BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Smoking Techniques => Hot Smoking and Barbecuing => Topic started by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 10:37:32 AM

Title: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 10:37:32 AM
I was at the grocery store this morning and went in to see the butcher, he informed be he had some brisket brought in for someone. I asked if I could get a section cut off because it looked to be about 24" long or so. Any how he cut me off a fairly large size about 8-10" wide.. cost seemed really reasonable with a total of 12$ ..Is there better cuts than others on brisket? Not sure what Ive got, ill post a pic when I get home .( Mabye someone can identify)
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: TedEbear on March 29, 2017, 10:54:10 AM
How many lbs was it?  Around here briskets are $7.29/lb, which is mainly why I do not buy them.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
3.2 lbs TedEbear
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 11:50:22 AM
photobuc(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170329_155511_zpsglt8plai.jpg) (http://s1070.ket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170329_155511_zpsglt8plai.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 29, 2017, 01:27:36 PM
A whole brisket, often referred to a packer has two distinct muscles; the point, and the flat. Most like to cook the whole brisket, but if that is unavailable, most stores will have the flat for sale. If you can't or don't want a whole brisket, the flat is preferred. The point has a lot of marbling, and many slice the point off after a whole brisket has been smoked and cooked, then make burnt ends out of it.

If your butcher just sliced a whole brisket without removing the point from the flat, you probably got some each of the point and flat. From the picture your posted, where you see that fat vein; that is where the point is separated from the flat. It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like he gave you the point end.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 03:58:18 PM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 29, 2017, 01:27:36 PM
A whole brisket, often referred to a packer has two distinct muscles; the point, and the flat. Most like to cook the whole brisket, but if that is unavailable, most stores will have the flat for sale. If you can't or don't want a whole brisket, the flat is preferred. The point has a lot of marbling, and many slice the point off after a whole brisket has been smoked and cooked, then make burnt ends out of it.

If your butcher just sliced a whole brisket without removing the point from the flat, you probably got some each of the point and flat. From the picture your posted, where you see that fat vein; that is where the point is separated from the flat. It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like he gave you the point end.
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170329_195542_zpsosjru7q6.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170329_195542_zpsosjru7q6.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 04:01:23 PM
Took it out of the package so you can get a better look Habs, not quite sure how I'm going to cook/smoke this yet but I would like to have it for a meal. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Ka Honu on March 29, 2017, 05:07:42 PM
Sure looks like he cut a slab from the point end and gave you some of each. Prep, season, and smoke as you would a whole packer (but it should only take you somewhere between 3 and 5 hours). Again, if you haven't already, read the brisket posts from Pachanga and WTS on the archived recipe board before proceeding.

To serve you can slice the whole thing (pencil thick) across the grain of the flat or separate and slice the parts individually.

At CAD 8.80/kg you paid about US$4 per pound - not too bad a price for what you got, especially as well as he trimmed it.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 05:39:15 PM
Actually paid about $4.00 canadian funds which = $3.00 U.S per lb, think I will go buy a few more lbs to have on hand while the price is good..
Thanks for the Advice Guys!
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 05:49:25 PM
Quote from: Ka Honu on March 29, 2017, 05:07:42 PM
Sure looks like he cut a slab from the point end and gave you some of each. Prep, season, and smoke as you would a whole packer (but it should only take you somewhere between 3 and 5 hours). Again, if you haven't already, read the brisket posts from Pachanga and WTS on the archived recipe board before proceeding.

To serve you can slice the whole thing (pencil thick) across the grain of the flat or separate and slice the parts individually.

At CAD 8.80/kg you paid about US$4 per pound - not too bad a price for what you got, especially as well as he trimmed it.

Ka Honu how do you access the archived recipes? I looked but no luck finding it.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Ka Honu on March 30, 2017, 12:04:00 AM
Archived recipes (beef) here (https://web.archive.org/web/20150915131744/http://www.susanminor.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?146-Beef).
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 30, 2017, 01:51:23 AM
It is difficult to tell, but if you look at that fat vein, that vein separates the two muscles. Looking at the marbling it appears that the cut below the fat vein is the point, and what's above it is part of the flat. It is pretty well trimmed; to the point too much fat has been trimmed off. Which ever recipe you choose, when the brisket reaches an internal temperature of about 160°F, I would put it in a foil pan, add about 1/2" of low sodium beef stock, cover with foil, and continue to cook until you reach the desired doness. Or you may run the risk of ending with a very dry brisket. Most competition cooks now remove almost all the fat, and they will foil the brisket at some stage, and their briskets generally will come out moist.

An alternative that some people use is to place bacon on a rack above the brisket, so the fat from the bacon drips down. That will alter the taste of the brisket, and doesn't work as well as foiling. So if you want to see what brisket tastes like, the foil pan is the best way to go at this point.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 30, 2017, 03:02:41 AM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 30, 2017, 01:51:23 AM
It is difficult to tell, but if you look at that fat vein, that vein separates the two muscles. Looking at the marbling it appears that the cut below the fat vein is the point, and what's above it is part of the flat. It is pretty well trimmed; to the point too much fat has been trimmed off. Which ever recipe you choose, when the brisket reaches an internal temperature of about 160°F, I would put it in a foil pan, add about 1/2" of low sodium beef stock, cover with foil, and continue to cook until you reach the desired doness. Or you may run the risk of ending with a very dry brisket. Most competition cooks now remove almost all the fat, and they will foil the brisket at some stage, and their briskets generally will come out moist.

An alternative that some people use is to place bacon on a rack above the brisket, so the fat from the bacon drips down. That will alter the taste of the brisket, and doesn't work as well as foiling. So if you want to see what brisket tastes like, the foil pan is the best way to go at this point.
Couple of questions.. once it reaches 160f, place it into a foil pan with the beef stock and cover the pan with foil? Or the brisket with foil and place in the pan? Silly question I know but just want to be clear.
Also well done beef is around the 170f mark and I noticed guys are bringing the int temp up to 190f, is there a reason for that? One would assume that would run the risk of drying out.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: TedEbear on March 30, 2017, 04:49:18 AM
Quote from: Johnny on March 29, 2017, 05:49:25 PM
Ka Honu how do you access the archived recipes? I looked but no luck finding it.

Here's a link to the entire recipe site:  Our Time Tested and Proven Recipes (https://web.archive.org/web/20141231073502/http://www.susanminor.org/forums/)

Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 30, 2017, 07:08:10 AM
Had to share my great deal with you guys.. I went back to the butcher this morning to ask for more brisket and he informed me the cost had went up from $8.80 per KG to over $14 per KG over night, turns out the grocery store was paying more for the brisket than they were selling it for. He said to me he would check to see if the price change had been downloaded yet and guess what! it didn't  :) I got the entire packer for a cost of $54 Canadian! its somewhere around 16- 18lbs!

Now I need advice how to cut this,, it has been trimmed already.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Salmonsmoker on March 30, 2017, 07:35:15 AM
Johnny, for more info on smoking a brisket, Aaron Franklin has several YouTube videos. He is the BBQ guru of Austin TX and does central TX style BBQ. The videos are fairly short and fun to watch. I have his book "FRANKLIN BARBEQUE- A Meat Smoking Manifesto" that has a lot of good info on process, recipes, etc. Another meat arrow for your smoker quiver.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on March 30, 2017, 07:56:33 AM
Awesome! Ill check out those videos and look into that book as well. I have about 20 lbs of brisket to experiment with now so I'm a happy guy!
Thanks for the info,
Johnny.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Habanero Smoker on March 30, 2017, 01:08:24 PM
Brisket is a tough cut of meat, with tough connective tissue. In order to make this cut tender, you need to slow cook it for hours for the connective tissue to break down, until it reaches tenderness. That means taking the brisket to anywhere from 185°F to 205°F. The meat does become dry, but the collagen from the connective tissue converts to gelatin, and that gelatin coats the meat fibers, that is what provides the moisture.

It is easier to place the brisket in a pan, and cover the pan with foil. You can wrap the brisket in foil, but I found that using a pan works better.

The cut you got you should not cut it until it is cooked. You don't want to trim a brisket that much, unless you are into competition barbecue, and you are experience in cooking brisket fully trimmed.  When it is done slice it against the grain.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 05, 2017, 04:25:51 PM
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170405_200706_zpswfvs07ig.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170405_200706_zpswfvs07ig.jpg.html)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170405_201845_zpsi6tco0ya.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170405_201845_zpsi6tco0ya.jpg.html)
So I've let this slice of brisket rest in the fridge for over a week now, applied the rub tonight and sealed it up. Will over night be long enough with the rub applied or would you experienced  guys leave this for longer? I'd like this to turn out as good as possible.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Ka Honu on April 06, 2017, 12:23:44 AM
Overnight is fine.

Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 30, 2017, 01:51:23 AM
An alternative that some people use is to place bacon on a rack above the brisket, so the fat from the bacon drips down. That will alter the taste of the brisket, and doesn't work as well as foiling. So if you want to see what brisket tastes like, the foil pan is the best way to go at this point.
Another alternative is to use the fat you trim off the brisket instead of bacon. It doesn't affect the flavor like bacon would.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 06, 2017, 03:08:09 AM
Ka Honu,
The packer came in trimmed, (guessing thats called a market ??? ) anyhow Habs mentioned boating this in beef broth instead of using bacon,  thats my plan.. although I do have lots of beef fat in the freezer I use for my sausage. Maybe I can do both?
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 06, 2017, 03:13:28 PM
End result, not entirely sure if this is how it's supposed to be or not but we enjoyed it none the less!
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170406_173014_zpsfuiffoum.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170406_173014_zpsfuiffoum.jpg.html)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170406_173021_zpssgahe7jf.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170406_173021_zpssgahe7jf.jpg.html)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170406_173614_zpskmiyqins.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170406_173614_zpskmiyqins.jpg.html)
(http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/johnnyandsheri/20170406_173626_zps70nt6yub.jpg) (http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/johnnyandsheri/media/20170406_173626_zps70nt6yub.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Ka Honu on April 06, 2017, 11:14:47 PM
If you enjoyed it then it's EXACTLY how it's supposed to be.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Habanero Smoker on April 07, 2017, 01:48:31 AM
It looks good. How was the texture (tenderness)?

What was the final internal temperature when you took it out of the Bradley?
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 07, 2017, 02:52:07 AM
Well the thin side was much better than the thicker, I'm guessing that was the piont (thin pc.)
I guess i was expecting a fall apart texture, almost melt in your mouth meat.. I cant really compare it to anything because its different from any cut of meat I had. The thinner side was really tender, so much you could cut it with a fork, I was happy about that. The side with the fat going through it was not so tender (guessing thats the section best used to make pastrami)
None the less the flavour was awesome!
Habs the temp was 195 F when i pulled it and foiled it for 1.5 hours ( I would have Foiled it for longer but we ate it for supper)
As you suggested, when it reached 160 I placed it in a foil tray with low sodium beef broth and wrapped tin foil over it.  I also had beef fat on the grate above it instead of bacon.
Not sure if I did everything as I should have but I do have another one to try in the future.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: TedEbear on April 07, 2017, 04:33:42 AM
What chamber temp did you cook it at?  For things like pork butts I've noticed that they are more tender when I cook them at 210*F instead of a higher temp like 225*F or higher.  I think I'm going to go with a chamber temp of 210*F for my brisket next week and shoot for an IT of 195-200.

Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 07, 2017, 08:15:58 AM
220 F was what I cooked it on, pulled at 195
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Habanero Smoker on April 07, 2017, 01:38:17 PM
Overall you did a good job for the first time cooking that cut.

From looking at your earlier pictures, the way the butcher cut your brisket, the thin part was what was left of the flat. It looks like you didn't separate the two muscles before you slicing it. The thicker part of the piece of brisket you have is the point. I can tell this by the marbling and the shape. Where the flat and the point connect, those two pieces the grain goes in different directions. In your first picture of slices, you were cutting across the grain, which makes a more tender slice. In your second picture when you came to the thicker part where both muscles meet, I can see when sliced part of the slice is with the grain, and part is against the grain. Slicing with the grain make makes it tougher to chew. Also I like the keep my slices less than 1/4" thick, unless I overcook it and I have to slice it thicker for it to keep from falling apart.

You should go by temperature, and tenderness; because different cuts may cook differently. When a fork is able to be inserted easily, your brisket is done. Many like to use the temperature probe, and use that to test tenderness. When you are able to slide the probe in and out easily, that is another sign that it is done. For myself, I don't like fall apart brisket, I like a little "give" to it.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 07, 2017, 02:18:45 PM
The more and more you talk about this makes more sense to me, I can visualize what you are telling me and this is valuable information, thank you for your knowledge!! I think im going to concentrate on learning how to cut meats because goes to show you can't always count on your butcher. I have a complete packer cut into 3 equal sections ( which i now have vacuum sealed and frozen) and wishing I have left this as a whole. Perhaps it will be fine, who knows!
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Habanero Smoker on April 08, 2017, 02:50:24 AM
It's best to either keep the brisket whole, or separate it where the two muscles join - point from the flat. I'm sure your other briskets will turn out fine, even better. This one looks good and turned out good. You just need to tweak a few things. It is difficult to get the brisket "perfect". The three sections you now have cut; I would to cook them in the same manner - just make a few adjustments.
Title: Re: Fresh cut Brisket
Post by: Johnny on April 08, 2017, 05:17:55 AM
Great advice!! Thanks again Habs 😀