What can I say.... I just always have to play! ::)
And.... Iceman is my hero! 8)
I'm in the process of modifying a used Lockwood Proofer/Warmer Cabinet into a smoker. My main purpose for this is to do larger batches of sausage, although it may get used for larger batches of anything.
I haven't got very far yet, more in the planning stages than anything. I picked up this Proofer from a guy who was no longer using it. It's been sitting outside for a while so it has lots of oxidization on it, but it cleans up fine using steel wool and a mixture of vinegar and water. I should have taken a photo of it before I got started ripping it apart but I didn't. So far I have removed all the heating elements out of the bottom of it and removed the blower which was seized. The unit was too tall for where I want to locate it so I removed the top portion (about 5 or 6 inches) which housed the controls. It was a simple case of drilling out the rivets. Later, I will shorten this section and reinstall it for the top. I have also removed the casters that were under it because I will permanently mount this in my garage as well. When I removed the top controls I wasn't very impressed with the insulation in it. It was insulated with fibreglass insulation and very little of it. So, I have now removed the back, sides, bottom and door as well and will be re-insulating with mineral wool insulation which has a much higher temperature rating.
So far so good.... Now the plan....
Heating & Air Circulation
I thought I would tackle these together. My thought is to use a high temp blower, draw the air off the bottom of the smoker and return the air blowing it across two 725 watt finned strip heaters. The blower would run full time and the elements would be controlled by a PID. The CFM of the blower is 76 and the maximum air intake temperature is 450 degrees. By using the blower and finned strip heaters I should be able to consolidate the exposure to the heating elements from any grease and in turn reduce the risk of fire. The reason I felt two 725 watt elements was because of overall size.
Here is a link to the finned strip heaters I was going to use...
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2E924
Here is a link to the high temperature blower I was going to use... There is also a slightly larger blower available with 82 CFM and the blower itself is a larger diameter. I'm not how much air movement I want. I know the circulation fan I installed in the Bradley is about 30 CFM and this cabinet is a lot larger.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1TDU9 This is the 76 CFM blower.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4C723 This is the 82 CFM blower.
Smoke Generator
I have an OBS smoke generator that I just purchased from Bryan at Yard & Pool which I will be mounting on it.
Vent
I felt I would make a 4 inch vent in the top of the unit, similar to the style of the one in the top of the Bradley. I think a 4 inch is enough???
Let me know what any of you guys think... Go ahead and shoot holes in my plans... I would sooner change my plans now, rather than later... Ice... What do you think?
Thanks guys
Mike
Wow! Look like a great project.
Mike, Sounds like a great project. How big is this thing? The reason I'm asking is if it is say the size of a double door cooler, like they sell soda out of, I would consider a vent over each side. Then by adjusting the vent openings you can assure the smokes is flowing around all the product and not just in up and out. Hope you understand my thinking. If its just about the size of a regular fridge than I would think the one four-inch would be plenty.
I'll have to take some actual measurements but off the top of my head its about 66 inches high and about 26 by 36 inches. It's a little larger than a standard fridge but not as big as a double door cooler. If you have seen Iceman's units it is very similar except it's the size of the one door unit.
Mike
Cool, if you want I can check at work to see if 1450 watts is enough to handle that size of a unit. I think all we need to know is the cubic feet of the unit, the desired temp and how long expected to get to temp. I know there are heat loss calculations that deal with the insulation, load size and so forth but I think I can at least get a ball park idea for you. Let me know the variables mentioned and I'll see what I can come up with. It would be a shame to order two 725 watt heaters if two 1000 watt heaters may be whats needed.
Thanks Pensrock
I would really appreciate that. I will take some actual interior measuements tonight.
Before I tore the unit apart I fired it up with out the blower working. I'll have to check but I believe it only has a 1200 watt element in it and even with the almost non existant insulation it would maintain a 200 degree temp but it take about 45 minutes to get there.
Mike
Mike,
You're gonna have to put a pic up of this new project, its got me curious, I love building(breaking!) stuff!
C
Here is a little more information.
The outside measurements are 25" W x 31" D x 66" H
The inside measurements are 21.5" W x 28" D x 61" H
The insulation in the sides, back, top and bottom will be 1 1/2 inches of Roxul Mineral Wool and the door will be the same insulation but it will be 1 1/4 inches thick.
Click on the Photos to enlarge them
In this picture I set the top portion that I have removed back on just to give an idea of the original height. When the wheels were under it, it was about another 4 inches higher.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0493s.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0493s.jpg)
This picture shows the interior. The inside of the door has been removed for insulation. You can see off to the right in the photo both the back panel and inside of the door leaning against the wall.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0494s.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0494s.jpg)
This picture shows the top control panel area removed. You can see the oxidization on the top of the control panel part of the cabinet (lower left of the photo). The clean spot is where I gave it a quick scrub with fine steel wool and a little vinegar & water.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0495s.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0495s.jpg)
This photo shows the unit laid down waiting for insulation and to be riveted back together.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0496s.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0496s.jpg)
Mike
I came across this BTU/Watt calculator. I thought some of you guys might be interested in it.
http://www.heatershop.com/btu_calculator.htm
According to this for average insulation and leakage I would need 1547 watts.
If it had good insulation and tight leakage I would need 773 watts.
This was based on a temp increase of 120 degrees above ambient (ambient being 70 degrees).
Mike
Mr. Walleye,
Somehow, I think you need more electronics on this... :D
Arcs_n_Sparks
well call me a worry wort but I worry about ventilation. 4 inch out is fine for the SG In. But the ventilation is driven by temperature difference unless you are powering that too. If not I would put addition adjustable vents in both at the top and bottom. Mike, keep in mind I have no clue what I am talking about but it is easy now vs later. Sausage wont see a huge tower temp, But then the moisture will be lower so condensation may not be a big deal... you have fun and I will worry :D :D :D
Hi WCK
I will be setting this up under my range hood, similar to how my DBS is setup. So, it is kinda a power vent. ;)
Arcs
I agree... more electronics ! :D I just need to figure out what?
Mike
Quote from: Mr Walleye on July 16, 2008, 09:07:26 PM
Arcs
I agree... more electronics ! :D I just need to figure out what?
I think you need humidity sensors with feedback to a stepper motor controlling the vent. That way, the brain can figure out relative humidity and avoid condensation. 8)
Arcs_n_Sparks
Quote from: Arcs_n_Sparks on July 16, 2008, 09:11:24 PM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on July 16, 2008, 09:07:26 PM
Arcs
I agree... more electronics ! :D I just need to figure out what?
I think you need humidity sensors with feedback to a stepper motor controlling the vent. That way, the brain can figure out relative humidity and avoid condensation. 8)
Arcs_n_Sparks
But... But... But... What would I do then? ::) ::)
:D :D ;D
Mike
Quote from: Mr Walleye on July 16, 2008, 09:14:08 PM
Quote from: Arcs_n_Sparks on July 16, 2008, 09:11:24 PM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on July 16, 2008, 09:07:26 PM
Arcs
I agree... more electronics ! :D I just need to figure out what?
I think you need humidity sensors with feedback to a stepper motor controlling the vent. That way, the brain can figure out relative humidity and avoid condensation. 8)
Arcs_n_Sparks
But... But... But... What would I do then? ::) ::)
:D :D ;D
Mike
You could then use the left over brain space to develop an automatic beverage delivery system to the smoker. ;D :D ;)
Hey Ice
What do you think of my idea for heating the unit and the watt size?
Mike
Looks like great fun, Mike. Good luck completing it.
Mike we did some heating calculations at work and figuring in a load of 30 pounds of meat, it looks like it will take 1750 watts to get the temp to 200 degrees in about 45 minutes. 2500 watts would get a 30 pound load to 200 in about thirty minutes. You'll most likely be doing more than 30 pounds at a time. The calculator did not list rock wool so we selected 2-inches of a rigid board material that we use in low temp cases. The heat loss for the insulation and 30 pound load will be about 300 watts. Hope this is useful, the 1450 watts you plan to use will get it to temp but will take longer and the recovery from opening the door will be longer also. At work we always error on excess heat rather than too little output. Using a PID temperature controller if it needs less heat it will just back off more, it can't add more heat than available. You will also have the 150 watts from the smoke generator. We did not add in any weight for the rack material or anything else that may be inside the tower at start up.
pens
Thanks Pens
I'm just in the process of calculating my total draw in amps. I will post what I come up with tonite.
Mike
I did some calculations...
Smoke Generator - 1.25 amps
2 x 900 watt finned Strip heaters - 15 amps
Blower - .65 amps
PID - ?? (probably so little it wouldn't matter)
Grand total - 16.9 amps
So, if I changed to two 900 watt finned strip heaters I should still be able to run it on a 20 amp circuit with 12/2 wiring.
Does this sound correct?
Mike
Close enough !!! ;D
Opps....
I just checked my garage and it's got 15 amp breakers with 14/2 wire.
I knew I should have waited till I got home before I made that last post! ::)
I do have 2 plugs about 3 feet apart that are on separate breakers. I guess I could break it up and use both plugs with out rewiring it.... What's your thoughts?
I guess another option would be to run a 240 line there and go that route.
Mike
I don't see why splitting on the two breakers won't work, although a new circuit would work also!
C
If it were me I would run a new 12/2 with gnd, line to a 20 amp receptical and use it only for the heat and one of the 15 amp recepticals for the other items. I bought one of the 900 watt finned heaters for my BDS but have not got around to installing it yet. It looks like a well built item. I'm glad to see you decided to up the heat, I would much rather have more than needed than not enough. If it were me I think I would be looking at the 1000 watt heaters, but I'm like Tim the toolman..... More POWER!!! ;D ;D
Quote from: Mr Walleye on July 17, 2008, 05:34:59 PM
I guess another option would be to run a 240 line there and go that route.
I'd go 240, then do one of two things. 1) Use a 240 volt outlet and plug to your box or 2) use a conventional 120 outlet and "split" it. This allows you to use conventional plugs (albeit two). You would still need to separate each heater element on to it's respective 120 volt leg.
Leftover kilowatts for additional adult beverage fridge, another freezer for all the stuff you are making, or small supercomputer to manage everything. I think you need some high brightness LEDs for door trim. Of course, it needs to be on the network with it's own URL so you can browse to it and make adjustments.
Arcs_n_Sparks
Thinking about this, my PID has to control both heaters together. So, if I was to use the two separate circuits that are currently there. The two 900 watt heaters would draw 15 amps plus the very limited draw of the PID. I could easily run the smoke generator and the blower off the other circuit. The question is... would the 15 amp circuit handle it?
I know I use my Cabelas Commercial Dehydrator on one of the circuits now and it has a 1600 watt element plus a blower in it.
Mike
If you are asking about putting 1800 watts on a single branch circuit, I would not do it. You will have trips...
Arcin' & Sparkin'
Quote from: Arcs_n_Sparks on July 17, 2008, 07:29:43 PM
If you are asking about putting 1800 watts on a single branch circuit, I would not do it. You will have trips...
Arcin' & Sparkin'
Thanks Arcs
I'm going to have to re-think this. If I have to run another circuit over there I might just as well do the 240 and boost the heaters a bit more as Pens indicated. I have lots of room on my panel.
Mike
I'd have to look at the Auber specs, but I think you could have your PID drive two SSRs. Each SSR would control each heating element on its own circuit. Your only addition would be a second SSR and associated wiring; everything else is the same.
Reddy Kilowatt
Arcs... You da man! 8)
I sent a quick email to Auber and they confirmed there is no problem for controlling two separate SSRs. The controller output can control at least three SSR in parallel.
Thanks again
Mike
We be Arcin' & Sparkin'......... MORE POWER.......... :o :o :o
Quote from: Arcs_n_Sparks on July 18, 2008, 06:59:05 PM
We be Arcin' & Sparkin'......... MORE POWER.......... :o :o :o
We can build it BIGGER......BETTER.....FASTER..... Thats right folks it swirls twirls hops and bops.... the new bionic smoker by ronco....but wait there's more.....if you call within the next ten minutes......we'll add an extra bubba puck... :D ;D ;)
I've got most of it re-insulated now. I'm just working on cutting down the top (previously the control panel). I'll update the photos when I get a little further along.
I modified the wiring diagram from Olds Recipe site to take into account the 2 SSRs. Let me know if you guys see any errors in my ways....
Click to enlarge...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_PIDWiring.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/PIDWiring.jpg)
Mike
Looks pretty good Mr. Walleye.....
I suspect in another fews years we will be reviewing your 208V 3 phase setup... :o :o :o
Arcs_n_Sparks
Looks like you are making a lot of progress. I can't wait to see the finished product.
I updated my wiring diagram. I added a dimmer switch to control the speed of the blower and I also added the power out to the smoke generator. Here is the updated picture.
Any glaring errors?
Click to enlarge...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_diagram2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/diagram2.jpg)
Mike
Looks like it should work. Only thing I noticed is there is no ground going to the controller (PID). Not experienced using Auber products there may not be a ground terminal on the instrument. ???
Thanks Pens
I had a look at the Auber manual again and there is not a ground for the PID itself.
Mike
looks good there Walleye, out of my own coureosty,, will you be useing either of the two alarms to turn on /off the smoke generator?
outlander
Hey Outlander, good to here from you. I haven't seen you around the forum for a long time. I hope Cold Lake is still treatin' ya good!
I really hadn't given it much thought. In fact I would have to do a little "figurin" to figure it out. It's an interesting thought. If I remember correctly you did something similar with the alarms on your PID. I'd be very interested in hearing how you set it up. I'm assuming the alarm would run a relay or something like that. I can't remember, do the alarms work off temp or time? I really don't know a lot about the alarms or the settings for them. I'd appreciate any information from your experience.
I ended up upgrading to 2 - 1100 watt elements. I have pretty much all the parts and pieces except I'm still waiting for the elements and the box I'm mounting the controls in. Those two items were back ordered. I've got the smoker all riveted back together with the rock wool insulation in it, I've just been tinkering with the vent and mounting the smoke generator. I haven't started any of the wiring yet so I still have time for changes.
Mike
There are many different types of alarms available in most instruments, I'm not familiar with the Auber though. I cannot say if the Auber has a timed alarm function.
I have one of my alarms set to act like a high limit, it will turn the heat off if the temp ever gets that high, it can be set to whatever temp you prefer. If that temp is acheaved it will open the control signal feeding the SSR, thereby shutting off the heat. I also have it set so it has to fall below the high temp setting and be acknowledged before turning heat back on. It could be set to automatically reset once the temp drops but most will not want to operate at that high of a temp also I want to be able to watch it if it happens the next time.
My other alarm turns on a timer when a certian temp is reached. For example if I set the alarm for 120 degrees, the timer won't function till the tower reaches 120 then the timer will shut the heat off when it times out. The timer can be set for however many hours you desire. This way its not timing during the recovery period after putting the product into the tower. I also have the time on a selector switch so I can deactivate the timer function if I want to. As the timer is configured now, I can time up to 99.9 hours. I think thats plenty. :)
pens
Mr. Walleye at some point you moving beyond a master craftsman ;D
HEY OUTLANDER, welcome back. ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Pens & WCK
If I understand it correctly the Auber uses temp to signal the alarm. It appears the Auber has 2 alarms. I just don't see how this would help my situation. Maybe I'm missing something or not fully understanding it.
Most of my use for this unit will be for sausage. My normal proceedure is to load the smoker and run it at about 120 or 130 for an hour or so to allow the sausage to dry somewhat. Then I boost the temp to 165 or 170 and start the smoke. I could easily enough use a regular timer to control the generator. If I turn the generator on at the same time I load the smoker, then "not" advance any pucks, this would give me my 1 hour before the smoke starts to roll and the generator would be pre-heated. As far as shutting the generator off the timer would look after that.
Mike
Geez... I thought things were finally looking up. A delivery truck showed up at my office today and had my two 1100 watt finned strip heaters. Excellent! Then I open the package and.... oh crap! they sent one 120 volt unit and the other 240 volts. To top it off when I called them they were already closed for the long weekend.
Man... This is sooooooooo my luck! :'(
Mike
Using Auber alarm, yes, it works great. I currently use the alarm on my OBS, it is triggered by temp. My usual set up is start at 120* and ramp to 145 over 3 hours. When the temp hits 145, the alarm is set to kick on and completes the circuit of the hot puck advance motor wire. When the activated, 20 mins. later the motor advances the first puck and you're good to go. Just remember to turn on the heat of the puck plate ahead of time! ::)
PLUS, if you tie a string from the vent handle onto a small weight and place the weight on the top puck in the tower and adust the string tight, after it advances twice, the vent will be closed to 1/4th open. The wires of my PID TC and meat probes prevent the vent closing all the way to ensure good air flow and now smoke back up.
Works like a charm. AFter 4 hours of ramping to 165 while the smoke is on, the alarm will turn off at 165* and shuts the puck advance motor off, thus saving wear and tear.
Awesome project you have.
Do you plan on stuffing the frame tubes with your left over min. wool? I bet you can have that thing tight as heck and could probably get away with lower wattage elements.
Also, will you make a vent in the bottom at all? I have wider unit but not as tall, and I don't think the opening for the SG will be enough vent, so was planning to make an adjustable vent in the very bottom. Do you think one is necessary for yours??
Patience
hey all,,alls good up here in cold lake. just moved onto a small acrage out in the country.
walleye,,, the alarms are programable in the function set up. at least in the 30 step function controler that i got.i used the step function to actvate the alarm to turn on the smoker through a relay.used some bannana clips to jumper from controler box to the smoke gen.will have to sort through the old computer to find the pics that i had. in the end, i could set the temp,then turn on smoke for X # hours's, turn off smoke gen after a set time frame, and set the temp up or down as needed with out having to sit around the smoker to drink beer when i could be out fishing and rinking the beer. works great for bacon or sasuges.
outlander
will try to find some pics to repost for you.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=4884.msg43836#msg43836
above link should bring up some old pics
Outlander
Thanks for digging up the photos. By the sounds of it I think you have the ramp feature on your PID.
The PID I have does not have a ramp feature.
Patience
It sounds like your PID also has the ramp feature because you have the ability to run for a certain period of time, then ramp the temp up, giving you the ability to use the alarms to turn on the generator at a specific temp. That way it sort of works like a timer.
I didn't put any insulation in the frame tubes. I only had access to the vertical tubes, I guess I could have stuffed them but the rest if the frame was inaccessible. The way the unit is built, the only part that's not insulated is in the very corner because you have 2 insulated walls meeting there. It came from the factory without insulation in there, in fact it had the wiring in the vertical tubes.
I am making my top vent similar to the one on the Bradley but the hole will be 4 inch diameter. I wasn't planning on any addition vents on the bottom other than through the smoke generator. My setup in my garage has a range hood over it. With a piece of 5 inch PVC you can focus the draw of the range hood directly over the top vent in the smoker. Sort of a power assist to the vent. I plan on setting this unit up in the garage as well. Here's a link to my setup with the Bradley in my garage.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=6075.0
Mike
I finally got all my parts in and got this thing put together. I did a test run with a 40 lb batch of sausage and it worked very well. I think I could comfortably do 80 lbs of sausage in this thing. Here's some pictures.
This shows the wiring in the main control box. I used heat sinks under the SSRs and a 30 CFM blower for cooling.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0498.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0498.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0499.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0499.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0500.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0500.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0501.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0501.jpg)
This shows the 130 CFM blower I used to circulate air over the 1100 watt finned strip heaters.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0503.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0503.jpg)
Sausage waiting for smoke...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0504.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0504.jpg)
This shows how I mounted the strip heaters and the air intake for the blower. I may add a deflector between the intake and the heaters. So far it works good as is so I will just monitor it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0505.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0505.jpg)
Close up of the control panel. I added indicator lights for each circuit so you can easily see if you have a power problem with either circuit.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0506.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0506.jpg)
This picture shows how I connected both smokers to my rangehood vent.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/th_IMGP0507.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMGP0507.jpg)
Mike
Congradulations. That a real nice job.
Nice job. So where are the free samples? ;) ;D ;D
Mr. Walleye,
Very nice. Those are some long sausages.... :o :o :o
Arcs_n_Sparks
Thanks guys.
Arcs, they were a little too long, a couple of them pulled apart. I just wanted to see if I could do it that way. I had some linked and some just really long. In the future I will hang an upper row and a lower row to avoid them self destructing. They turned out great though! ;)
Mike
Nice looking job Mike!
When do you want to come down here and built mine ?
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: FLBentRider on September 21, 2008, 08:22:44 AM
Nice looking job Mike!
When do you want to come down here and built mine ?
;D ;D ;D
Hey! I work for beer! You couldn't afford me! ;D
It was a fun project. The only frustrating thing was constantly waiting for parts. Over all I'm real happy with it.
Mike
Nice job Mike!
Great job. Let us know about the big load you do, I bet 80lbs wouldn't be too much! Think about it, it takes the SAME amount of clean up time of the grinding, mixing and stuffing equipment whether you do 5lbs of sausage, or 80lbs. Opt for the more!
I have a question though. The Bradley sight lists the Smoke Generator w/adapter as such:
Power: 120 V 50 - 60 Hz , - 5.5 Amps (240 Volt Model also Available)
ETL & CE Listed
I noticed earlier in your post you calculated 1.25 amps. I'm assuming the 150Watt puck burner/ 110-120v?? The puck advance motor draws zilch, so yea, I agree with you're math skills. So...where does Bradley come up with 5.5amps???
The reason I'm asking, is the alarm output on my PID will handle 3amps at 120volts. If indeed the Smoke generator is rated less than this, I can use the alarm relay to run 110v power to the smoke generator and turn it on when I need it and off when I don't. My cabinet does not need the heat produced from the puck burner like the B.S. does to maintain temps.
So where does the 5.5amp rating come from?
Quote from: Patience on September 27, 2008, 08:43:01 PM
I noticed earlier in your post you calculated 1.25 amps. I'm assuming the 150Watt puck burner/ 110-120v?? The puck advance motor draws zilch, so yea, I agree with you're math skills. So...where does Bradley come up with 5.5amps???
Patience
Your assumption on my calculations are correct, or at least in my line of thinking. Where Bradley gets 5.5 amps from... I don't have a clue. I agree the advance motor would use so little I never even used it in the calculation. I would send Bradley am email and ask for an explaination. I can't imagine that the 5.5 is correct... it just doesn't make sense.
Mike
Patience
I went and had a look at Bradley's site. What they have done is they have copied the same information from the Bradley Original to the Smoke Generator Adaptor Specs. The only thing they removed was the 500 watt main heater in their specs. If you calculate the 500 watts + 125 watts/ 120 volts you get 5 amps and some change. They rounded it to 5.5 amps.
Here is the link to the Bradley Original specs.
http://www.bradleysmoker.com/bradley-original-smoker.asp
Here is the link to the Smoke Generator & Adaptor specs.
http://www.bradleysmoker.com/smoke-generator-with-adaptor.asp
Clearly the 5.5 amp rating on the generator only is incorrect.
Mike
Good enough for me, thanks for the leg work. ;D I'm gonna give the alarm control of the generator a go and see how it goes.
What did you seal your door with, if anything? high temp?
Quote from: Patience on September 28, 2008, 08:34:28 PM
Good enough for me, thanks for the leg work. ;D I'm gonna give the alarm control of the generator a go and see how it goes.
What did you seal your door with, if anything? high temp?
No problem, I knew the numbers didn't look right.
I used the rope gasket for a woodstove door. It's available from fireplace/woodstove stores by the foot. It comes in all different sizes as well. I used high temp silicone to attach it. I also used 4 screws in the corners to hold it in place till it dried.
Mike
I knew the Iceman would come through for us ! ;D.....The Iceman knows cool 8)
Coyote
Hey Walleye I read through the whole post and wow that is an awesome project, and pretty much what I have envisioned doing. My only question is where do I get a lockwood proofer/warmer cabinet or something that same size?
Smokeitall
I was lucky and got this unit for free from a Chef here in town. Lockwood is just a brand name, there are others. You may want to talk to anybody you can think of that might be involved in any type of restaurant, donut shops, pizza places, hospitals, or institutions of any kind. A lot of commercial businesses use these types of units and when they replace them they usually just want rid of them. You may also want to check with any commercial appliance dealer as they may have a non-working model.
Mike
Walleye,
What would you think about using two Brinkmann 1500 watt heating elements? They are a little bulky but I think I could still use a high temp blower and make an air channel similar to yours. I have one already from an old smoker I junked and I could get another one for around $20.
Or I was also looking at the heating element on sausagemaker.com that is 220V 5000 watts and only 15"x4"x4" and is $60.00. Do you thinkg this would be too much power (if there is such a thing :))
Thanks,
Quote from: smokeitall on September 30, 2008, 11:52:31 AM
Walleye,
What would you think about using two Brinkmann 1500 watt heating elements? They are a little bulky but I think I could still use a high temp blower and make an air channel similar to yours. I have one already from an old smoker I junked and I could get another one for around $20.
I don't see why they wouldn't work. The main reason I built the heating system the way I did was to try to keep any dripping grease away from them. I'm assuming these elements are 120 volt so you would have to power them individually which is what I did.
Quote from: smokeitall on September 30, 2008, 11:52:31 AM
Or I was also looking at the heating element on sausagemaker.com that is 220V 5000 watts and only 15"x4"x4" and is $60.00. Do you thinkg this would be too much power (if there is such a thing :))
Thanks,
I looked at that one too! I was looking at the whole kit found here - http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1370 What I didn't like about this was it is vented and actually draws air into the smoker. Although if you only bought the element you could eliminate this in your design.
There is no reason it wouldn't work as well. Of course you would be running 220 to instead. As far as the size of the element goes, as long as you are going to control it with a PID it doesn't matter if you oversize it, it will just spend less time running.
Mike
Walleye
you may consider two PIDS, One for each heater.. and offset one of the heaters by ten degrees or so this way once the box temp is achived you will only the nessaary heat and if you have a larger food load both heaters will work toghter to keep the box at temp you can save energy by only running 1 heater... other then that it looks good.
just my 2 cents
Thanks Beefmann
She is ticking along pretty good right now so I will probably leave it as is for now, although mutiple PID's wood definitely look good. ;)
Mike
Hey Mike,
I am starting to build my "big" smoker this next week. I have my proofer cabinet (actually ended up with two, don't ask). I checked on the insulation and it looks like fiberglass and in excellent condition.
After using yours for 6 months or more now are there any things that you would have done different?
I plan on purchasing a heating element that I found on ebay. I have 220V in my garage and the element is rated at 5500 watts at 240V. At 120V it is rated at around 1375 watts. I plan on using the 220V. I like your design a lot using a high temp fan and circulating over the elements. I have to purchase another generator yet also.
For the controls I am going to use my PLC / Touch Screen set up.
The current door seal on the unit looks like it may be a grey silicone material, but I am not sure. Do you think I can use this or should I get something similar to yours?
Any suggestions would be great.
Hi Smokeitall
Sounds like an awesome project! You'll have to keep us posted on your progress.
There is not a lot I would have done different. The one comment I would make is regarding the size of the heating elements. Mine works fine but I wouldn't go any smaller. I think your plan of going 220 is the right way to do. Your better off to have to much than too little for sure. Besides, it's being digitally controlled anyway so the element will just spend less time a full power.
I'll be interested in your PLC/Touch Screen setup for sure!
I would think your door seal will be fine. The unit was designed for heat so it shouldn't be a problem. On mine the door seal was in poor shape and had to be replaced.
I'll look forward to your updates! ;)
Mike
Quote from: smokeitall on March 27, 2009, 09:28:21 AM
I have my proofer cabinet (actually ended up with two, don't ask). I checked on the insulation and it looks like fiberglass and in excellent condition.
Since you have TWO and only need ONE I'm guessing that the other one might just be out alongside the Garage. Now all I have to do is find out where that garage is and do a night time surveillance drive by. Snatch it up and leave some fresh bacon behind. Smoke wont be the wiser. OOP's there I go thinking with my fingers again. Now Smoke will know my plan. I have searched all over for one of them Proffer/ tray warmers cant find any and Smoke finds 2. If your close Smoke maybe we can work a deal.
I live in St. Louis but I make it up to Southern Wisconsin every month or so. Let me know where you are?
I have just re-wired my big smoker to 220 a couple of weekends ago and thought I would update the information in my post.
I used a 3000 watt oven element. This replaced two 1100 watt finned strip heater. The oven elements are cheap... about $25. Running empty, I can hit 200 degrees in about 20 minutes from cold. It really works very well with the added power.
I also wired in a second controller, TC and contactor which will operate as a high limit control. Because I have mine built into my heated garage I want it to be as safe as possible. Total cost for the additional controller and the contactor is about $50 so it is a fairly cheap safety device. By doing this, if my main PID or SSR or TC failed and allowed the element to run full throttle, once the temp hit the preset level on the second controller all power is shutdown by the contactor. I also changed out the non-programable controller I had and installed a programable one.
Here's one looking down showing the drip pan protection...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0576_800x600.jpg)
Here's another one showing a front view of the drip pan setup...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0574_800x600.jpg)
This is a little closer view of the same angle...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0575_800x600.jpg)
Here is one with the drip pan above the element removed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0578_800x600.jpg)
The one thing the picture really doesn't show is the sheet pan under the element is spaced about 1 inch off the bottom of the smoker. I did this to allow some cooling effect to the bottom of the smoker.
Here is one of the wiring in the control box.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0643_800x600.jpg)
Here is one of the front of the control box with the second controller installed and running.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0652_800x600.jpg)
I can try to put together a wiring schematic if anybody is interested. It runs very well. I ran a few tests setting the high limit at 180 and fired it up. As soon as it hit 180 the contactor shut everything down just like it's supposed to.
Mike
Very nice work Mike, now if I can just find the time to finish mine up.
SIA
Mike if you can put a drawing together for dummies :D i could do mine like this.
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on February 27, 2010, 10:37:06 AM
Mike if you can put a drawing together for dummies :D i could do mine like this.
I say we just send both of them up to Mike and have him fix them right up. Then he can send them back when he's done.
That's awesome...
You need a giant knife switch on it - just for show.
Something like this (http://www.sia-web.org/chapters/knight/newsletters/Issue_17_files/switch-panel.jpg). :D
Quote from: squirtthecat on February 27, 2010, 11:37:04 AM
That's awesome...
You need a giant knife switch on it - just for show.
Something like this (http://www.sia-web.org/chapters/knight/newsletters/Issue_17_files/switch-panel.jpg). :D
:D :D :D :D ;D
Throw the switch.... and all the city lights dim while it comes up to temp.
:D :D :D :D ;D
Mike
Very nice upgrade.
Wow, Mike, does the term Tim Allen mean anything to you ???
Quote from: West Coast Kansan on February 28, 2010, 10:16:16 AM
Wow, Mike, does the term Tim Allen mean anything to you ???
:D :D :D :D ;D
Ya gotta play! ::)
Great to see ya kickin' around the forum again WCK.
Mike
should be around on weekends at least now. travel has been crazy the last several months. Only problem is the forum has grown so much there is 11 pages of new stuff in one week... Good to ping you too. :)
There was a few requests for my wiring schematics so here they are. Any questions just ask because my drawing skills are not the greatest.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/220diagramcopy.jpg)
Mike
PS
I meant to add that the SYL-1512A is setup as a high limit controller in this situation. The "outy" setting is set to "5" (limit control mode).
Now I have a headache.
Quote from: classicrockgriller on March 02, 2010, 04:29:34 PM
Now I have a headache.
You think you have one! ::)
:D :D :D ;D
Mike
Lots of good information here. Lets hope I can do half of the stuff you did.
justwandr
You won't have any problem. Just take your time and check everthing you do.
Hell... If I can do it anybody can.
Mike
Mike I have gone over this several times and especially the last couple of pages after you had switched to 220*
I was a little confused about how you installed the element, but one of the pics kinda shows an "Area" for the wiring of the
element. If you have a good pic of this area, I would appreciate it.
Also can you give me a link to the Element That you used.
I am very impressed with this "Proofer" smoker. I think this is something that I want to try my hand at as well. I have found a few used Proofers that I can pick up for around $150. Anyone know if this is reasonable? I would think free would be much better but I don't think they will go that low. Any idea what the cost would be to covert the proofer to a smoker with the SG, PID, controls, high limit switch etc?
Sailor, some proofers are non insulated. If it is insulated, then $150 is very reasonable and yes "Free" is better. ;D
The pid is probably gonna be $200, element $30, plus this and that. So somewhere around $300.
But Mike can tell you better as he has done it and mine is in the planning stage.
CRG
I will have a look and see if I can post a picture of it.
Sailor
$150 for an insulated proofer in reasonable condition would be a great deal in my opinion. I did get this one for free but it had been sitting outside and I had to remove all the exterior panels and re-insulate because it had got wet.
The total cost is a tough call but if it helps, the other one I just built for a friend... I spent $1000 on everything which also included 4 - 120 boxes of pucks. You have to remember that I'm in Canada and most of the parts had to come from the US so this also includes international shipping, currency exchange and the dreaded brokers fees.
Mike
Plus Mike bought a smoke generator and I am hoping to let my OBS gen do double duty since I already have the adaptor plate.
In the end, if I have a $1000 in it and it can smoke 40 butts, I am happy!
Would you check on the link on the element?
I have looked at so many my eyes are crossed!
Thanks.
(Gabi says Hi!)
CRG
Here is a picture, although not that great, you can get the idea of it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/IMG_0578_800x600.jpg)
What I did was bend an 18 or 20 gauge piece of metal. There is a 1 inch flange to screw it to the wall and a 1 inch flange to screw it to the floor. The (upside down) "L" shape in this case was 4 inches by 4 inches. This creates a 4 inch channel for the wiring and also to mount the element to. You can extend it from the wall more, or less than the 4 inches, this is just to get the element in the centre of the cabinet and to protect the wiring.
Hope that made sense ???
Mike
PS
I'll have a look for an element on line and post a link for you.
Mike, makes perfect sense!
Thanks, I kinda thought it was something close to that.
That will be an easy do.
CRG
If you look at the sheet pan under the element you will see 4 small screws. On the bottom side I have small 1 inch "L" brackets bolted to each corner. This provides a 1 inch air space under the element pan for air circulation. The most important thing in selecting an element is to find one that fits inside the sheet pan. I just went snooping through a local hardware store that sells oven elements and selected one that would fit. The one I selected also has a small bracket attached to it that holds it up off the sheet pan. It's toward the right side of the picture and appears as a vertical line in the picture.
Anyway, Here's some links I found on line to similar elements. In the element pictures each square represents 1 inch so you can count out the dimensions. I don't see where it says what the watt rating is on any of these so you would want to check into that but they are 220 oven broiler elements. It seems the broiler elements are a little nicer fit for the sheet pan size.
http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetail.aspx?s=t-oven+element-%3d%3di3380&PartID=3380
http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetail.aspx?s=t-oven+element-%3d%3di1236072&PartID=1236072
http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetail.aspx?s=t-oven+element-%3d%3di544&PartID=544
Mike
Choice's? did you say Choice's? grrrr
Thanks for all you have done!
I will name my first smoke after you! ;D
(Gabi says Hi Mike)
WOW !!! Mr. Walleye , You are as amazing as ever my friend !!! I have been reading and reading this thread over and over again . I'm gonna give this a shot in the very near future.
I have to get back to being a more active member of this great on-line community !!! Happy Memorial Day smokers !!! Please remember......to remember.....
Coyote