Author Topic: What can be truly cold smoked?  (Read 22827 times)

Offline whitetailfan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Nice Rack
What can be truly cold smoked?
« on: March 26, 2004, 05:20:11 am »
I have read nearly every thread on the forums and am still confused.
One of the great features of the Bradley is the ability to cold smoke, but what is ever cold smoked[?]

Every recipe or discussion I come across at some point has the internal temperature rising to a fully cooked temperature.
Exactly what is cold smoked salmon for instance, and is it safe?
Someone had a good recipe or discussion on their cold smoked fish, but then talked about finishing it off on the Foreman Grill.

Simply - Is there a meat product out there that is never brought up to 130+ deg before eating it[?]

I thought I would cold smoke some salmon this weekend, but if it needs to be cooked afterward, I will take it up to temp in the Bradley, its only going to be a couple of tiny "fillet pieces" that would be for snacking only.

The definition in the manual is smoking below 100deg, but I don't know when I would use that if I have to cook the product after[:(]

Looking for someone to truly define cold smoking and when a person would use that process[:D][:D][:D]

John - Lethbridge, AB
Vegetarian is an ancient aboriginal word meaning "lousy hunter"
We have enough youth...how about a fountain of smart?
Living a healthy lifestyle is simply choosing to die at the slowest possible rate.

Offline Bassman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2004, 01:01:46 pm »
The first pork butt I ever smoked I hot smoked for 5hrs.took it and finished it in the oven.After pulling it apart the next day I tasted it and thought it could use more smoke. So I put it back in the smoker with no heat,only smoke for about 1hr. Then life was good!Cheese is another good example of smoking without heat.

<i><font color="blue"><b>Jack</i></font id="blue"></b>
Jack

Offline trout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 103
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2004, 11:15:50 pm »
Cold smoked salmon is perfectly safe if cured properly.  It does not need to reach any particular temp.  It is packed in a salt cure, and is essentially edible with or without smoke (see other threads for some salt cure recipes for salmon).  Also see the other smoked salmon threads for tips on how to keep the temp in your smoker as cool as possible while cold smoking.  I have had great success smoking cheddar cheese blocks also.  Temp is not as crucial as with the salmon, but you still want it as cool as possible and use the highest rack to avoid melting your cheese.  I smoked mine for a little over an hour and got a good smoky flavor.[8D]

Let your trout go and smoke a salmon instead.

Offline Chez Bubba

  • Tryin' to be a good guy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,969
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2004, 01:23:54 am »
Trout nails it, at least in my semi-informed opinion. Cold smoking must include curing to be safe, unless you later hot cook it. Therefore, most anything CAN be cold smoked, you just have to follow the right rules.

This is one of the primary reasons I enjoy this forum. I know only bits about this particular process & can read posts from people who can teach me more through their experience.

It ain't work if you're learning what you love,

Kirk[8D]

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
http://www.brianswish.com
Ya think if next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non", they would mind?

Offline whitetailfan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Nice Rack
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2004, 07:08:22 am »
Thanks guys,
I am going to try to cold smoke my salmon tomorrow.  I did a dry rub of Morton tenderquik to specs, plus added some extra course salt just to be sure.  The Morton package says that 4 hours will do, but mine is going overnight, so it should be properly cured.

This is a big part of smoking that is poorly covered with the manual, as someone eluded to in the Curing topic.  I always new that cure was required for some stuff, as I come from a family who makes home made game sausage which I have helped to prepare MANY batches in my life[:p]

The confusing part is that the main purpose of a cure is to deter bacteria through the time that you are smoking.  Since it is a long process at lower than normal temp (say compared to oven roasting at 350deg) that is where the danger zone is.  The fact that a meat product is cured, still does not make me want to eat it uncooked, but with fish that does not seem to be a problem.

I love this forum, because the secrets to smoking and other recipes are usually more closely guarded than Fort Knox, yet we all share a great deal.

John - Lethbridge, AB
Vegetarian is an ancient aboriginal word meaning "lousy hunter"
We have enough youth...how about a fountain of smart?
Living a healthy lifestyle is simply choosing to die at the slowest possible rate.

Offline trout

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 103
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2004, 04:48:14 pm »
Bradley has a video out with some recipes including a cold smoked salmon recipe.  I found the video to be rather down to earth and entertaining as they are constantly reminding the viewer that they are not expert cooks.  But anyway, their drycure method for cold smoked salmon as well as most I have found call for the fish to be pressed while curing.  Most recipes suggest using a brick or other heavy object wrapped in foil or plastic to weigh down on the fish.  After curing overnight it should be firm.[;)]

Let your trout go and smoke a salmon instead.

Offline Chez Bubba

  • Tryin' to be a good guy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,969
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2004, 09:36:13 pm »
Did you also notice in the video that they appeared to enjoying a few beverages along the way. I thought it was pretty funny, but then again, I guess it's not that far from reality.[:D]

They looked pretty rough the next day though. I'll have to ask the Mrs if I look like that.[:D]

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
http://www.brianswish.com
Ya think if next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non", they would mind?

Offline n/a

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2004, 06:25:26 pm »
I like to cold smoke burgers before grilling and rib eye steaks are just the best after a good cold smoke then grilled. Bradley is the best.. I have been seeing smoked salt in some high end stores. I think Bradley can do that. Cold smoking can make you look like a chef to your friends.

Offline Bad Flynch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 89
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2004, 04:05:30 am »
Taking all meats to a fully cooked temperature is a modern Canadian practice and may even be Canadian law for commercially processed meats. In the U.S., bacon (U.S. style), is almost never precooked this way. There are still old-fashioned hams available that are not cooked at all, some "Canadian" bacons, pork jowl; some pork chops (cured and smoked) are and some are not, most fish is not cooked, most sausages are now brought to a fully cooked temperature. Sausage varies, however, and one must read the label: some is and some isn't. Cold smoking is actually a little better when the meat is not cooked, as in all-beef summer sausages in the past. If one could find trichina-free certified pork, it could be used in some of the old uncooked pork sausages.

B.F.
B.F.

Offline Chez Bubba

  • Tryin' to be a good guy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,969
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2004, 04:42:10 am »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bad Flynch</i>
<br />If one could find trichina-free certified pork, it could be used in some of the old uncooked pork sausages.

B.F.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">From what I've read, virtually all pork is trichnea-free these days and if you want to be extra-cautious, just freeze it for 21 days.

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
http://www.brianswish.com
Ya think if next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non", they would mind?

Offline Bad Flynch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 89
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2004, 04:54:41 pm »
[/quote]From what I've read, virtually all pork is trichnea-free these days and if you want to be extra-cautious, just freeze it for 21 days.[/quote]

The standards, in the U.S. for freezing pork and then being able to call it "certified trichina-free" are quite rigid. Nevertheless, a good freeze with a certain minimum temperature and a certain length of time would do one at home quite well. What brought this to mind is that I have an old Hungarian recipe for cold smoked sausage that is essentially 100% pork butt.

B.F.
B.F.

Offline dana

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2004, 10:34:47 pm »
Hi John,
I ran a cold smoke salmon operation for 9 years and thought i could answer your questions on cold smoking. For the salmon and trout that I did, the kiln temp could never exceed 30C. If it did rise above this the fish would slowly cook and become mushy. I have recently purchased a bradley smoker for this purpose only as a hobby now but have come to find out that their idea of cold smoking is anything between 40C and 80C which was a kick in the head to me. Even their brochure touts it as a primo cold smoker. I think they need to go to smokin school for awhile..(haha)Anyway thats enough of my grumbling and I hope this has answered your question on cold smoke temps
Sincerely,
Dana A

Offline Karl913

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2004, 02:51:46 am »
I just picked up this book the smoked-foods cookbook by Lue&Ed Park and in it,it says "The trichinae can also be killed by freezing.If you choose to freeze the meat,follow the U.S.D.A.regulations. -20 degrees F.for 6-12 days,-10deg.F. for 10-20 days, or -5deg.F. for 20-30 days." this was thier advice on pork,bear and "other susceptible meats." I hope this was helpful. [:)]Karl

Offline Smalls

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2004, 09:13:22 am »
Dana,
 You may be able to get cooler cold smoking temps from the Bradley.  Some people have suggested only using the smoke generator and leaving the heating element off.  Some have also used ice in the water bowl in place of water to keep the temp low.  Leaving the vent fully open would help as well.  If you live in a colder region, cooler outside temps would keep the internal temp down too.
Bill

Offline Chez Bubba

  • Tryin' to be a good guy
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,969
Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2004, 01:19:15 am »
Dana,

I have no trouble keeping the temp below 100F, even when the ambient is 70F. All of what Smalls posted is true. Plus, if it's even semi-cloudy, keep it in the shade, especially with the black ones.

Kirk

http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
http://www.brianswish.com
Ya think if next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non", they would mind?