BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Bradley Smokers => The Digital Smokers (BTDS76P & BTDS108P) => Topic started by: Orion on November 01, 2015, 07:55:41 pm

Title: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 01, 2015, 07:55:41 pm
Well, three mods down, two to go. Got my second element installed using a new and simple means of attaching it... 3 clamps, 3 standoffs and a little hardware.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3693_zpstmvvtw3b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3693_zpstmvvtw3b.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3673_zpstvat62uv.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3673_zpstvat62uv.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3697_zps2aaqofsq.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3697_zps2aaqofsq.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3698_zpscgyzghwc.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3698_zpscgyzghwc.jpg.html)

The clamp on each end of 2nd element is a loose fit to allow expansion of ceramics and the inner clamp is snug to secure element.

Cabinet went from 65' F to 250'f in 10 minutes.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 01, 2015, 07:59:49 pm
I also modified the puck burner location and feeder chute. Cut feeder chute to prevent puck hanging up on it and lowered the burner plate by 3/16ths " to ensure positive puck drop and isolate chute from the heat.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3695_zpsbfjrlhvi.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3695_zpsbfjrlhvi.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3696_zpsajhczf3s.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3696_zpsajhczf3s.jpg.html)

This will eliminate troubles in this area.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 01, 2015, 08:03:06 pm
And thirdly, I installed a motor and fan to ensure better heat dispersion and moisture removal.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3699_zpszwror1se.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3699_zpszwror1se.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3700_zpswf4guxe5.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3700_zpswf4guxe5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 01, 2015, 08:06:42 pm
Next I will be adding an interior light and getting an Auber PID to control the temps and ramping times for sausage. In buying a PDI they offer three choices of cabinet temp probes... clip on, hang from vent or mounted to wall. What type are you guys using and why?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 01, 2015, 08:08:22 pm
The clamping method of mounting the second element also enables you to space the two elements out generously for better heat distribution.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Mr Walleye on November 02, 2015, 04:44:01 am
Looks good Orion!

For the temp probe I would go with the clip on. The wall mount is too restrictive and my opinion is dropping them through the vent gets in the way when rotating racks. I usually simply clip the probe so it is reading the temps before the air is influenced by the meat, usually lower than the meat. If you use the wall mount one and have a load of meat below it, the meat will influence the temp readings your getting.

Mike
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: sledhead01 on November 02, 2015, 07:53:50 am
Orion,
Great Job.  The pics are to shelf as well.
A few questions for you, is your smoker a 4 rack or 6?  Where did you get the fan from and is it a oven fan?  How high is it mounted in the cabinet, what rack# is it behind from the bottom?
I am looking at doing the same thing.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 02, 2015, 01:01:30 pm
sledhead01,

Its a BDS 4 rack. Fan came from an oven/range assy. It is a convection oven fan and has a burner element and shroud that surrounds the fan on the oven side. I removed the element and shroud and just used the fan assy. The fan has two impellors, one outside for cooling the little motor and a larger one i9nside the smoker for distributing air and heat.

The CL of the fan is on plane with the second rack from the bottom. This puts the impellor slighter lower than half way above the elements. Seemed like the logical location as its intent is to move air up.

Later on, when I build a large smoker I will put the convection element and shroud to good use.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 02, 2015, 01:10:30 pm
The clamps I used are: two 3/4" with the rubber sleeves removed. These I positioned and centered over the ceramic end caps on the 2nd element to more or less locate it correctly. These two are a loose fit to allow the ceramic ends to expand with heat and not crack.

The 3rd clamp is 3/8" and it is a snug fit on the element itself to ensure it does not shift. The attach hardware and standoffs are all 3/16" .
You should put an second fusible link inline with the second element to ensure it's current is disrupted in the event of an overheat or fire.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 02, 2015, 01:54:01 pm
Looks good Orion!

For the temp probe I would go with the clip on. The wall mount is too restrictive and my opinion is dropping them through the vent gets in the way when rotating racks. I usually simply clip the probe so it is reading the temps before the air is influenced by the meat, usually lower than the meat. If you use the wall mount one and have a load of meat below it, the meat will influence the temp readings your getting.

Mike

Thanks Mike, that all makes perfect sense.

Only problem now is trying to purchase the Auber PID. With the Canadian dollar so low and expensive shipping costs out of the USA and duty I'd be lucky to get into one for less than $280 Canadian. Ouch!

I was wondering If a simpler temp probe for in the sausage and watching it closely would work. Dry and smoke at less than 150 and then dial it up and watch closely...when IT reaches 152 pull it? Would this be a workable plan?

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on November 02, 2015, 03:23:13 pm
Looks good, do you find making the modification to the puck burner necessary? I had a look at mine and the whole puck seems to burn just fine. Haven't had a good look but do you need to do both? Drop the plate burner and cut out the feeder? I wanted to add an internal light also, what have you decided on? I may install it in the enclosure that I made for it.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 02, 2015, 05:20:02 pm
Hi GT,

In my instance, the feed chute had to be cut. It was necessary to enable the pucks to come clear of the chute. Before I notched the chute, the puck to be burnt would be left laying on the chute by about 3/16ths". As a result the pucks would begin to burn on one end before the other and in 20 minutes the burn was not complete. As the pucks shuffle along every 20 minutes they are in contact with each other, (one pushes another). The burning pucks trailing edge was always in contact with the next puck in line to burn. The late ignition of the burning pucks trailing edge, (laying on chute) was enough to ignite the next puck before it's time so when the second puck was pushed onto the burner it was already burning on its now leading edge. So the problem just escalates as you burn more pucks. The leading edges ignite faster and faster and burns beyond the designed amount and the trailing edges continue to ignite too soon.

There may be other ways to alter or adjust the feed mechanism to ensure the puck is pushed completely on to the burner however I did not want to mess with the travel arm adjustment or micro switch to find out. Cutting out the feed chute seemed simpler and logical.

As far as lowering the burn plate, that only made sense to me. This way the pucks drop down and some distance, (3/16") is put between the chute and burner. Although the pucks are still in contact to maintain the proper push  the area of contact is less as the burning puck sits lower. This means the puck has to be well into its burn before it can begin to ignite the puck adjacent to it. This way pucks are not burning before their time. It's only two little screws that retain the burner and you have to undo them to notch the chute so why not change them out with slightly longer and place a few washers between the chute and burner while you are in there.

I would expect a puck to burn reasonably evenly and to the correct degree within its 20 minute slot. This was definitely not the case in my machine. You can easily hook all your cords up with the smoke generator sitting beside the cabinet and use the puck advance button to cycle them through to see for yourself how your unit is operating. I don't think they all do what mine was doing but with  several variables (including assembly tolerances) affecting puck travel and final placement some are experiences the same results as I was. 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 02, 2015, 05:37:20 pm
I have cycled the pucks since the chute mod and it places them off the chute entirely but 3/16" of puck trailing edge still is not on the burner. I will be moving the burner towards the chute by that amount by simply drilling two new burner mount holes. The burner sits below the chute now and with two new holes and two notches in the chute it will be clear to move closer to the chute.

It is inherent in the design of having one puck push another (contact) that the 2nd puck will be lit before it's time. This is the main reason the feed chutes get fouled with burnt wood and need to be scraped frequently. My intention is to get a more even and complete burn of each puck and keep the chute cleaner. If nothings burning on it, it won't get fouled.

I have a high temp light assy from an oven (120 VAC) and that will be the final mod I do. It has a nice clear glass lens and I will probably mount it on the back wall in the upper right corner. Both the fan and the light will be run on a separate circuit from the SG and cabinet heater to ensure excessive watts are not run through the BDS.   
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on November 03, 2015, 04:00:58 pm
I had a look at mine and ran through the cycle and it seems most of the time the puck is on the burner, however the mod you did may help it to burn evenly. What did you use to cut out the chute? Let me know how drilling the new wholes goes I may do the same so the pucks are pushed more on the burner.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/03/f114f599bc7c8d3069ef99ecf1b6b465.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/03/e1e782a0ab4f334fc6a6eabb81a9ea38.jpg)

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 03, 2015, 04:28:30 pm
GT,

Your pictures perfectly illustrate the point I was trying to convey. You can see how the leading puck is sitting at an angle with less than stellar contact on the burner. Also the puck to puck contact is what leads to pre-ignition of the trailing puck. If you clean your burner until just the black burning area is left you will see that the outline on the burner does not mirror a puck.

I marked the chute with a felt pen and then ground it out with a die grinder and rotary file. It is stainless steel so you need a good sharp rotary file. Be careful when handling the chute as the two little rails are minimally spot welded on and come free if too much force is applied to them. One of mine came off and I riveted back on, (see pics I previous post for rivets).

I think this small issue varies from unit to unit due to assembly tolerances. Some are better than others. Mine was not good in terms of puck placement.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on November 03, 2015, 04:41:02 pm
So cutting out the chute will make the puck on the burner flat so its not on a angle right. I will still need to adjust the wholes as you mentioned so the puck gets pushed more on the burner. I guess to do this I will need to drill new burner wholes. How big of the screws did you use to do the drop? Love this others helping others :)

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 03, 2015, 04:52:03 pm
Yes, cut a small crescent moon shape from the chute that mirrors the radius of the puck. It does not have to be too big, just enough to allow the puck to clear the chute . To re-attach the burner after cutting the chute I used two 3/16ths bolts about 1/4" long. This gave me enough length to install 3 washers between the chute frame and burner which in turn lowered the burner by the depth of the 3 washers.

I am going to run a trial smoke before I consider moving the burner closer to the chute. I want to see how well the first mod improves puck burning and prevents pre-ignition. IF the pucks burn evenly it will not be necessary to reposition the burner.

Again, look closely at the pics I posted and you shouldn't have any problems. Be aware, if your unit is less than a year old these changes may affect your warranty.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on November 03, 2015, 04:53:49 pm
Thanks let me know how it goes, I had my until for about 2-3years so warranty came and gone

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 03, 2015, 05:13:45 pm
I must thank renoman as he is the one that first thought of altering the feed chute and posted all his information and pictures which was a great help to me in making my adjustments. Thanks renoman!
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Rider14 on November 04, 2015, 03:35:25 pm
Don't you want the second puck to ignite before the consumed puck drops to ensure there is always smoke? Orion, I love your mods to the smoker, but by having only one puck burn at a time, you are adding minutes where there is no smoke while the new new puck has to heat up. I believe the 'pre-ignition' is by design...  Or no? Anyone know for sure?

 -Dan
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 04, 2015, 03:48:22 pm
You could have a valid point Rider14. Remember though, one puck always contacts the next in line so if the mod improves the combustion of the first one by placing it flat on the burner there is no danger of it not beginning to burn the second one. Also, the next puck in line is brought up in temperature by its proximity to the burner so will ignite readily when it arrives on the burner.

Renoman did this mod some time ago. Maybe he will chime in with his results. I will report as soon as I test it out. I just got tired of partially burnt pucks because they weren't laying flat on the burner.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 09, 2015, 07:24:55 pm
Had a request for detail on the light and fan assy.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3702_zpsmire0t2k.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3702_zpsmire0t2k.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3704_zpsqglpqzlf.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3704_zpsqglpqzlf.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/IMG_3705_zpskjjqpllq.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/IMG_3705_zpskjjqpllq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: CentDoss89 on November 17, 2015, 09:13:00 pm
I too was reading and really wanted to know a little more about your light and fan electrical. How are you wiring these and still having the sg and elements going? Also I may have missed it and I get the clamp sizes you used for your second element...but are those just stainless steel spacers? If so how tall are they what I'D and bolt size did you use?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 18, 2015, 07:02:21 pm
I too was reading and really wanted to know a little more about your light and fan electrical. How are you wiring these and still having the sg and elements going? Also I may have missed it and I get the clamp sizes you used for your second element...but are those just stainless steel spacers? If so how tall are they what I'D and bolt size did you use?

For the time being I have just put an electrical plug on the end of the wiring for both the fan and the light. These are plugged into a power bar which I run off a different home circuit than the circuit powering the elements and SG. My intent is to put a receptacle on the smoker and then a switch on the light and fan plugs so they can be turned on and off independently.

The spacers for the second element are aluminum alloy and are about 1 inch long. It doesn't matter what material you use as long as it is food safe and can tolerate oven temps. The hardware is 3/16ths, otherwise known as 10-32. About 1 1/4" long screws. Notice the fender washers I used under the outer clamps hardware to provide a better platform and clamp effect for the outer clamps.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: CentDoss89 on November 25, 2015, 09:14:41 am
As far as your second element goes did you do the simple wire loop from first element or did you do yours on a separate switch to be able to turn the element on and off. I'm getting ready to purchase all the things to modify my Bradley with the second element and dual probe pid to start then go onto the light and fan mod.

Just with so many instructions out there on this it's hard to figure out the best route to go. I like the idea of the switch but at the same time I think that's what the PID is for? I don't know as I am very new to the electric smoker world.

Any help and guidance from anyone who has accomplished this is appreciated and instead of taking over the post please message me any details you all have.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: manfromplaid on November 25, 2015, 06:29:08 pm
centdoss89: I have the duel element mod and I run it without a switch. my pid does all the work and recovery times are quick. IMO just wire it in and use all the time.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on November 25, 2015, 06:34:29 pm
I would do the same, don't need to install a switch the PID is made to do all the work. With my 900 watt mod the recovery time is unreal even now with weather below -4C it is amazing, also the enclosure does help alot.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on November 26, 2015, 02:07:51 am
One of the reasons I installed a switch, is as a safety backup. If my temperature controller failed, I can easily shut off the second element and run it as a stock Bradley. Secondly, I store my Bradley outside 24/7, under a Bradley cover. There are several times when I smoke/cook something I don't need the temperature controller, or the extra heat; so I can just run my Bradley without hooking everything up. Third, sometimes I will just want to test a recipe just using the stock features of the Bradley, to see how long it will take from start to finish; using one element.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: manfromplaid on November 26, 2015, 07:08:32 am
as you can see, there are different opinion's so the best way is to do what you think will work best for yourself.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on November 26, 2015, 01:42:46 pm
Couldn't agree more :)

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Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on November 27, 2015, 01:57:52 am
I'll third that. :)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: CentDoss89 on November 29, 2015, 06:35:50 pm
I do completely agree that there's no one right way to do it. Because to one person something may be easier than to others or just the fact of the components needed may be in short supply for someone.

I myself just like the opinions and advice from others trials because it just adds to my wealth of knowledge for what worked and what didn't. Kind of my way of trial and error through others as they say.

I'm hopefully going to be purchasing wire, connectors, and components needed to complete my modifications soon!!
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: CentDoss89 on December 11, 2015, 06:49:40 am
Ok so after failing to find an actual appliance repair shop that carried the wire and connectors I need and nothing being concise enough on the old interweb....what in the heck are specs for the wire to be used?

I'm finding stuff like "high temper lead wire" or "silicone treated heat resistant" I just don't wanna burn my house down!
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Salmonsmoker on December 11, 2015, 07:27:35 am
I'm sure that if you went to an appliance recycle business, they'd have plenty of high temp. wire from scrapped ranges and would probably give you a couple of feet.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 11, 2015, 07:48:32 am
Salmon smoker is right on the money. You don't have to make this more complicated than it is. I went to a appliance repair shop and asked politely if they could help me with some materials for my project. They pointed me at a oven/range that was in amazing condition and said "help yourself".

I got a high temp light assy, a convection fan and motor, all the high temp wiring I could ever need, some high temp insulation batting and a handy rack for $25.

The wiring you are after has a fibrous/fabric type insulation sheath and is found under the stove top in close proximity to the elements. The wiring behind the range assy and in the control panel has a plastic type insulation and is NOT what you want to use. You will probably find that the high temp stuff even has the correct ring terminal on one end so it's best to undo it properly rather than just go in with side cutters and cut it out. Either way will work though. If the shops wont help you there must be an appliance recycling yard or dump you could visit.

All you need to find is an old range. Look in the classifieds for a free one if you have to. All you need is 12" of wire.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on December 11, 2015, 01:16:11 pm
I had the same issue no one wanted to server me so I was stuck in buying it online from amazon

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 14, 2015, 11:14:30 am
Burner Mod Results;

HUGE improvement in puck burning since the chute cut out and lowering modification!

These are the puck results prior to mod. Notice the extreme pre ignition on the two pucks on the right and the incomplete combustion on the left hand puck. Left hand was the puck that straddled the burner and chute and right hand pucks are examples on the ones that trailed the burning puck.

 (http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3914_zpsfptlmut6.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3914_zpsfptlmut6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 14, 2015, 11:18:43 am
Bottom view of combustion after mod...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3920_zpss6ehlqbw.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3920_zpss6ehlqbw.jpg.html)

Top view of combustion after mod...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3921_zpsxojlctvg.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3921_zpsxojlctvg.jpg.html)

Minimal pre-ignition of trailing puck after mod...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3922_zpsacmmq6yy.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3922_zpsacmmq6yy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on December 14, 2015, 11:21:17 am
Wow huge improvement, so you needed up lowering the burner plate and cutting the chute?

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Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 14, 2015, 11:21:26 am
Burner and chute condition after 7 hours smoke time...

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk300/logonphoto/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3918_zpsmgullkzl.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/logonphoto/media/Kielbasa%20Dec%202015/IMG_3918_zpsmgullkzl.jpg.html)

This mod is easily done, costs next to nothing and will greatly improve burner performance and reduce maintenance in terms of cleaning.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 14, 2015, 11:25:48 am
Wow huge improvement, so you needed up lowering the burner plate and cutting the chute?

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Yes, cut the chute and lowered the burner 3/16ths. It is all detailed in this thread. I am definitely getting a full burn now which saves money and time. Next I will cut the chute back a little more and shift the burner back towards the chute.   
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on December 14, 2015, 05:44:50 pm
If you do that don't you have to adjust the sensor or the belt Inside as its preconfigured to push the  puck to a certain length.

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Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 15, 2015, 05:06:47 pm
Short answer...no.

The puck advance mechanism pushes the puck a certain distance. As received from factory, the pucks would not advance entirely past the chute and completely onto the burner.

Remedy: cut crescent shape out of chute so that without adjusting travel the puck drops off the chute.

Puck is now clear of chute however it is still not sitting 100% on the burner. It is sitting flat and it is clear of the chute however it's lower surface is straddling the burner by about 1/4" on the trailing edge.

Remedy:  Notch burner rail and elongate(or relocate) burner mount holes to enable shifting the burner plate towards the chute. Now when the puck travels its factory set distance it drops clear of the chute and is sitting 100% on the burner plate. I'm willing to suggest that once this is done the upper surface of a puck will be burnt  in its entirety.

Lowering the burner plate by 3/16th's reduces the pre-ignition.

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on December 16, 2015, 03:52:54 pm
Awesome will pm of you don't mind after Xmas to do this mod in case I need help. Just doing some serious smoking this xmass and don't want to mess anything up. Did you end up getting the dual PID I know you were debating?

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Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 16, 2015, 06:34:46 pm
I have not purchased a PID yet. I really can't justify spending that kind of money especially with the exchange rate at about $1.40. I was able to make Mr. Walleyes amazing kielbasa by limiting the smoker temperatures to less than 170 F and finishing them in a water bath with which I used a instant reading temp probe. It worked well and I will continue on that road until the Auber cost is more practical.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on January 02, 2016, 06:12:43 pm
Orion, did you find the fan at that location helps? Reason for asking people have been putting then just right above the v-trap (drip tray). Just looking for a fan now so I can install one.

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Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on January 05, 2016, 11:36:11 am
Yes, locating the fan as described in this thread works well.

First thing I noticed with the fan is that the stock temperature probe reading increased. With the cabinet temperature stable (as stable as it gets) at 160 I turned the fan on and the temp reading rose quickly to 180. This tells me that the heat in the smoker can be isolated in pockets below the drip tray and the fan moves the air around to create a more even temp throughout the cabinet.

My sausage products also go through the initial warm and dry cycle much faster and more evenly. I find I turn my racks less frequently with the fan installed where it is. 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: cycleguy55 on January 30, 2016, 01:58:00 pm
Well, three mods down, two to go. Got my second element installed using a new and simple means of attaching it... 3 clamps, 3 standoffs and a little hardware.

The clamp on each end of 2nd element is a loose fit to allow expansion of ceramics and the inner clamp is snug to secure element.

Cabinet went from 65' F to 250'f in 10 minutes.

My inclination would be to use  two end clamps as you did, but tighten only one of them, leaving the other loose as a support that would let the element slide as it expanded and contracted.  Did you consider this method?  Your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on January 30, 2016, 03:23:02 pm
If you examine the installation of the original element you will see that it is supported on each end within the ceramic blocks. These two support points are a slip fit. This insulates the element to reduce heat transfer and allows for the ceramic ends of the element to expand under heat. The third attach point fir the original element is a snug fit band clamp that locates the element securely and prevents it from shifting left or right.

My installation of the second element duplicates that principle. The two clamps on the ends of the second element  have an inside diameter that when tight, allows for expansion of the ceramic ends of the element. If the slip fit did not exist, there is a likelihood that the ceramic end could crack. There should be some allowance for expansion.

It's a red hot piece of metal with 120 VAC running through it so the third clamp; metal to metal, ensures it wont shift left or right. I have found the installation works well and when the time comes, replacement will be easy.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on January 30, 2016, 03:26:07 pm
Just to clarify, the element ceramic ends will expand radially as well as longitudinally.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: fremontfrank1 on February 18, 2016, 11:33:53 pm
thank you Orion,
Newbie here to brads. But old man to creo problems. Was wondering about my puck burns. Like mod, makes great since, should also help on any bitter smoke because of complete burns. And not letting next puck not burning when not needed. even though I will still be trying blanks at end time. Also using lasagna dispo pan for water bath, more mass for heat and drince bath. Other than heat up grade mod, will work this into mine to. Sorry physics wins out on element clamps, the way you did it is right on. metal expanse longitudinal and circumferential. Since the one metal clamp in middle is cheap metal clamp it to will expand with element and not interfere with heating.     
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on March 16, 2016, 09:09:30 pm
Quick question for you Orion, did you just run a new wire from the existing element lug to the new element lug? Or was there some additional wiring involved, can't really tell by the photos. But I too live in Canada (Winnipeg) and know all about shutting down for 4+ months of the year. Can't decide on whether to do the second 500 watt mod or go to the 725 Watt element?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: TedEbear on March 17, 2016, 04:18:11 am
Quick question for you Orion, did you just run a new wire from the existing element lug to the new element lug?

That's how I did mine, just a short 3-4 inch loop of wire on each end from the original element to the new one.  Mine has been that way for 3-4 years. I also added a PID controller at the same time because they say the factory controller is not designed to handle the higher wattage.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on March 17, 2016, 05:55:45 am
Quick question for you Orion, did you just run a new wire from the existing element lug to the new element lug? Or was there some additional wiring involved, can't really tell by the photos. But I too live in Canada (Winnipeg) and know all about shutting down for 4+ months of the year. Can't decide on whether to do the second 500 watt mod or go to the 725 Watt element?

I wired mine a little differently from what you have described however your method would work fine as TedEBear confirms.

I removed the smokers back panel to expose the terminal connections and wires powering the original element. I then cut the spade connectors off the original element wires and crimped two new ones on the original  wires along with a new wire on each connector to feed the second element. This enabled me to put a fuse in the back panel area for ther second element.

In short... the elements are run in parallel right from the spade connectors at the back panel and each element is fused independently.

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on March 17, 2016, 11:13:37 am
Quick question for you Orion, did you just run a new wire from the existing element lug to the new element lug?

That's how I did mine, just a short 3-4 inch loop of wire on each end from the original element to the new one.  Mine has been that way for 3-4 years. I also added a PID controller at the same time because they say the factory controller is not designed to handle the higher wattage.

There lies the issue that seems to be overlooked, the Smoke Generator may OR may not be capable to handle the addition of 500 Watts on it. That being said if someone does this mod, or the 725 Element mod, and doesn't get a PID then there may be damage to the circuitry of the Controller. Either way the mod becomes an expensive upgrade either with a PID or risking frying your Smoke Generator. Now I have a lot to think of and take under consideration. Thank You TedEbear and Orion 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on March 18, 2016, 07:26:20 am
Orion: Did you end up installing the light?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: wurzel on July 15, 2016, 04:26:11 pm
This forum is a godsend for the electrically illiterate like me, thanks to all of you for sharing. On to my (illiterate) question;

If you wire it element to element as TedEbear did and use a PID controller would that remove the rational for a second fuse or would it still be safer to wire them in parallel with separate fuses?

Cheers.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on July 16, 2016, 01:30:29 am
Those that add the second inline fuse, and temp sensor, do so as an extra precaution. I didn't add them when I added the additional element.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: wurzel on July 18, 2016, 08:47:18 am
Ok, one more question and I promise to just get on with it and do it ;)

If you're not adding the inline fuse and temp sensor is there any advantage to wiring it in parallel rather than hooking the new element up to the old one as TedEBear did?

It seems to me that this route would mean the new element is protected by the existing in-line first, the same as the old one. I'd assume that's not a good as a dedicated fuse for each but better than nothing... I'm useless at electrics though so happy to be corrected. Looks a lot simpler to do too of course :D

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on July 18, 2016, 01:15:08 pm
I haven't wired mine that way, but those that have haven't posted any problems with the fuse and sensor blowing.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on July 18, 2016, 04:46:30 pm
Ok, one more question and I promise to just get on with it and do it ;)

If you're not adding the inline fuse and temp sensor is there any advantage to wiring it in parallel rather than hooking the new element up to the old one as TedEBear did?

It seems to me that this route would mean the new element is protected by the existing in-line first, the same as the old one. I'd assume that's not a good as a dedicated fuse for each but better than nothing... I'm useless at electrics though so happy to be corrected. Looks a lot simpler to do too of course :D

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

Hello wurzel,

I'm no electrical wizard either. I wired my second 500 watt element completely independent of the original one because I had a surplus of appropriate high temp wire and I felt that the factory wiring used to power the original element might not be sufficient to carry the current for the additional element.

 For this reason I ran a wire from each end of the second element all the way back through rear panel and connected them directly to the power source where the original element wires get their power. If the wiring for the first element ever fails the second element will still work and vise versa.

As far as the thermal fuse; if you wire the unit like I did, each element should have one as each element has power available in an overheat situation. However, if you simply jump the second element off the terminals on the first element an overheat situation should interrupt power to both elements in an over heat situation.

Personally, I never leave my smoker unattended for more than an hour and even then I'm not far away. I know they are designed to be fully automatic and safe but I simply won't take the chance as people have had fires for various reasons including failures to load the smoker correctly or clean it properly.

Wire it either way and simply keep a reasonable eye on it is my advise.   
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: wurzel on July 25, 2016, 03:07:47 pm
Good point orion, I hadn't thought about one element working if the other goes. Definitely worth the extra hassle to not lose a whole smoker full of meat if the worst does happen. Thanks for that.

I couldn't figure out if it was OK to connect both wires into a single spade connector, that pic is blurry in both Mr. Walleye's and test rocket's instructions. After a while I found this though http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-spade-terminal-piggy-back-connecters-red-l26ay

Seems like it'll do the job nicely without making me check it every 10 minutes in case my dodgy wiring has burnt my garage down :D

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on July 26, 2016, 01:28:19 am
Good point orion, I hadn't thought about one element working if the other goes. Definitely worth the extra hassle to not lose a whole smoker full of meat if the worst does happen. Thanks for that.

I couldn't figure out if it was OK to connect both wires into a single spade connector, that pic is blurry in both Mr. Walleye's and test rocket's instructions. After a while I found this though http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-spade-terminal-piggy-back-connecters-red-l26ay

Seems like it'll do the job nicely without making me check it every 10 minutes in case my dodgy wiring has burnt my garage down :D

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

Connecting the hot wire from the second element to the spade that contains the hot wire at the back of the cabinet, and the neutral wire from the second element to the spade that contains the neutral wire at the back of the cabinet; is how Mr. Walleye connected the wiring.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: TedEbear on July 26, 2016, 04:25:45 am
Good point orion, I hadn't thought about one element working if the other goes. Definitely worth the extra hassle to not lose a whole smoker full of meat if the worst does happen. Thanks for that.

If you wire them in parallel with a short 3-4" loop of wire at each end of the two elements, the way I did several years ago, it will not matter if one element goes out.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on July 26, 2016, 06:38:55 pm

Hello wurzel,

I'm no electrical wizard either. I wired my second 500 watt element completely independent of the original one because I had a surplus of appropriate high temp wire and I felt that the factory wiring used to power the original element might not be sufficient to carry the current for the additional element.

 For this reason I ran a wire from each end of the second element all the way back through rear panel and connected them directly to the power source where the original element wires get their power. If the wiring for the first element ever fails the second element will still work and vise versa.

As far as the thermal fuse; if you wire the unit like I did, each element should have one as each element has power available in an overheat situation. However, if you simply jump the second element off the terminals on the first element an overheat situation should interrupt power to both elements in an over heat situation.

Personally, I never leave my smoker unattended for more than an hour and even then I'm not far away. I know they are designed to be fully automatic and safe but I simply won't take the chance as people have had fires for various reasons including failures to load the smoker correctly or clean it properly.

Wire it either way and simply keep a reasonable eye on it is my advise.

Just to clarify my previous post...wiring the second element in parallel to the original and running the wires for the second element from the spade connectors at the rear wall connector ensures the second element still runs in the event the wiring supplying the original element fails.

If the elements are wired in parallel, it doesn't matter if you run the wires all the way from the spade connectors or simply use 3-4" jumpers to connect the second element...either way if an element fails the other will still work.

Let us know how you make out wurzel.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: wurzel on July 29, 2016, 11:08:50 am
A little update;

Got the second element in and working. I've done it in parallel to the spade connectors, I already had the piggy back connectors and wanted to use them

Connected it up to the pid to check and I was so pleased with myself when I saw both elements come on, first mod like this I've ever done and it worked thanks to you fellas.

Put it on today to get my brisket and butt in at 6am... Elements working through the pid fine but lots of beeping from the Bradley, E1. Did all the fiddling to no avail, pulled the back off and found I'd disconnected one of the wires on the temp sensor. No problem, solder it back on and hey presto! Still lots of beeping and E1 nonsense... Couldn't figure it out, must have bust it while I was messing around back there. Found paulsnapp's post on the sensor bypass plug... Trip to the electronic store and a bit of soldering later and we're in action.

I lost a day on my cook but that's fine, I can live an extra day with no 'cue.

Thanks a lot for all your help guys, this forum is a godsend.

(http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w519/wurzelphone/380e4850-709b-4df2-84f5-a96a5e28389a_zps29ci1ene.jpg) (http://s1079.photobucket.com/user/wurzelphone/media/380e4850-709b-4df2-84f5-a96a5e28389a_zps29ci1ene.jpg.html)

so pretty

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 03, 2016, 02:17:01 am
The E1 error is caused by the sensor cable. Even though the PID is controlling the heat, you still must have the sensor cable plugged in for the generator to work and move the bisquettes to the heating pad. If the sensor cable is plugged in, make sure it is plugged in securely. If that is not the problem, take the back off and make sure that any of the wiring to the sensor hasn't been accidently disconnected.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on November 26, 2017, 06:52:24 am
Bumping this to the top. There has been a lot of questions about second elements and puck burning and chute issues.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on February 18, 2018, 03:14:54 pm
What I read, many added a second heat element together with the existing one to the Bradley digital controller. What's the experience in the meanwhile? Does the controller handle the additional load without problems?
I plan to do the mod on 230V. But I'm not sure, if I should connect the second element to the controller without using a relay.
Regards,Helmut
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on February 18, 2018, 03:43:03 pm
I wouldn't connect the second element to the controller, I don't think it can handle the load. Some added a switch so they can turn on the 2nd element then need to. I went with the 900 watt and a digital PID and never looked back.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on February 19, 2018, 03:19:28 am
I wouldn't connect the second element to the controller, I don't think it can handle the load. Some added a switch so they can turn on the 2nd element then need to. I went with the 900 watt and a digital PID and never looked back.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
Thanks, I also prefer not to connect both elements directly to the Bradley controller. My plan is to install a relay to handle both elements. These would cut off current from the controller completely.
Which 900 watt element did you use?
There are several threads around but most are old and have bad links to instructions or parts for the mod.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Salmonsmoker on February 19, 2018, 07:19:41 am
heli76, i have a tempco finned element. I don't have the model # readily available, but with a little research you can find the right one. The one I have is the right length to very closely "bolt up" to existing brackets and has a connector on each end. If you were going to re-wire, there's one that has both connections on one end, if you prefer.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on February 19, 2018, 08:05:08 am
heli76, i have a tempco finned element. I don't have the model # readily available, but with a little research you can find the right one. The one I have is the right length to very closely "bolt up" to existing brackets and has a connector on each end. If you were going to re-wire, there's one that has both connections on one end, if you prefer.
I assume, it's this one.

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/TEMPCO-Finned-Strip-Heater-2XEF3

Have to find a similar one for 230/240V.

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on February 19, 2018, 08:33:53 am
This is the one I bought

https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/product/p/WWG2XEF3 (https://www.acklandsgrainger.com/product/p/WWG2XEF3)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on February 19, 2018, 12:55:45 pm
What's about the mod with the fan? Is it really  useful? It seems to me that not many installed a fan.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on February 19, 2018, 06:03:42 pm
What I read, many added a second heat element together with the existing one to the Bradley digital controller. What's the experience in the meanwhile? Does the controller handle the additional load without problems?
I plan to do the mod on 230V. But I'm not sure, if I should connect the second element to the controller without using a relay.
Regards,Helmut

Hey Helmut, In response to your question: As this thread explains, I simply added a second 500 watt element identical to the original and wired it to the spade connectors in the back wall of the cabinet where the first (original) element connects. The two elements are thus wired in 'parallel'. This installation has never failed or given me any problems. I just kept it simple and it works.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on February 19, 2018, 06:13:19 pm
What's about the mod with the fan? Is it really  useful? It seems to me that not many installed a fan.

The fan I installed came from a convection oven and improves the heat distribution in the cabinet. Before the fan was put in I found the lower racks saw far more heat than the top one and I had to rotate the racks from top to bottom frequently on long cooks to ensure the lower racks did not overcook before the top was done. Now I rotate racks less and when I do it's primarily front to back rather than top to bottom. It also helps dispel the moisture when food is first put in.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on February 19, 2018, 10:38:45 pm
What I read, many added a second heat element together with the existing one to the Bradley digital controller. What's the experience in the meanwhile? Does the controller handle the additional load without problems?
I plan to do the mod on 230V. But I'm not sure, if I should connect the second element to the controller without using a relay.
Regards,Helmut

Hey Helmut, In response to your question: As this thread explains, I simply added a second 500 watt element identical to the original and wired it to the spade connectors in the back wall of the cabinet where the first (original) element connects. The two elements are thus wired in 'parallel'. This installation has never failed or given me any problems. I just kept it simple and it works.
Thanks, do you have both elements running on a digital version? 120V or 240V?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on February 19, 2018, 10:40:37 pm
What's about the mod with the fan? Is it really  useful? It seems to me that not many installed a fan.

The fan I installed came from a convection oven and improves the heat distribution in the cabinet. Before the fan was put in I found the lower racks saw far more heat than the top one and I had to rotate the racks from top to bottom frequently on long cooks to ensure the lower racks did not overcook before the top was done. Now I rotate racks less and when I do it's primarily front to back rather than top to bottom. It also helps dispel the moisture when food is first put in.
Are the fans also working while you are smoking? Does it push out the smoke more quickly?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on February 20, 2018, 05:47:54 pm
I have both elements running in a 120 VAC Digital model. Works fine.

 My fan is on a separate plug and I run it full bore after preheating the smoker and the meat I am smoking is in it's dry out/warm up stage. During this time I have the vent wide open. Then when I begin the smoke I just close the vent to about 2/3rd's open. After smoking I open the vent fully again.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Shasta bob on February 20, 2018, 07:11:56 pm
Has any one ever put a fan in that runs for 1 minute then off for 3 minutes like a timer? just food for thought.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: javp92 on March 11, 2018, 07:54:16 am
I have both elements running in a 120 VAC Digital model. Works fine.

 My fan is on a separate plug and I run it full bore after preheating the smoker and the meat I am smoking is in it's dry out/warm up stage. During this time I have the vent wide open. Then when I begin the smoke I just close the vent to about 2/3rd's open. After smoking I open the vent fully again.
Thinking about doing the dual element mod, just to be clear,  are you controlling both elements from the stock digital unit? No need to get a pid?

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Gafala on March 11, 2018, 10:42:32 am
No you will need to use a PID to control them.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on March 16, 2018, 11:16:30 am
Today I checked the components on the PCB of my BDS (version for Europe with 240V).
The power relay for heating element can handle 1200W. (120VAC/10A, 240VAC/5A)
So the relay should be able to handle two elements. Also connectors and cables should have no problem with two elements on European version at 240V. There we only get a little over 4 Amps.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 16, 2018, 02:21:53 pm
Today I checked the components on the PCB of my BDS (version for Europe with 240V).
The power relay for heating element can handle 1200W. (120VAC/10A, 240VAC/5A)
So the relay should be able to handle two elements. Also connectors and cables should have no problem with two elements on European version at 240V. There we only get a little over 4 Amps.

Don't forget to calculate the watts that the bisquette burner will be pulling.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on March 16, 2018, 03:37:59 pm
Don't forget to calculate the watts that the bisquette burner will be pulling.

Bisquette burner has it's own power relay as it's switched separately.
PCB has three identical relays for:
- heating element
- bisquette burner
- bisquette feeder
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on March 16, 2018, 04:02:32 pm
Thinking about doing the dual element mod, just to be clear,  are you controlling both elements from the stock digital unit? No need to get a pid?

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

Hey Javp92, I DO NOT use a Pid for temperature control. For my needs , the original temperature control combined with the two 500 watt elements  works just fine. If you require really precise temperature control then a Pid would be recommended. I couldn't justify the cost of a Pid to regulate temps in a smoke filled box to within 5 degrees +/- as opposed to within 20 degrees +/-. 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on March 16, 2018, 04:04:09 pm


Bisquette burner has it's own power relay as it's switched separately.
PCB has three identical relays for:
- heating element
- bisquette burner
- bisquette feeder

Great to know, thanks.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on March 19, 2018, 11:33:41 am
So Orion, if I'm reading your posts correctly you've been running your smoker with 2 x 500w heating elements without a PID without any issues? As heli76 posted the bisquette runs off its on circuit, so it works without issues without a PID? 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: javp92 on March 19, 2018, 11:58:56 am
Thinking about doing the dual element mod, just to be clear,  are you controlling both elements from the stock digital unit? No need to get a pid?

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

Hey Javp92, I DO NOT use a Pid for temperature control. For my needs , the original temperature control combined with the two 500 watt elements  works just fine. If you require really precise temperature control then a Pid would be recommended. I couldn't justify the cost of a Pid to regulate temps in a smoke filled box to within 5 degrees +/- as opposed to within 20 degrees +/-.
Thx for the reply! Will try this mod soon!

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on March 21, 2018, 08:31:14 am
So Orion, if I'm reading your posts correctly you've been running your smoker with 2 x 500w heating elements without a PID without any issues? As heli76 posted the bisquette runs off its on circuit, so it works without issues without a PID?

You are correct.
2 x 500 watt elements wired in parallel, no PID, no issues.

Cabinet heats up much faster and transfers heat to product being smoked faster. Particularly useful in climates such as mine in Edmonton and yours in Winterpeg. 

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on April 12, 2018, 03:06:06 pm
Well Orion I finally bit the bullet and modified my Bradley smoker and installed a second 500w element. Very impressive the way it now heats up!! I set the temperature at 250°F and cabinet temperature was 41°F, and within 15 minutes the temperature was 250°F and holding. Recovery is now fast even with opening the door :). Thanks to all who wrote their experiences, suggestions and ideas, works like a charm. 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on April 12, 2018, 03:17:02 pm
Interesting didn't know adding a second element didn't require a PID and the onboard controller board is capable of handling the current.

I went with the PID and 900 for myself however I may do the second element for my brother's smoker.

He has the digital one so would I simply just add a second element and run it parella with the first?

I assume the digital controller can handle the load. Do you have the non digital version? If so what happenes if you slide the slider all the way to high? What is the max temp can you go?

Did you mount the second element the same way as Orion?

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Gafala on April 12, 2018, 05:18:53 pm
I can only speak for my self, I added a the 900 watt heater to my 4 rack digital and also added a PID for better temp control then doing Sausages you need a tighter control of the temp. My temps stay to +- 2degs.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on April 12, 2018, 10:05:28 pm
Actually ghosttown I used Mr. Walleye's method of adding the second element in parallel. It just involved drilling 2 x 5/8" holes in the sides of reflector, pretty straight forward. I have the 6 rack digital Bradley.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on April 12, 2018, 10:07:15 pm
how true you are Gafala, a PID would be beneficial when smoking sausages, the temperature swing is bothersome.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: ghosttown on April 13, 2018, 02:59:47 am
Actually ghosttown I used Mr. Walleye's method of adding the second element in parallel. It just involved drilling 2 x 5/8" holes in the sides of reflector, pretty straight forward. I have the 6 rack digital Bradley.
Thanks, did he piggyback of the first element or run the wire to the back and tap in there? He mentioned he disable the sensor bypass because of the beeping noise, did you disable that as well?

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on April 13, 2018, 03:39:00 am
Actually ghosttown I used Mr. Walleye's method of adding the second element in parallel. It just involved drilling 2 x 5/8" holes in the sides of reflector, pretty straight forward. I have the 6 rack digital Bradley.
Please, show us some pictures. If possible also from wiring. How did you do the  isolation of the wiring contacts on the additional heating element?
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on April 13, 2018, 10:56:37 am
I just made up 2 x 6" 14 gauge jumper wires with round terminators at each end. I then removed the ceramic caps from the first element, ground slots in each end to accommodate the new jumper wire to run through. I then connected one end of each jumper from the existing element to my new element. That's it and works like a charm. The wiring and terminators are heat resistant and designed for stoves and areas with above normal heat. I ran the smoker at 250°F today for another 3 hours and it recovers quickly, even in a strong north wind with outside temperature of -4°C (25°F). No pictures, but if you check out Mr. Walleye's sight you'll see his pics, which I ran off of. The only difference was that Mr. Walleye ran his new wiring directly to the back and didn't just add a short Jumper.

If you go down the Bradley HOME page to Consumables and Accessories and then Accessories the first post is from Mr. Walleye and its called "Another Mod". That is where I found his pictures and info on this mod. all 6 pages.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on April 13, 2018, 11:37:03 am
I'm asking for electrical isolation of the wiring contacts on the second heating element. (Not the isolation against heat)
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on April 13, 2018, 01:24:16 pm
heli76, I'm not an Electrician and don't understand what you are asking? The jumper wire ran from left side on original element to left side on new element, and right side to right side. That was all the wiring I did.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on April 13, 2018, 02:29:15 pm
heli76, I'm not an Electrician and don't understand what you are asking? The jumper wire ran from left side on original element to left side on new element, and right side to right side. That was all the wiring I did.
So you can touch the left and right electrical connector of the second element? There you can get in touch of 110 or 240 volts when heating is on!
If I look on most pictures of mods, there is no protection against touching mains voltage on the second heating element.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Edward176 on April 13, 2018, 03:00:04 pm
Ah, got you, no my connections are exposed. You would have to touch both ends at the same time, I guess I could slip on a rubberized sleeve, Cold shrink one end to avoid any chance of electrical shock.  High Temperature Resistant Kapton Tape is readable available and looks like it'll fit the bill. To be honest the thought never occurred to me, but now you have me thinking. Thanks
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on April 13, 2018, 11:07:49 pm
You are wrong! It's enough to touch the end with the phase voltage, to get in trouble.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: TedEbear on May 11, 2018, 03:06:57 pm
I've had my second element wired the way Edward described for over 5 years and I've never been shocked.  The V-tray pretty much makes it hard to get to the exposed terminals unless you are really trying to do so.  I supposed I could give myself a third degree burn if I touched the heating element when it was glowing red, if I was really trying. 
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: heli76 on May 13, 2018, 10:56:23 am
Think about a defective heating element! In that situation you have no hot element and may check what's wrong. But you still have mains voltage at the contacts, when heating is on.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: TedEbear on May 13, 2018, 04:47:40 pm
I'd think that would make it all that much easier to diagnose a bad element by touching your multimeter probes to the exposed terminals and check for voltage at that point.  115V at the terminals and still no hot element pretty much narrows down the reason.

Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on May 14, 2018, 06:21:01 pm
Regarding hazards and safety when operating and trouble shooting.

Never attempt to trouble shoot with unit plugged in unless you are 110% confident you know what you are doing. An element can be diagnosed easily with no power on using the ohms function on a meter.

Life is full of hazards and if you go looking for them all the more chance of getting 'burnt'. Ever notice the warning tags on various items... radio tag says DO NOT OPERATE IN BATH, lawn mower says DO NOT TOUCH MOVING BLADE ect ect ect.

Once you alter or modify a product the onus is on you to know what you are doing and how to operate and maintain it in a safe manner.

I suggest that unless someone is fully aware and confident in what they are doing they either get the professional help needed or refrain from making changes. For those that are knowledgeable and able to maintain a safe work practise they are quite capable of dealing with the inherent hazards and carrying on without hurting themselves. If you don't put your hand on a hot stove it won't burn you.

I understand both sides of this discussion and would remind people that some are capable of making changes without creating a threat to their safety whereas others might do well to leave things as they are.

Either way. I hope everyone has plans to smoke some great foods this summer.   
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: gorillamotors on June 17, 2018, 11:41:22 am
The clamps I used are: two 3/4" with the rubber sleeves removed. These I positioned and centered over the ceramic end caps on the 2nd element to more or less locate it correctly. These two are a loose fit to allow the ceramic ends to expand with heat and not crack.

The 3rd clamp is 3/8" and it is a snug fit on the element itself to ensure it does not shift. The attach hardware and standoffs are all 3/16" .
You should put an second fusible link inline with the second element to ensure it's current is disrupted in the event of an overheat or fire.

What wires do you use at each end of the second element to the first element? Where do you get them? Also, do you remove some of the ceramic material that holds the heating element in place (not on the heating element itself) to make way for the wiring?

Jim
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on June 17, 2018, 08:13:34 pm
Excellent questions Gorillamotors.

To connect the second element to the terminals on the first element you must use high temperature wire of at least 14 gauge.

I salvaged wire from underneath the stove top of a used range. The wires supplying the stove tops elements with current is what you want. It is easily recognized by the fibrous sheathing it uses for insulation. Not the wiring that is found in the back of the range which has a plain plastic insulation. If you look carefully you can find lengths of the appropriate wire that already has ring terminals on one end. Just undo the existing terminal and cut yourself a piece about 4 inches long. Then find another the same and salvage that in the same way.

Once your second element is roughly located in the smoker you can then cut your salvaged wires to the correct length and put a second ring terminal on each salvaged wire and there you have your jumpers.

Yes in regards to notching the ceramic blocks. While they were apart I used a die grinder to grind a small notch in both halves of each block assy to allow the new wire to pass through from the original element to the second element. Each half was notched half moon and when the two blocks were then reassembled it formed a small hole for the jumper wire.

Find yourself an old stove or go to an appliance repair shop and they will fix you up with 12 inches of high temp 14 gauge wire to create your jumpers.

I can tell by your wording that you totally grasp the concept and should have no problem finishing your mod. One thing I did was mark the ceramic blocks with a jiffy marker before disassembly to simplify reassembly. Take a picture or two if you feel its needed. Good luck GM and don't hesitate to ask any more questions. Happy smoking!   
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on June 17, 2018, 08:15:48 pm
One note, don't overtighten the tiny nuts on the element terminals. Just snug … probably about 15 inch pounds only.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: scott24 on December 27, 2018, 08:57:53 am
Hi Orion.  I am late to the party but hopefully not too late.    :)   

I have only had my OBS for a year but purchased a PID and am looking to do the 2nd burner mod.   Couple of questions and some of them pretty obvious.   

1)  Where did you pick up the Aluminum Alloy standoffs?   Just local hardware store?  Online?  or Scrapped from another appliance?   
2)  On you eye connections and to the ears, did you simply just crimp the wires to the terminals or did you do any soldering?   I usually solder but thought about that being in the cooking area and not sure it would be food safe. 

I plan on running parallel wires to the back plug with its own inline thermal fuse for the second element.  I really love the standoff mod but have not found the hardware yet.   Also was only able to find 12 Gauge wire that had the fabric insulation but that should not be an issue. 

All of your posts, pictures, and comments have helped me plan this like you would not believe.  Also all of the dialog from everybody else has been beyond helpful!  Thank you all very much!

-Scott24
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 27, 2018, 09:53:54 am
Never too late to get questions answered.

Regarding the standoffs; any steel or aluminum tubing will do the trick provided the inside diameter of the tubing will allow the attach bolt to pass through. I happened to have some old aluminum spacers from years ago. My attach bolts were 3/16ths diameter x about 1 1/4" long and my spacers have an inside diameter of 3/16ths. Think old brake line or hydraulic tubing ect and cut to size.

Technically you don't even need the spacers. You could purchase or salvage 3 machine screws that are 3'16ths thread,  (course or fine) and about 1 1/2" long and threaded for their entire length. You can find these in any hardware store in little plastic 10 packs for about $3 Then using multiple nuts on each screw you can secure the clamps under the head of the screw and then secure the screw to the surface in the Bradley by double nutting it. Hopefully you follow what I'm trying to explain. Each screw would require 3 nuts; the clamp goes between the head of screw and one nut and the lower section of the screw is attached to the structure with 2 nuts thus eliminating the need for the spacer.

12 gauge wire will be fine provided it is the high temp type. Good to run it from the back panel like you plan to do. As long as you have decent crimpers that is all that is required in attaching the terminals to the wire. If the terminals have little plastic sleeves (usually red, blue or yellow for size designation) remove the plastic sleeve. If you choose to solder the connections after crimping I don't think it will cause any concerns regarding health. Its just a tiny drop of solder and the smoker will never get hot enough to cause it to off gas.

Sometimes you have to get creative and work with what you have. Keep in mind that the intention is simply to get the element located correctly , secured 1" or so above the structure and solid so it doesn't shift around. There is more than one way to skin a cat so work with what you can get.

Hope it all goes well for you as once you have the second element in you will no issues with slow to heat, slow to recover or an inability to get to proper temps for smoking/slow cooking. Good luck.     
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: scott24 on December 27, 2018, 01:18:30 pm
Thank you Very much for the Reply Orion!  I should have it done and tested by Saturday!   ;D Thanks again!
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on December 27, 2018, 07:11:13 pm
I just stuck my head into Home Depot and they carry a good selection of steel tubing that can be cut to your desired length.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: solcany on July 13, 2019, 06:04:27 pm
Again another too late...a question on how the plate was cleanly notched
I tried to notch the plate with a metal nibbler and was impossible to take any bite from the metal.  Could you share your technique on how you did the clean circular notch??  Many thanks
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: Orion on July 13, 2019, 07:46:27 pm
Never too late. It’s tough material ...stainless steel. I used a die grinder with a good fresh and sharp rotary file in the chuck. Use eye protection and watch out, it gets hot. Try to be careful when handling the burner and chute assy as the little rails that guide the puck are easily loosened if not careful.
If you’re lowering the burner plate at the same time as reshaping the chute I suggest only two washers or 1/8 inch. Some pucks disintegrate more than others when burnt and if the burner plate is too low the next puck has trouble pushing the odd one off and into the bowl.
The chute and burner mod was one of the best ones I did as I get much better complete combustion and less effort to clean the chute.
Title: Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
Post by: solcany on August 12, 2019, 06:29:51 pm
Thanks again for the great ideas and support. 2 mods work beautifully   I am also in Edmonton and would like to do the fan mod. Are you still happy with the  fan mod improvement? Not having any luck finding a scrap oven and parts from any sources here.  Can you please PM me with suggested places to try, here in Ed.?  Again thanks!!