Author Topic: What can be truly cold smoked?  (Read 22807 times)

Offline birdboy

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2004, 07:12:38 pm »
Couldn't you Cold Smoke anything that you wanted to cook at a later date?  So if I going to smoke some product for dinner and wanted to fill the smoker with product to take advantage of the space and maximize the usage of pucks, couldn't I cold smoke everything, pull the extra out once smoked and freeze it.  And either turn up the heat for the dinner portion ...  

Now I would have smoked product, ready to cook at a moments notice?

Just what comes to my head when I think of cold smoked...kinda like dry aged.... a process used to enhance flavor etc to be cooked in the future ...  I could be way off

Offline BigSmoker

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2004, 07:55:20 pm »
Birdboy,
You can cold smoke burgers, steaks, chicken what ever.  The only thing is that if its not cured the meat stays in the danger zone of 40-140°f and poses the risk that it will have bacterial growth where cured meat retards this growth.  Now if you freeze the meat after cold smoking for a period of time I would think the bacteria would be killed and you would be O.K. or if you make sure you cook it to proper temps 160° kills most all bacteria.  The only problem is I don't want my steak at 160°f.  I have found that food I have hot smoked has more smoke flavor the next day so I think this would be true for cold smoked meat as well.  I'm no expert on this food temp stuff so I might be totally wrong[:D].

Jeff
www.bbqshopping.com
Some say BBQ is in your blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.
Some people say BBQ is in the blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2004, 01:55:04 pm »
All foods contain bacteria, it is the amount of bacteria that will determine if it is fit for human consumption. Once the bacteria level rises to a point that it contaminates the food beyound the state to be safely consumed, then it's needs to be thrown out. Freezing does not kill bacteria, it puts it in a dormant state. In addition, for some bacteria, it is the waste they produce is what's toxic. I've read articles (this pertains to non-cured meats) that stated; from the time you take the food out of the refridgerator until the time the internal meat temperature reaches 140 degrees should not be longer than two hours. Also the recommended temperature to reheat food is 165 degrees, and you must maintain that temperature for at least 15 seconds.


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Offline Oldman

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2004, 02:29:12 pm »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Freezing does not kill bacteria, it puts it in a dormant state. In addition, for some bacteria, it is the waste they produce is what's toxic. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This is right on the money~~!

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Offline BigSmoker

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2004, 04:02:49 pm »
Thanks guys I knew I was walking on thin ice there.  Probally should have kept my mouth shut.

Jeff
www.bbqshopping.com
Some say BBQ is in your blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.
Some people say BBQ is in the blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.

Offline birdboy

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2004, 06:17:46 pm »
So if you wanted to cold smoke and freeze product for later, you would have to cure... something with sodium nitrite in it...?

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2004, 08:10:28 pm »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by birdboy</i>
<br />So if you wanted to cold smoke and freeze product for later, you would have to cure... something with sodium nitrite in it...?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Technically, Yes! Or in the case of thin cuts of meat and fish a salt cure will do. I say this because if you keep the meat in the danger zone 40 - 140 degrees F. for more than two hours, it is not safe to consume. Having said that, I need to mention that smoke in itself has acids in it that helps preserve the meat by preventing the growth of surface mold and bacteria. I do not know how much longer or if this extends the amount of time you can keep the meat in the danger zone, while you are cold smoking.


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Offline BigRed

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2004, 09:16:03 pm »
Quote
<i>Originally posted by birdboy</i>
<br />Couldn't you Cold Smoke anything that you wanted to cook at a later date?  So if I going to smoke some product for dinner and wanted to fill the smoker with product to take advantage of the space and maximize the usage of pucks, couldn't I cold smoke everything, pull the extra out once smoked and freeze it.  And either turn up the heat for the dinner portion ...  

Now I would have smoked product, ready to cook at a moments notice?

Just what comes to my head when I think of cold smoked...kinda like dry aged.... a process used to enhance flavor etc to be cooked in the future ...  I could be way off

Birdboy!

In theroy I think you are right but I think it would depend on what your smoking, how long you smoke it and then how long you would keep it frozen. You would have to use a vacum sucking machine to keep any air out and then try your luck. I would not freeze beef as an example more than 3 months. I just think it has an old taste to it.

BigRED

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2004, 01:50:55 am »
I just read the section of Smoked Meats in Harold McGee’s “On Food and Cooking; The Science and Lore of the Kitchen.” He basically states that smoking preserves the surface of the meat, and kills or inhibits the growth of microbes (bacteria).  During cold smoking, smoke vapors are deposited on the surface of meat, as much as seven times faster then when you are hot smoking.

In my opinion, if you handle the meat properly prior to smoking, I would think you could cold smoke without curing first, and not have to worry about bacteria. As Big Red states it will depend on how long you cold smoke. Myself, I would limit it to four hours. I generally don’t apply smoke beyond four hours anyway.


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Offline birdboy

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2004, 09:29:10 pm »
Excellent info guys, thanks!

Offline Crazy Canuck

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2005, 02:48:10 am »
One of the main reasons I went with the BS was I would have the ability to cold smoke at teperatures below 100 degrees F. I found that above that temperature you start to dehydrate the meat. I have not smoked any fish yet but plan to in the near future so keep us informed on your findings.

Offline JJC

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2005, 05:55:19 pm »
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Karl913</i>
<br />I just picked up this book the smoked-foods cookbook by Lue&Ed Park and in it,it says "The trichinae can also be killed by freezing.If you choose to freeze the meat,follow the U.S.D.A.regulations. -20 degrees F.for 6-12 days,-10deg.F. for 10-20 days, or -5deg.F. for 20-30 days." this was thier advice on pork,bear and "other susceptible meats." I hope this was helpful. [:)]Karl
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Welcome to the Forum, Karl.  I notice you're from NJ--may I add you to the list of NorthEast BSers I'm keeping in case we want to get together sometime for some fun and feastin'?

John
Newton MA
John
Newton MA

Offline JJC

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2005, 05:59:22 pm »
Hi All,

Sorry I did not jump in on this a bit earlier.  A lot of what's been discussed here is covered in the piece on Curing and Brining in the board you can access through the Sticky at the top of each Forum.

There's also some new info here that would be a nice addition to C+B piece, and I'll try to include it in an updated version soon.  

That's what I love about this place--always something new goin' on! [8D][:D]

John
Newton MA
John
Newton MA

Offline gotbbq

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2005, 12:08:22 pm »
Fellow Smokers-

I read (on this site) that if you dry brine (salt and sugar) for more that 7-9 hrs, the salmon becomes mushy?  This doesn't seem to make sense in light of the other threads posted.  Also, many lox recipes call for the dry brine for over 24 hrs, in the fridge.  Anyone shed some light on this one?

Gotbbq[^][^][^]

Offline Harpo

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Re: What can be truly cold smoked?
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2005, 01:48:54 am »
Hello Fellow & Madam smokers, Must be politicaly corredt these days.
I just wanted to mention that last weekend I cold smoked 24 3/4 bone in chops that I had the butcher cut, they weighed 8oz each, I cold smoked them for 2hrs and the ambient temp was 40. I used apple and they where great. After smoking them on Friday I grilled 6 on the weber, and vacum packed the rest. I also had put a pork rub on them before smoking. Well I just heated up two that were left from grilling and they were just as tender and had a great smokey taste.
 I di not marinade these before smoking and the BS did not go above 75f, I only mention this after doing it because of the things I have read here about curing, marinating and a salt cure. I jsut wanted to pass this info on, Looking forward to more of your ideas all have been great. Jaeger I will be doing that jerky you had mentioned to me on Monday meat is now thawing and I will mix it Saturday and let sit one day will let you know and send pics. Thanks to all for all your ideas.
Harpo[;)]