the faster cure (cure #1). The different recipes that times may vary over several days, you may want to experiment with shorter times for the ones that use longer brine times, but that can get expensive if you are brining brisket. If you find using the longer times, the meat comes out too salty, you can always soak.

The brining times should be based on the amount of salt, the thickness of the meat; (a lot of sources go by the weight of the meat). The cut of meat can come into play; the fattier the meat the more time you want to give it to brine.  Also if you inject; injecting reduces the brine times. I only use 4 - 5 days to brine a brisket flat, if I was brining a full packer I would inject and brine a few more days. I'm not sure what type of Kosher salt Picard is using, but if it is Morton Kosher salt, or one that is similar in volume, he uses the same amount of salt I do to make corned beef, with slightly less cure, and as mentioned I generally cure 4 - 5 days. I can't tell by his photo as to whether he had brined a flat, or point, or whole packer; but looking at his cook time and temperature; I'm thinking it is a flat.

What cut of brisket/beef are you brining? How much salt and volume of water are you using? What temperatures are you planning to smoke at, and finish cooking at?
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 03, 2015, 06:45:54 am
Thanks, Habs.

I've cut the brisket into flat and point and each is in a seperate container. I'm unsure of the weight distribution and my cut was not at all 'professional'. The total weight was 12lbs. I made 2 gallons of brine and put 1 gallon in each. No injection. The salt is a different story because last time I used Mortons which I can buy in the US but this time used Windsor coarse salt which has 480mg of sodium per 1/4 tsp. That's the same as Morton's Kosher except the crystal size is bigger and that may throw off the total salt content.

It sounds like I could take the flat out of the cure in about 4 days (Thursday) and smoke then.

Thanks, Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Habanero Smoker on January 03, 2015, 01:05:33 pm
If the sodium is the same as Morton's it should be very close to the same measurement per volume.

It wouldn't hurt to keep the flat in the brine one more day. I've never cured a point by itself, but the point may also be done by day 5 or 6. You can hold the flat in the refrigerator until the point is done. Just tightly wrap it in plastic. It is better to refrigerate one day after taking it out of the brine. That time give the salt and cure time to equalize throughout the meat. Then you can smoke both at the same time.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 03, 2015, 08:14:39 pm
Thanks, Habenero Smoker!

I don't doubt that both will come out great.  Pictures to follow.

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: WoodlawnSmoker on January 04, 2015, 06:30:22 pm
I was able to finish this up today, very pleased.  It was just a "tad" chewy, but I think I didn't steam it long enough, I went with temperature instead of fork doneness.  I'll steam it some more before I slice up the rest.

You can never duplicate real Montreal smoked meat but I think this recipe comes close, very tasty.  We had some Reuben sandwiches with this meat, some of my home made sauerkraut and some smoked cheese, wow.  I'll do this one again, very nice.

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/ottawanitro/IMG_1978_zps747cb2cd.jpg)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 06, 2015, 11:51:00 am
That looks astonishing!

The last (and first) time I made it I oversteamed and the meat was hard to carve.

Practice makes perfect!

Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 06, 2015, 11:52:42 am
And, if you have a Sobeys near you, they may carry Schwartz's in vacseal. Then you can do a taste comparison.
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 13, 2015, 06:18:17 am
Ok!

Both the point and flat of the brisket came out of the brine on Friday afternoon. I rinsed them off and soaked them in cold water for about an hour, then wrapped them in plastic wrap and put them in the fridge overnight. On Saturday, I rubbed them and put them back in the fridge.

After church on Sunday they went into the smoker around 1pm for 6 hours, then I wrapped in foil and put them in the oven. Around 10:30pm I pulled them out, let them cool, and back into the fridge.

Yesterday they got steamed. It took another 5 hours to get them near 190F, but they were still both tough, so I let them go to 200F which seemed to be where they wanted to be.

Here's the flat....

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/IMG_20150112_200111_zps504a9b46.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/IMG_20150112_200111_zps504a9b46.jpg.html)

It was very juicy and tender and tasty, so I was much happier than on my previous attempt.

The point is in the fridge whole and I hope to slice it up this afternoon....

Regards, Rich
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 14, 2015, 01:10:47 pm
And, the point....

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/IMG_20150114_154900_zps3061dac2.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/IMG_20150114_154900_zps3061dac2.jpg.html)


(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/IMG_20150114_154907_zpsb6466e22.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/IMG_20150114_154907_zpsb6466e22.jpg.html)


(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/IMG_20150114_154911_zpscbc82bce.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/IMG_20150114_154911_zpscbc82bce.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: tailfeathers on January 14, 2015, 01:26:46 pm
Looks like a lot of top shelf sammies in your future!


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Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 14, 2015, 02:05:45 pm
Looks like a lot of top shelf sammies in your future!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, gotta vacseal asap. My work is never done! Tough life, but somebodies got to live it.....

(My wife put her order in for a rueben for dinner tonight....)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: tailfeathers on January 14, 2015, 02:19:01 pm

Looks like a lot of top shelf sammies in your future!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, gotta vacseal asap. My work is never done! Tough life, but somebodies got to live it.....

(My wife put her order in for a rueben for dinner tonight....)
make mine a double!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 14, 2015, 07:10:34 pm
There you go!

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu28/rrchambers/IMG_20150114_191208_zpsaca9f391.jpg) (http://s630.photobucket.com/user/rrchambers/media/IMG_20150114_191208_zpsaca9f391.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: oil99 on January 14, 2015, 07:43:22 pm
Awesome job love the MSM!


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Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: dave01 on January 14, 2015, 11:30:48 pm
Really looks good
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2015, 06:01:18 pm
Dang good looking sammie! :)
Title: Re: Montreal Smoked Meat
Post by: Smokeville on January 15, 2015, 07:17:17 pm
After eating several pounds I might say that the MSM could have used a little more pepper and some crushed chilis.... I deliberately left out the chilis this time because last time I had too much zip....

Which means I have to try again. Darn it!

Rich