BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Smoking Techniques => Hot Smoking and Barbecuing => Topic started by: heinz on August 14, 2006, 08:31:20 PM

Title: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 14, 2006, 08:31:20 PM
I'm going to smoke 4 3-4 lb pork butts for Wed night. While my last ones where not bad the outside was dry and had to be trimmed some. It was good, but not as good as I had done on my off-set in the past.

I'm chalking it up to a learning curve so I'm back into research mode.

I plan to smoke for 5-6 hrs starting Tue night with the dbs set to 230. Actual temp will probably be 210-ish in the box. I don't know if I should wrap it or perhaps keep it moist with an occasional apple-juice spritz.

Since they are small, I'm planning 2 per rack and bacon on top rack. Q. re bacon. Should it be dripping only through smoke time or replentish so that it self-bastes during cooking too?

I haven't decided on vent position yet. Did the last 1/2 open but since it aquired a dry crusty exterion I'm perhaps letting too much moisture out?

In the meantime they are rub'd and in a plastic bag in the fridge. Perhaps too early but that's where they are :-)

Any/all suggestions welcomed. Back to reading the Forum.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: car54 on August 15, 2006, 04:11:18 AM
If you do not want a bark try Old's T shirt idea. Put the pork butt in a wet T shirt. It will still absorb the smoke and will not bark over. Here is a link. Also the vent should be about 1/4 to1/3 open.

http://susan.rminor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53 (http://susan.rminor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53)



Brad
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 15, 2006, 04:43:16 AM
There was nothing wrong with the pulled pork that you made. Like Car54 stated, the outer crust is called the bark, with is very flavorful. I always slice the bark off before pulling the pork and chop it up. Then blend it in with the rest of the pulled pork. I generally chop the bark by hand, but if I have two butts, I use my food processor.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 15, 2006, 07:05:23 AM
My 'bark' was pretty rough, I.e. burnt . Does that imply I had the heat too high?
I'm planning to shoot for a box temp of 210. Too high/low?

The probe I use is attached about an inch below the meat on the second (from bottom) rack. I'm thinking of moving it to the side some or perhaps for this smoke in the middle between 2 butts. I.e. away from the meat some so that I get a truer 'box' reading.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 15, 2006, 08:13:09 AM
Hi Heinz, I'm a relative newbie on butts, so take this with a grain of rub.  I put the rubbed butts from the frig, directly into the smoker.  Smoke for just 2 hours, using only the generator(everything that's written on the subject suggests that meat will only adsorb smoke up to a surface temp of 140*), after 2 hours I turn on the cabinet elements and cook at 200* until internal temp is 185-190*. The cooking time for 2 6#s last week was 20 hrs. followed by 2hrs ftc. The butts were perfectly smoked for our tastes, the bark was slighlty crusty but moist and the meat juicy.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 15, 2006, 08:26:46 AM
Thanks TomG.

Hadn't thought about smoke generator only. Your method seems to contradict the "pre-heat" concept. Not saying it's wrong as whatever works works and I very much appreciate the exposure to different concepts/ideas. Before your post it wasn't even an option for me  :)

Gotta love this forum.

During the cooking time, do you spray, rotate, add/change water? Details, detail, details please. Newbie needs all the help he can get :)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: iceman on August 15, 2006, 08:36:12 AM
heinz;
Just a couple of things to think about.
If your rub contains salt it is going to draw moisture out of the roast especialy over night. I rub a couple of hours before smoking.
Keep the temp closer to 200 and the bark won't be so pronounced.
After the first 2 hours of smoke go ahead and spritz with juice / broth to keep from getting to much bark.
There is nothing wrong with the way TomG does his. It keeps the bark down to a thin crust that way. Ann likes hers that way. I like to do what Hab does. Just shows you that it's all a matter of personal taste.
What ever you come up with HAVE FUN DOING IT!
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 15, 2006, 08:45:27 AM
If your rub contains salt it is going to draw moisture out of the roast especialy over night. I rub a couple of hours before smoking.

I think this is where my brisket thinking got in the way. I have it in rub about 24hrs by the time I'll start tonight. It has some salt in it so next time I'm going to try the few hours before smoke.

Trying to decide on a spritz concoction to perhaps offset my 24hr rub'd time. Apple Juice and.....? All suggestions welcomed :)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 15, 2006, 08:50:07 AM
Honestly I've never understood either the bring "the meat to room temperature" or the "preheat" concepts.  The meat is left in the oven until its cooked, the 20-30 minute gain from pre heating seems  insignificant and a waste in a 20-24 hour cooking scheme.  I've never had to use more than the two center racks, so cab. temp differences hasn't been a factor.  After smoking I just turn on the oven with a pid and don't open the door until the wireless monitored meat probe indicates that the meat is cooked. I leave the vent open 1/4-1/3rd for both smoking and cooking. 
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 15, 2006, 08:55:22 AM
There is nothing wrong with the way TomG does his. It keeps the bark down to a thin crust that way. Ann likes hers that way.!

Actually Ice, I like and get a relatively thick bark, it's just not dry.

PS, Iceman, I'm out the door to pickup your sauce at the Post Office.  Can't wait to try it in a Bloody Mary with lunch today. ;D
Thanks again
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 15, 2006, 09:05:22 AM
The meat is left in the oven until its cooked

Curiosity is peaked so i'm going to start tonight with smoke only.

During the long cook, do you change water, leave water in or no water? I.e. can I leave it unattended for the 8-9 hour nap in the process or do i have to plan a water change? What should max time be between spritzing? Back to trying to adjust naptime(s) :)

The last few times my timing has always been way off, I.e. eating much later than originally planned. This time I'm shooting for being done early and if necessary re-heat. Out-of-town company coming with three little whirlwinds.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 15, 2006, 09:50:09 AM
Well i happen to do 2 8 pounders often.And here is my way.Mustard up the pork with any king of yellow mustard.Put the rub on and then wrap in plastic then place in fridge.The next day 1-2 hours before you want to start the smoke take them out of the fridge and leave them sit.Start the smoker at 6-7 pm that same night.SMOKE them for 4-5 hours with alder or what ever wood ya like.Spray apple juice after the 3rd hour of the smoke and there after when you like.Before ya go to bed change the water out.AT about 7-8 the frist one should be done at temps of 195 .Then ftc the 1st one and move the second one down a rack lower.SPRAY apple juice again.A few hours later it should be done at internal temps of 195 remove the second one then ftc that one also.These butts in the ftc should be plenty hot even to pull at 5-6 pm that evening this ftc keep heat a very long time so dont worry about cold food.This is the best and easiest food to do in this bs machine.Make you look like a bbq champ
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: robs on August 15, 2006, 09:54:29 AM
Hi Heinz, I'm a relative newbie on butts, so take this with a grain rub.  I put the rubbed butts from the frig, directly into the smoker.  Smoke for just 2 hours, using only the generator(everything that's written on the subject suggests that meat will only asborb smoke up to a surface temp of 140*), after 2 hours I turn on the cabinet elements and cook at 200* until internal temp is 185-190*. The cooking time for 2 6#s last week was 20 hrs. followed by 2hrs ftc. The butts were perfectly smoked for our tastes, the bark was slighlty crusty but moist and the meat juicy.

I love this idea. I have to be honest and say that when I do brisket, I've went up to 5 hours of smoke and it's not enough for my taste. Don't laugh, but last weekend after I sliced the brisket, I put it in a pan and threw it back in the smoker for 40 minutes to try to get more smoke flavor. It didn't work very well.

When you guys do 4 hours of smoke for brisket and pork is that enough for your tastes?

rob
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 15, 2006, 10:14:28 AM
Maybe dump a bunch of liquid smoke on the food.That might help ya out. ;D
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: jimguy on August 15, 2006, 10:36:00 AM
The joy of this forum is learing how each person goes about preparing and smoking their foods. I doubt there is any single "best" way to do anything in a smoker. As my dad used to say, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I have smoked about 10 pork butts for pulled pork and done most in a different way. My favorite way has become taking the meat from the fridge, adding the rub, then let it sit on the counter covered lightly with foil while the smoker is preheating. Given an hour or so, the meat has warmed some and the rub absorbed enough moisture to stick. I then smoke for 4 to 5 hours at 200 to 225. At that point I take it out, wrap it in foil, then return it to the smoker with the temp probe in it where I continue cooking until the meat reaches around 195. FTC or just leave in the turned off smoker for an hour or so then pull. The meat is very tender and juicy, the bark light and moist so that it pulls apart with the rest.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: robs on August 15, 2006, 11:17:23 AM
Maybe dump a bunch of liquid smoke on the food.That might help ya out. ;D

umm. Thanks for that. I'm being serious i guess.

When I ate at Famous Dave's last week (I love their brisket) I asked them about their smoking process. He said that they receive the brisket presliced from "headquarters". Dave wants it cut a certain way (against the grain) so I guess this is closely monitored. When they get it, it's already sliced so they just heat it up in the smoker using hickory. So it's double smoked.

I don't think my question was so out of line. I have just noticed that brisket and pork shoulder has more of a smoke flavor at Famous Dave's and other places and was wondering if 4 or 5 hours of smoke in the BS seems to be to your liking.

Having said that, from what I understand, the meat doesn't take on smoke after 4 or 5 hours (at the surface). Does this mean that during the 4 hours in the BS that it's only putting out 1/2 the smoke as an Oklahoma Joe or other smoker? This seems like the most logical explanation to me. If the pucks were twice the size, I bet that a 3 hour smoke with the large puck would produce a stronger flavor than a 6 hour smoke with the current size pucks.

Having said that...it leads me back to my origonal question. Does smoke for 4 or 5 hours in BS on a brisket or pork butt produce enough of a smoke taste for you? For me the answer is no. I need more smoke.

I'm just trying to get ideas from others. So far, I know that I can use liquid smoke.

Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 15, 2006, 11:32:48 AM
I think the liquid smoke comment was meant as a friendly jab, at least that's the way I took it :)

I'm still trying to figure out the amount of smoke in the BS compared to my old methof of using an off-set. My biggest 'adjustment' is the lack of the smoke ring to see if/how successfull a smoke was. Haven't ventured an experiment using curing salt to add nitrate.

I do believe the magic number is 140-ish degrees. After that no more smoke is absorbed. Perhaps re-heating in the smoker (as per Famous Dave's) leaves a residual smoke for taste. Just guessing though. Food for thought... pun intended :)
 
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 15, 2006, 11:37:56 AM
Yes it was i guess.I have a friend who has a bs and he says his food is always over smoked.Its all about the persons taste buds in this smoking deal.DIDNT mean anything about the liquid smoke i just thought that might help out  ;).
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: robs on August 15, 2006, 11:39:57 AM
I think the liquid smoke comment was meant as a friendly jab, at least that's the way I took it :)

I'm still trying to figure out the amount of smoke in the BS compared to my old methof of using an off-set. My biggest 'adjustment' is the lack of the smoke ring to see if/how successfull a smoke was. Haven't ventured an experiment using curing salt to add nitrate.

I do believe the magic number is 140-ish degrees. After that no more smoke is absorbed. Perhaps re-heating in the smoker (as per Famous Dave's) leaves a residual smoke for taste. Just guessing though. Food for thought... pun intended :)
 
Yeah, I think you are right about the friendly jab. I'm going to play around with the temps for the first 4-5 hours and start keeping a (better) log.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: robs on August 15, 2006, 11:41:59 AM
Yes it was i guess.I have a friend who has a bs and he says his food is always over smoked.Its all about the persons taste buds in this smoking deal.DIDNT mean anything about the liquid smoke i just thought that might help out  ;).

Ok, thanks for the help.

The only food that I have over smoked in the bs is jerky. I'll keep playing around.

rob
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: acords on August 15, 2006, 12:50:46 PM
Rob

Just a thought, what type of wood are you using?  Some woods will leave a stronger flavor.  Mesquite for one, I also feel that oak is a bit stronger too.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: robs on August 15, 2006, 01:23:28 PM
Rob

Just a thought, what type of wood are you using?  Some woods will leave a stronger flavor.  Mesquite for one, I also feel that oak is a bit stronger too.

I only use hickory.  Locally, I can only find hickory, mesquite, apple, and special blend. I've been too lazy to order oak, but I think it's time to try it.

thanks for the idea.
rob
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 15, 2006, 02:47:35 PM
Maybe dump a bunch of liquid smoke on the food.That might help ya out. ;D

umm. Thanks for that. I'm being serious i guess.

When I ate at Famous Dave's last week (I love their brisket) I asked them about their smoking process. He said that they receive the brisket presliced from "headquarters". Dave wants it cut a certain way (against the grain) so I guess this is closely monitored. When they get it, it's already sliced so they just heat it up in the smoker using hickory. So it's double smoked.

I don't think my question was so out of line. I have just noticed that brisket and pork shoulder has more of a smoke flavor at Famous Dave's and other places and was wondering if 4 or 5 hours of smoke in the BS seems to be to you







I had never heard of double smoke.Interesting.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 15, 2006, 03:34:28 PM
Rob

Just a thought, what type of wood are you using?  Some woods will leave a stronger flavor.  Mesquite for one, I also feel that oak is a bit stronger too.

Now there may be a worthy topic for "THE MYTHBUSTERS". ::)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: winemakers on August 15, 2006, 06:36:35 PM
Regarding the bring it to room temp first.  My experience is colored with sausage so......  the room temp cuts down on the condensation formed during the first bit of heating.  loooong slow smokes may not matter, but I have had sausage that looks like it has leprosy more than 1'nce because I rushed the process.  Given the low heat recovery of the BS, I choose to put my butt on the counter ::) for a time.

mld
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: asa on August 15, 2006, 07:53:47 PM
My 'bark' was pretty rough, I.e. burnt . Does that imply I had the heat too high?
I'm planning to shoot for a box temp of 210. Too high/low?

heinz -
I doubt that your outside "bark" was actually burned at that temperature, although I certainly believe it got dark brown or even black in some places. Someone else on this forum has a signature line that says something like "when it's brown it's cooking, when it's black it's done." (apologies to whoever uses that - I like it but didn't have time to look it up)  Smoke + rub on meat = a black surface, or at least a very dark one. That's what I aim for when I'm smoking butts. As others have suggested, that is stuff that you can slice off and chop up very fine, then mix in with the rest of the meat for that great smoked flavor. So don't rule out going for that surface color and using it to your advantage.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 15, 2006, 08:32:53 PM
Thank you all.

I'm 2 1/2 hours into smoking with smoke generator only. Box temp is 140. Vent is 1/4 open.

I plan to leave it go another 4-some hours before turning on heat. I'll probably empty the used up pucks and change water at 4 hours.

For heat I'm debating 210/220 preset on the DBS. At that time I'll add some bacon on the top rack. Any better suggestions re the pre-set? There'll be about a 10 degree swing so the pre-set is actually a max temp as I can't recall having it overshoot.

Still debating on when/how often to spray and what with. At the moment I'm thinking Apple juice cut with water. Open to suggestions :)

As the temp will still be low when I turn the heat on I'm planning to leave smoke on too for a couple of hours or so.

And if it all flops there is always KFC :)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 16, 2006, 05:56:13 AM
Temperature of the meat when you begin to cook does have an effect on both evenness of cooking and cooking times. The colder the meat the more the outer meat will brown, crust, and "over" cook before the center is done. The cooking time is also increased. This is especially true for thicker cuts of meat. TomG is in a way bringing the meat up to "room" temperature at the beginning of his cook time, by placing it in the smoker with just the generator on. I'm not sure what the cabinet temperature would be, but myself I would be concerned if it was below 140°F during a four hour smoke for meat that is not cured.

It's a matter of preference how you want the texture of the outer meat to turn out. Some use the cold temperature of meat as an advantage. For thinner cuts of meats such as steaks, chops, fish etc.; starting with cold meat before placing it on the grill or pan gives one a nice crust and the center does not over cook.

From my experience, preheating, especially going over the cooking temperature by 25°F-50°F before loading, brings you up to your cooking temperature faster. For slow cooking large cuts of meat I prefer consistency in the cooking temperature throughout the smoke. I find it saves more time then 30 minutes. I have noticed by preheating my smoker and extra 25°F above the cooking temperature my BS comes up to temperature in half the time it would if I preheated it to the actual cooking temperature.

But again, it's one's personal preference in how you want to smoke. So if one finds a way to get the results one wants, then keep doing it. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 16, 2006, 06:43:07 AM
If times not a biggie.And time is not a biggie for me .I do room temp the meats but i dont preheat the bs.Both the machines i have get temps up pretty fast.So half hour hour is no biggie on getting the stuff done.Imo. ;D
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 16, 2006, 08:07:10 AM
I'm not sure what the cabinet temperature would be, but myself I would be concerned if it was below 140°F during a four hour smoke for meat that is not cured.

Interesting thought Hab,. I only smoke for 2-2 1/2 before kicking the oven into overdrive and haven't really noticed my smoking temps.  I do know that with my secondary heater it only takes 20-30 mins to get the oven containing 10 #s of meat up to 200*. Hopefully exposure to the dreaded 40-140* killer zone is minimal. Is meat susceptible to the 40-140 nasties while it's being smoked?
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 16, 2006, 08:26:11 AM
Is meat susceptible to the 40-140 nasties while it's being smoked?

Just found the expert's answer to that very question ;D ;D

I just read the section of Smoked Meats in Harold McGee’s “On Food and Cooking; The Science and Lore of the Kitchen.” He basically states that smoking preserves the surface of the meat, and kills or inhibits the growth of microbes (bacteria).  During cold smoking, smoke vapors are deposited on the surface of meat, as much as seven times faster then when you are hot smoking.

In my opinion, if you handle the meat properly prior to smoking, I would think you could cold smoke without curing first, and not have to worry about bacteria. As Big Red states it will depend on how long you cold smoke. Myself, I would limit it to four hours. I generally don’t apply smoke beyond four hours anyway.

Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 16, 2006, 08:44:51 AM
Phew :)
Thanks for the extra info Tom and Habanero Smoker.

I'm close to the 9 hour mark after turning heat on and my internal temps are 145 for the lower and 139 for the higher rack. Think I may be cutting it too close so have increased temp preset to 220 from 210. Doing AJ every 2-3 hours and have some bacon dripping from the top rack (turned upside down to make room for the butt).

I have about 8 hours to pull-time. May not have time for FTC. If not it'll have to do with a little rest period.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 16, 2006, 09:50:55 AM
The fat side of the butt should always stay on top.So the fat keeps the butt wet.No bacon ever needed the fat will do the job just fine with no problems.Plus the apple juice breaks down the fat and melts it nicely when applyed. ;).Never have the fat side down.The fat needs to melt over the butt.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 16, 2006, 10:50:38 AM
Unfortunately mine don't have much fat. Haven't been able to get a good/whole shoulder yet. Been making do with the de-boned wrapped (with string) variety.

I did turn them for a while to get some AJ all over.

If the smell is any indication we may have a good smoke yet.

It's driving me nuts, I have the pork going in the gazebo/smoker and finishing a previously smoked/frozen brisket in the oven right next to my home office.

I'm planning to pull one butt at about 175-180 and FTC it. That one will be for slicing. If I can survive that long.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 16, 2006, 10:53:51 AM
Where do u live. If you have a sams club they have boston butt 1.34 per lbs.Very nice too ya get two in a cryo vac pack. ive done them and there really good and nice fatty layer on top to boot.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 16, 2006, 10:59:15 AM
Langley, BC (close to Vancouver).

No Sam's but I'll check Costco again next time there. Their ribs were good.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 16, 2006, 11:31:47 AM
If they dont have it in the show case ask one of the monkeys in the back they should be able to help ya out. ;D
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: mattmilw on August 16, 2006, 12:36:48 PM
I am following this thread with great interest. I too am finding I am not getting the level of smoked flavoring that I'm looking for. The overall  flavor and texture of the meat is wonderful, but I would like a more pronounced smoke flavor. I've only done a few butts and a brisket in my BS, so I haven't had too much chance to try different techniques.  I've also not tried oak or mesquite yet, mostly just hickory.

What a great problem to have.....making great tasting BBQ that I need to keep experimenting with to make better.  It's a fun process.

Thanks,
Matt
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 16, 2006, 12:46:45 PM
Smoke is an antimicrobial, as I have posted in the past. But it displays different antimicrobial  properties against different microorganisms. My concern would be the length of time the meat is in an oxygen poor environment. I have never seen any studies on the effects of smoke on the properties of botulism, so I am not certain how smoke effects that microorganism. Maybe Manxman can shed further light on this.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 16, 2006, 05:08:57 PM
Here’s what the CDC has to say about botulism.  It looks as if smoked meats are not a likely source of infection.



What kind of germ is Clostridium botulinum?

Clostridium botulinum is the name of a group of bacteria commonly found in soil. These rod-shaped organisms grow best in low oxygen conditions. The bacteria form spores which allow them to survive in a dormant state until exposed to conditions that can support their growth. There are seven types of botulism toxin designated by the letters A through G; only types A, B, E and F cause illness in humans.

How common is botulism?

In the United States an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported each year. Of these, approximately 25% are foodborne, 72% are infant botulism, and the rest are wound botulism. Outbreaks of foodborne botulism involving two or more persons occur most years and usually caused by eating contaminated home-canned foods. The number of cases of foodborne and infant botulism has changed little in recent years, but wound botulism has increased because of the use of black-tar heroin, especially in California.

How can botulism be prevented?

Botulism can be prevented. Foodborne botulism has often been from home-canned foods with low acid content, such as asparagus, green beans, beets and corn. However, outbreaks of botulism from more unusual sources such as chopped garlic in oil, chile peppers, tomatoes, improperly handled baked potatoes wrapped in aluminum foil, and home-canned or fermented fish. Persons who do home canning should follow strict hygienic procedures to reduce contamination of foods. Oils infused with garlic or herbs should be refrigerated. Potatoes which have been baked while wrapped in aluminum foil should be kept hot until served or refrigerated. Because the botulism toxin is destroyed by high temperatures, persons who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to ensure safety. Instructions on safe home canning can be obtained from county extension services or from the US Department of Agriculture. Because honey can contain spores of Clostridium botulinum and this has been a source of infection for infants, children less than 12 months old should not be fed honey. Honey is safe for persons 1 year of age and older. Wound botulism can be prevented by promptly seeking medical care for infected wounds and by not using injectable street drugs.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 16, 2006, 06:09:04 PM
I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I know about botulism, and did not mean to give the impression that smoked meat is a source. But having said that, I took a course in sausage making, and the chief was adamant that smoking uncured sausage you risk botulism contamination. What I am saying if spores get on the meat or in the smoker, what you are doing is creating the optimum environment in the cabinet for that bacteria to grow, low oxygen levels and temperatures that will be in the danger zone for too long. Though smoke contains antimicrobial elements, the effects are different for each bacteria. Still I have not seen an article that goes into the antimicrobial properties smoke has on botulism as to whether smoke will inhibit the bacteria to grow, so this would still be my concern.

My concerns my be not viable. Hopefully Manxman will see this thread and he will add to the discussion.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 16, 2006, 07:19:47 PM
I took a course in sausage making, and the chief was adamant that smoking uncured sausage you risk botulism contamination.

Hab, my point is that we all bring to the table concepts which may or may not be valid and someone new to the Forum looking for information from experienced members are receiving, taking away and perpetuating  misconceptions that have no rational legitimacy. Example: I would give much more credence to your Harold McGee reference than I would to what a chief in a sausage making course had to say about botulism when according to the CDC there only 25 cases of food born botulism reported in the US/yr and apparently none of them due to homemade sausages. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 17, 2006, 03:15:46 AM
I was in a hurry so I made a mistake it's not chief, but chef (a problem with spell checkers). It was a course I took for the Culinary Institute of America, from a chef that had over 30 years experience of sausage making. I would consider him a very good source.

Before making statements that I am perpetuating misconceptions, because you read one article; do a simple search on smoking suasage. I could continue but I end this now.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 17, 2006, 06:20:03 AM
Thank you both tom and habs.Points well taken on both sides can we move on.Very informative and helpful.Thank you both again.have a great day .AND HAPPY SMOKING  ;D
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 17, 2006, 07:42:19 AM
And on a lighter note.... my smoke survived but I had to make some adjustments during the last few hours.

I took my 2 slicers out at 175 degrees and cranked up the heat to 250 for the next few hours but still didn't make it past 185. I FTC'd one of the slicers and one of the pullers while we stuffed ourselves.

After the company left I pulled the one I took out at 185 with ease. I pulled the slicer too but it was kinda in-between, not firm enough to be a slicer anymore and a little more trouble pulling.

All in all it was good.
Lessons learned: 1) start earlier, 2) start even earlier. 3) Use a temp pre-set of 220 instead of 210. Not sure if I'll cold-smoke again the next time.

Left-overs vacuum sealed and in the freezer. Going to chop up some of the bark for lunch today.

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 17, 2006, 08:24:08 AM
Here is my weeekend pulled pork deal  ;D

 

2@7-8 lbs. Boston Butt – bone-in

1 Large Bottle Yellow Mustard

2 Bottles of Grill Mates Pork Rub

1 Bottle of Apple Juice and Spray Bottle

1 Box of Tin Foil

1 Box of Cling Wrap

Internal Temperature Gage

 



 

Thursday

 

1.                 Slather yellow mustard all over Pork Butt

2.                 Coat Butt with Pork rub

3.                 Wrap in Cling Wrap plastic

4.                 Put in fridge over night

 

Friday at around 4:00p.m.

 

1.     Remove butt from fridge and remove wrap; coat butt with more Pork Rub

 

2.     Let butt sit 1-2 hours at room temperature

 

3.     Start the smoker with 4-5 hours of whatever smoke you will use

 

4.     Place butt on middle shelf

 

5.     Make sure the slider is all the way to the right on high with top vent open all of the way.  Shut the door and wait until the butt has been smoked for 3 hours

 

6.     Open the door and check the water in the bowl; fill bowl with water if needed.

 

7.     When the butt has been smoked for 3 hours, spray apple juice all over the butt. 

 

8.     when smoke is done at the 4-5 hour mark, put new water in the bowl and then spray the apple juice on the butt again.

 

9.     Shut door and GO TO BED!!

 

10. At around 7-8 a.m., check the temperature.  If it is not 195 degrees, do not remove.  Spray some more apple juice on the butt and wait until it reaches 195 degrees

 

11. When the temp reaches 195 degrees, remove the butt from the smoker and spray again with apple juice.  Then wrap it in foil and place a dishtowel or regular towel around it and place in a cooler or microwave.

 

12. Wait at least two hours to take the butt out of the foil and remove the fat.

 

13. READY TO EAT!!   Hope this helps out its a sure deal ive done about 50 or so this way and no problem a sure bet.

 

       
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 17, 2006, 08:35:49 AM
THANK YOU Icerat4.

Now we just have to find an equivilant setting of the Slider for the Digital.
Gonna be trying your complete 'recipe' next time.

Heinz
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: Habanero Smoker on August 17, 2006, 12:40:15 PM
Glad everything worked out. Isn't it nice when members stick to the topics. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: icerat4 on August 18, 2006, 10:54:13 AM
Yes habs it is. ;)
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: TomG on August 18, 2006, 01:29:09 PM
OoooKay, sticking to the topic let me offer a simple seven-puck technique for pork butt.  Simple as in no preheating, no bringing the meat to room temp, no smoking for 5-9 hours, no rotating racks, no bacon, no changing water bowls, no opening oven and spraying, etc., etc., etc.

1-Rub your favorite butt with your favorite rub.
2-Refrigerate for 12-24 hours.
3-When ready to start cooking, with water bowl full and in its usual position, and the vent 1/3rd open, turn on generator and load it with seven Bisquettes(any flavor)and 2 metal pucks
4-Place butt or butts on one of the middle racks and insert the probe of a remote thermometer into the meat.
5-Close the door and leave it closed until finished cooking and ready to debutt.
6-Cold(actually warm) smoke using only the generator’s heat pad for 2 hours.
7-After 2 hours turn on the oven and cook at 205* until the meats internal temp. reaches 190*. In my relatively limited experience that will take about 2 1/2-3 hours per pound, so plan accordingly.  If the meat cooks sooner than expected it can be left in the FTC for at least 6 hours and still be hot enough to serve.
8-Remove from oven, spray with 50-50 mixture of apple juice and apple cider.
9-Place in FTC from1-6 hours depending on serving schedule.
10-Pull, slice, eat, enjoy.

If you try it, please let me know the results, good, bad or ugly.

Peace

PS and BTW: If you don't need the generator to maintain a temp. of 205* turn the damn thing off and save it for smoking.  It will be a hell of a lot easier and less expensive to replace the oven heating element.
Title: Re: Trying Pork again.
Post by: heinz on August 25, 2006, 02:40:52 PM
I'm about to try again. Got a whole butt, bone in, today. About 8 lbs. Going smoke/cook it without an eating schedule/deadline. No company coming :)

Question is where/how to best monitor the temp. On one of my smokes I had the temp probe under the meat and I think it was too close to give an accurate reading.

I'm contemplating to put this butt on the second rack my temp probe underneath first (bottom) rack in the center.
Doing that can I / should I be expecting to see 205 degrees or will it never get there until smoke/cook is close to done.

I'm still 'learning' about the DBS so I don't want to rely on the preset or the DBS's temp but rather play/experiment so that I can find out what the pre-set and dbs temp probe should be to get the desired results, I.e. the 205.

TIA - Heinz