Salt cure for 1 hour? And what about "suprefreezing" to kill bacteria?

[dannyd]

Just a couple of questions guys. I wanted to replicate the technique/recipe that some cold smoked salmon company uses as demonstraited here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh_BCI1yrfs

Whats interesting is how they only use the salt cure for 1 hour? Surely that's not long enough is it?! Although they do also smoke it for what, something like 24 hours (but only at 10 °C)...

Also they superfreeze (ultra low temperature freeze) it to kill any bacteria in the fish. Being a sushi and sashimi lover i know that there is an issue of bacteria surviving in fish, salmon in particular, if its not cooked. I know now in the USA legislation states that it is illegal to sell raw fish in a restaurant without the fish having been frozen to -70 °C for X many day beforehand. What do you guys do/think relating to this issue?

[KyNola]

I think you should go to the recipe website at www.susanminor.org  and take a look at the salmon recipes there.  There are some great cold smoked/cured recipes there.

Danny, I really like your enthusiasm but you're making this smoking thing all far too difficult.  Relax and have some fun with it all. 

Not sure what you've been reading but I can assure you that all the places I eat sushi and salmon carpaccio, the fish hasn't been frozen at -70C for days and I live in the USA.  Quite the contrary.

I truly mean no disrespect to you my friend.

KyNola

[Habanero Smoker]

Sounds like an interesting video, but can't seem to get it to run on this machine. I may have to check it out later on another computer.

As for superfreeze, I've never heard of that process until you posted it. I did a google search and came up with this link:
Shusi Grade Fish.

It appears there are no FDA regulations, just recommendations; though a state may impose more stricter regulations.

[dannyd]

KyNola and Habanero, thanks for the feedback.

I cant find the web document that i was thinking of but yeah my mistake i think they were recommendations. I was only asking about the freezing because i haven't tried cold smoking fish before and was warned by a few people (and a few websites) about the dangers of raw fish (was generally when talking about sashimi though) and freezing it and bla bla, just didn't want to make any one ill hehehe. I think the thing is if i do get any salmon to cold smoke it will probably be farmed salmon here in England...

no offence taken at all KyNola  :) i do have a tendency to look into things a bit too much lol! By the way, that recipe website was excellent, theres so much stuff there!

So in your opinions, i guess there isn't anything to worry about when cold smoking salmon?

One last thing, can extending smoke time make up for a shorter dry cure time?

Thanks a lot for your patience with me guys  :-[ hehehe

[KyNola]

Danny,
Talking strictly about salmon, if it has been cured as in a gravlox style, there is absolutely nothing wrong with cold smoking salmon.  Recipe website has a couple of killer recipes for that.

While smoking is a form of curing I would not trust smoking in a Bradley to compensate for a shorter dry curing time as the fish is typically not in the Bradley with smoke long enough to make up for the difference.

Have fun Danny and let's see some of your smoked salmon!

KyNola

[ExpatCanadian]

Hi Danny,

I noticed in your post you are also in the UK.  I've done a few salmon smokes now with fantastic results, but the main thing of course for us guys who don't have the luxury of catching our own is to make sure you are getting the absolute freshest fish and the best quality possible and that you know as much as possible about how that fish was produced.  It's really the only way to avoid any "nastys" and as long as you do this you can be reasonably sure your fish will be safe for whatever you're planning to do with it.

If you are in London, I recommend and regularly buy from Billingsgate Fish Market....  loads of farmed salmon available, but always speak to the stall operator and make sure he can tell you exactly what you need to know about it.  If he can't, move on and find one that can.... 

Billingsgate is probably the cheapest, but for even more peace of mind I've also bought direct from Wester Ross Fishery in Scotland.  About double the price....  but I like their philosophy and if you have to buy farmed, I don't think you can do much better.  I normally buy from Billingsgate, but I recently did a batch of Kummok's salmon for a pregnant friend and needed to be 150% sure that NOTHING was in the meat that would affect her pregnancy.

Hope this helps!

[dannyd]

Thanks for that KyNola! As soon as iv made some ill post some pictures for sure.

ExpatCanadian, you're in the UK?! Nice! Thanks for the pointers, i don't really know any fishmongers that i would have trusted. I live in Kent but that's only 40 minutes on the train from Victoria so a good cooler case should do it hey!

What sort of questions do i want to be asking the fishmonger? Some advice in this area would be really appreciated!

[Habanero Smoker]

Danntd;

I never saw anything wrong with your post. On this site there are no stupid questions. I thought your question was interesting, since I've never heard of the process and now I have learned a little more.

Things can go wrong cold smoking salmon, but if you follow proper procedures and reliable recipes you will always obtain a safe product.

[dannyd]

'thanks for the advice Habenero :)

[ExpatCanadian]

Hi Danny,  sorry for the delayed reply, I was away all weekend and have only just popped back onto the forum today.

The main questions I ask are (1) Where has it come from (2) Who produced it and how (3) When was it harvested.

I want to know I am buying as locally as possible....  it generally follows that it will have travelled less and hopefully the quality will reflect that.  I like to know who produced it because I can look them up and learn about their philosophy/methods etc.  This is obviously not something you can generally know on the spot...  but keep it in mind for when you are a repeat customer.  I want to know when it was harvested for obvious reasons....  :)

Of course, trust your eyes and nose....  you'll get the hang of it.

As for coming into Victoria to go to Billingsgate, that might be a bit of a hassle.... especially as you need to get there around 5am for the best selection.  If you have a car, I'd recommend driving up on a Saturday morning, come round the M25 and up the A2.....  it's literally just on the other side of the Blackwall Tunnel.  It's quite an experience....!

[dannyd]

Expat, please, no apology necessary at all, Everyones doing their own thing :) Thanks a lot for the reply though, i appreciate the info and your time! This really is a great community - i love how the people here are so committed to sharing their knowledge and time!

I see, yeah it would be a bit difficult to make it there for that time on a train lol. I'm definitely interested in making a trip to check it out. I'll bet its pretty cool! I will definitely be checking it out.

Thanks again!

[ArnieM]

Interesting thread.  I do like salmon but I'm pretty particular.  We have something here called North Atlantic salmon, fresh caught, farm raised.  Caught with what?  I don't bother with them.  Actually, Costco, a warehouse club in the U.S. has them.  If you read the label, it says "artificial color added" - that's to make them look like salmon.  A friend of mine is going fishing in Nova Scotia next week and he promised to bring something back.

On another note - I do like Sashimi.  Every now and then my local grocery has Sashimi grade tuna.  Absolutely wonderful, either raw or grilled to rare. 

Sorry, I don't want to hijack the thread.