Author Topic: Gun Powder Seasoning  (Read 66502 times)

Offline jiggerjams

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2011, 08:49:06 AM »
Great experiments guys. Thanks for sharing. Following this thread is capturing.
Very very interesting. It will be great to hear the feedback Chris is able to give on the Eric product taste test.

Offline BuyLowSellHigh

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2011, 01:40:19 PM »
That is some great work Eric.

If the "charred seasoning" can be figured out, I will

talk to JH about the chances of him ordering some.

He may be interested in some himself.

Wish I had known you didn't have some, would have

brought you a sample of both kinds.

It (GP) looks like pic #2.

I think it's a step in the right direction.  A little time and a few more experiments and I think we can come up with a good clone.

If JH can source us some "grill flavor", just the basic stuff, a pound would go a long way.  He has so many blends he may already be using it in something.  Of course he might also call us fools and admonish us to get back to the real grill.

The one other retail seasoning I know it is used in the Weber Gourmet Burger Seasoning, which is made by Tone's.
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Offline BuyLowSellHigh

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2011, 01:56:34 PM »
Eric Translate this into English for Me, would you Please!!!

Aroma components of an oil-based grill flavoring by direct thermal desorption-gas chromatography-olfactometry and sample dilution analysis.

Webb TE, Cadwallader KR.

Department of Food Science and Technology, Mississippi Agricultural Experiment Station, Mississippi State University, USA.
Abstract

Grill flavorings are a convenient way for food processors to impart grill-like flavor to meat products that have not been grilled. In this study a commercially available oil-based processed grill flavoring was analyzed by direct thermal desorption (DTD)-gas chromatography-olfactometry (GCO) and DTD-GC-mass spectrometry (MS). Sample mass dilution analysis-GCO was used to indicate which compounds had the greatest impact on the overall aroma of the sample. Major aroma contributors included 1-octen-3-one, 2-methoxyphenol, and (E)-2-nonenal. Minor contributors were (E)-2-decenal and 2,4-decadienal. Other major contributors, characterized as having grill aroma notes, were unidentified. Excluding the possibility of artifact formation from the thermal degradation of fatty acid hydroperoxides, DTD functioned well as a GCO technique, but poorly as a qualitative GC-MS technique.

PMID: 11548153 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


That's kind of cool stuff.  What they are doing is using gas chromatography (GC) to separate the various compounds (of probably a hundred or more) in a commercial grill flavor sample.  The GC separation stream is then being analyzed by two separate methods: (1.) a human sniffing port (olfactometry ) where a human can sniff the aromas of each component as it elutes and comment on their sensation, and (2.) by mass spectrometry which enables the determination of what the individual component in the grill flavor mixture actually is.  Based on those analyses and some progressive dilution experiments they are able to determine which specific compounds in the grill flavor are primarily responsible for the aroma of the flavor.  The caveat is this addresses the aroma side, not the flavor or taste side directly.
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Offline Tenpoint5

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2011, 02:46:21 PM »
See I do some investigative things when I am sitting here on the computer doing nothing
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Offline TestRocket

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2011, 02:59:59 PM »
The snow melted and I went out to get a hair cut and on the way is a Star Market. So LumpyDVC don’t break out the chemistry set just yet. Your rub will be in the mail soon! 

You guys are amazing!  ;D

Offline BuyLowSellHigh

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2011, 04:21:43 PM »
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Offline Tenpoint5

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2011, 04:50:37 PM »
See I do some investigative things when I am sitting here on the computer doing nothing

That ain't doing nothing!

Since you're in an investigative mood, try these

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=hkUuAAAAEBAJ&dq=4571342

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=lQo0AAAAEBAJ&dq=4820538

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=YFcKAAAAEBAJ&dq=6495184

Ahhh That would be Science stuff and that is your world. They speak English in mine!! The most I have to pay is $5 for words in my world you can keep them 50 dollar words that it takes ten minute to pronounce.
Bacon is the Crack Cocaine of the Food World.

Be careful about calling yourself and EXPERT! An ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure!


Offline Tenpoint5

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2011, 04:57:37 PM »
The clone on a ribeye is good. It aint really good just good. If I had more steak on my plate it might have been really good. The steak I had was gone before I could get a good and proper taste analysis. However that just means I will have to try it again. I think I will add more of the Accent though to get more of a Pop in the flavor. The Clone is good like it is but I want to tweak it some more and add to the flavor profile. For me this is still a work in progress.

If any of you that have GP would be kind enough to try the clone and give some feedback I would appreciate it. Keep in mind I want to make this clone out of things I think most everyone has in their cupboard.
Bacon is the Crack Cocaine of the Food World.

Be careful about calling yourself and EXPERT! An ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure!


Offline BuyLowSellHigh

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2011, 06:54:27 PM »
Got a package this week from the Distinguished Gentleman from Alabama, GusRobin



Very generous packs of both the Gunpowder Seasoning and Star Market Meat Rub (aka Red Gunpowder).  Many thanks, Gus!

It didn't take me long to tear into the GP to see if I was close.  I think I was on the right track, but missed the mark by a good bit.  At about the same time that I was getting my first taste of real GP, Chris (Tenpoint5) was sending me pics and notes on his testing.  After both the two way tasting and comparing notes I planned version 2.  Here we go.

The things I need to change were get more grill flavor, back off the MSG  a tad, back off the onion, garlic and black pepper, and eliminate the ground Jalapeno powder.  It would be pretty simple, except for the grill flavor, which I can't source, so I improvised.

To get more grill flavor I modified my "grilled salt" by using Morton Canning & Pickling salt (finer grain, more surface area), changing the veg oil to pure soybean oil and doubling the amount of oil, and increasing the temp to 600 - 650 °F with indirect heat on my gas grill and grilling for 35 min's.  The canola component in the first version gives a slightly acrid note in the grilled salt that I wanted to avoid.  If ever you decide to try this, do it outside.  Just trust me on that one.  The new salt  formulation is as follows:

300 g pure salt
18 g soybean oil (Crisco Pure Vegatable oil)

Using a KA mixer I mixed the oil with the salt for ~ 5 min on speed 2, spread it in a SS roasting pan, put it in a preheated 650 °F gas grill.  The salt was well mixed every 10 min's, grilled for a total of 35 min's, then the pan was removed from the heat, covered tightly with aluminum foil and allowed to cool for ~ 1 hr.  This gives a finished grilled salt with at least 2.0% weight gain from charred veg oil.

After a bunch of back and forth tasting, sniffing, and adjusting, here is the final formulation for GP clone version 2:

Grilled salt (v2)  300 grams
MSG (Accent)     50 grams
Onion, granulated  15 grams
Garlic, granulated  15 grams
Black pepper, ground  15 grams
Savory, ground  6 grams
Smoke Flavor (Leggs 127)  6 grams

Soybean oil  3.2 grams

Combine everything except the soybean oil in a KA stand mixer fitted with the paddle and mix on speed 1 for 2 min's, then on speed 2 for 5 mins.  Add the vegetable oil in droplets across the top and then continued mixing on speed 2 for another 5 min's.  Transfer finished blend to an airtight container.

Flavor on this version is very close, but to me still lacks in the grill flavor notes, which isn't surprising given that I am improvising for grill flavor that I cannot buy.

Visually the clone is noticeably coarser than the original, even with the salt granules.  I could run the clone through a blade grinder in small batches, but I doubt it would change much of anything other than the appearance, which I don't believe is all that critical.

Here is a comparson of the original from GR (left) with the new clone (right).



Samples will go out to the sensory evaluation panel tomorrow (GusRobin, Tenpoint5, and CRG) and hopefully there will be some feeback next week.

Honestly, I think this is probably about as close as someone at home can come up with.  A major key to GP's flavor is the grill flavor, and that just isn't available (yet) in the retail market.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 07:24:30 PM by BuyLowSellHigh »
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Offline jiggerjams

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2011, 08:06:09 PM »
Sounds like you are on point to me. Way to go!!

Offline Shasta bob

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2011, 08:41:50 PM »
Just where does a person have to go to get some of this Gunpowder seasoning when you live on the west coast? Can it be ordered?
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Offline classicrockgriller

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2011, 08:52:34 PM »
www.sureshotsids.com

the red is sure shot sids chipotle

Offline BuyLowSellHigh

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2011, 03:30:47 AM »
The red stuff I got from GusRobin is labeled "Star Meat Rub"

Ingredients:  Salt, Paprika, MSG, Onion & Garlic, Smoke Flavor, Spice Extractives.

The flavor is somewhat like GP minus the grill flavor notes plus some paprika.

I was going to work on this today, but my sick kid has presented me with a nasty cold/infaction that has flared up this morning so I don't trust my taste/smell apparatus.  This will need to wait a week or so.

For both GP and the Star Meat Rub the workshorse components are salt and MSG.  If you just used them in ~ 5-6:1 ratio by weight you would have 90+% of what either is bringing to the flavor game.  When you use them in grill cooking most of the other stuff will be lost.
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Offline CraigJS

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2011, 06:49:44 PM »
Could the flavor that you are looking for be Alderwood smoked sea salt? Smokey flavored, google "Salish" smoked sea salt.. Just a thought.

Offline watchdog56

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Re: Gun Powder Seasoning
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2011, 11:07:28 AM »
Your ingredient "smoke flavor" is that liquid smoke?