Bookmarks 2 Bookmarks

Author Topic: Brisket moisture  (Read 6010 times)

Offline Pachanga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2014, 02:59:26 am »
Burnt ends mesmerize me. 

Try this.

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?800-Brisket-Burnt-Ends&s=4055028a47997a636d62dee30d8a4a4d

(Read with a big thanks to Olds and Habs for all their efforts on the recipe site.)

Good luck and slow smoking,

Pachanga

Offline BBNRules

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 11:36:02 am »
I wish I could read that link!  My IP address was banned (proxy server).   I emailed and supposedly got off the "list", but the site still says my IP address is still banned.  I have a bit of an issue.  I can't find choice brisket in Atlanta.  I don't have a Costco or Sams card and I won't get one either.  Funny enough, I found Prime briskets for $4.99 a lb.  Thought my first time I should go cheaper but I may not be able to. 

Offline Pachanga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 11:44:37 am »
I wish I could read that link!  My IP address was banned (proxy server).   I emailed and supposedly got off the "list", but the site still says my IP address is still banned.  I have a bit of an issue.  I can't find choice brisket in Atlanta.  I don't have a Costco or Sams card and I won't get one either.  Funny enough, I found Prime briskets for $4.99 a lb.  Thought my first time I should go cheaper but I may not be able to.

Here is the original post regarding Burnt Ends.  It should open.

http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=14065.msg166874#msg166874

Pachanga

Offline BBNRules

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2014, 05:23:40 am »
I want to make sure I understood your directions.  You cooked the whole brisket until it was completely done (ie. the point reached 203) and then you cut the pieces and added them back into the smoker for 5 more hours? 

Offline Pachanga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2014, 01:09:15 pm »
I want to make sure I understood your directions.  You cooked the whole brisket until it was completely done (ie. the point reached 203) and then you cut the pieces and added them back into the smoker for 5 more hours?

I do not think I mentioned 203 degrees.  My briskets are generally done at 185 to 195 middle of the flat.  I put the newly slathered chunks back in until a nice dark bark develops; 5 hours at low and slow sounds about right but that could vary 2 hours either way; depends on the multitude of variables  - ambient temp, wind, chamber temp, load, door openings, mopping hot or cold, water refill, shelf height, etc.

It takes a while for the Maillard reaction to take place in moist, low temps.

Pachanga. 


Offline BBNRules

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2014, 05:07:50 pm »
"I do not think I mentioned 203 degrees.  My briskets are generally done at 185 to 195 middle of the flat.  I put the newly slathered chunks back in until a nice dark bark develops; 5 hours at low and slow sounds about right but that could vary 2 hours either way; depends on the multitude of variables  - ambient temp, wind, chamber temp, load, door openings, mopping hot or cold, water refill, shelf height, etc.
It takes a while for the Maillard reaction to take place in moist, low temps."
Pachanga. 






You're right, I have read until I'm overloaded with information.  KyNola has been great in helping me out and you too.  I read some competition article where a lot of people were winning brisket competitions injecting with beef broth and the magic temp was 203. I have no desire to inject and I really don't want to use a Texas Crutch either.  The one confusion I had with your description above was after the flat is done, do you let the point get up to temp 195 to 205 and THEN put in back in for another 4 to 5 for the burnt ends.  You mentioned taking the flat out at 185-195.  Do you cut the point up right then and immediately put the burnt ends in or do you finish it to 200+ and then go for more time.  Starting tomorrow AM, thanks.


Offline KyNola

  • Moderation Team
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,518
  • KCBS CBJ
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2014, 07:28:04 pm »
I would recommend you follow Pachanga's tutorial. He knows of which he speaks.

Offline Pachanga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 777
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2014, 01:54:47 am »
I would recommend you follow Pachanga's tutorial. He knows of which he speaks.

Thanks Kynola.  I am just one of many on this board.  I have picked up many a useful pointer and technique from you and others on this board.  I have received much, much more from this forum than I have given in meager contributions.

The one confusion I had with your description above was after the flat is done, do you let the point get up to temp 195 to 205 and THEN put in back in for another 4 to 5 for the burnt ends.  You mentioned taking the flat out at 185-195.  Do you cut the point up right then and immediately put the burnt ends in or do you finish it to 200+ and then go for more time.  Starting tomorrow AM, thanks.

I smoke packer briskets whole.  The point and flat never are separated during the smoke.  I generally pull my briskets between 185 and 195 in the middle of the flat.  The final test for me is fork tender at the tip of the flat.  (see below for an old post - Torture and Interrogation of a Brisket).  I then pull the brisket, rest it using the foil, towel, cooler method and then serve the little dude up.  Since most people like their sliced brisket off the flat with maybe a little burnt end off the point, the point gets picked over pretty good.  I take whatever is left and either make burnt ends or throw it in the food processor for a few pulses to make chopped brisket sandwiches. 

If I want burnt ends from the get go, I separate the point and flat after smoking the whole to fork tender, FTC the flat, cut the point into chunks, slather and throw them back into the smoker using the directions of the Burnt Ends post.  I don't really monitor the IT, I am just looking for a good bark, but it is better to keep the temp lower than higher.  When the meat reaches the boiling point, bad things happen.  Keep in mind this is the fatty end.  The fat will continue to melt, leaving a more meaty product while keeping the temperature in check.

Good luck and slow smoking,
Pachanga  (see below)

Torturing  and Interrogation of a Brisket

A brisket is ready when it is ready. 

So, what language does a brisket speak to tell you it is ready?  Does it speak through a thermometer reading?  No, but a thermometer will give you some clues as to what it is thinking and can be relied upon to get close to optimum temperature.  How about color?  Again, color is a clue but not an answer.  Should time be your guide?   There are many variables to time.  Size and shape of the meat, internal temperature (IT) of the meat when started, temperature of the Bradley, total meat load if more than one piece of meat, water source, initial temperature of Bradley along with components such as water, bricks or other meat, vent opening, rack location, number of door openings and duration, temperature of water refills, ambient temperature, and of course oven temperature setting and adjustments during the smoke. These are just a few variables off the top of my feeble brain; there are many more.  Time can vary greatly and is most unreliable.

While the brisket will give you clues as to its condition, it remains silent.  A brisket is ready when the collagen and connective tissues dissolve, liquefy and loosen their grip, allowing the individual strands of meat fiber to be lubricated and easily separated.  This starts to take place as low as 140 degrees F, really gets active around 160 to 170 (as Tubbs states, this is when a stall is likely to occur), and finally gives up the ghost between 185 and 200 IT in the middle of the flat.  The IT is a great clue but it is not definitive.  There can be as much as a 15 degree window between briskets.

Again, a brisket is ready when it is ready.  But how do we know when that is?  The answer is through interrogation and torture.  This is the only way to discern the perfect temperature to break down each brisket's unique connective tissue and collagen makeup and content.

We must be diligent and proactive to get the information we need from the brisket.  We must interrogate the brisket.  At 185 IT in the middle of the flat, it is time to torture the brisket into talking.  Slide a meat fork with two tines into the skinny end of the flat parallel to the meat fibers.  Twist the fork.  If the fork twists easily and the meat breaks away with the fibers easily separated, the brisket has confessed that it is ready.  If the fibers stay together and the fork doesn't easily twist, give the brisket 5 more degrees to think about it and try again at 190.  Continue every five degrees until the brisket spills it guts by breaking apart.  At this point you can be sure the brisket is giving accurate information by inserting a temperature probe into the flat (about 1/3 of the total brisket length form the skinny end) starting from the edge and poking it deep into the middle.  It should slide in like going into butter, with very little resistance.  You have gotten all the information you need.  The interrogation is over.  Pull the brisket and let it rest.

At this point, I generally cut a little burnt end off of the deckle; a diabolical smile on my lips, as I enjoy the first taste of my labors.  It is time to hoist a cold one, toast the worthy opponent and exclaim "It just don't get any better than this".  Yes, this is the way life ought-ta be.

Some final points to ponder:

You have tested the thin tip of the flat for fork tender.  Since it is the thinnest part of the brisket, this is the first part of the flat to reach that brisket's temperature where its unique combination and makeup of collagen and connective tissue has dissolved and released its grip.   During the rest period, hangover temperature will continue to rise and cook the thicker part of the flat, thus achieving the exact same fork tender meat in the middle that you tested in the thin tip.  The thick flat will finish without overcooking because you judged the rest time (using the thin end) just as the middle was beginning to enter its final optimum phase.  The probe slipped in easily but the final loosening of the fibers was not over.  This hangover heat rise will bring the thick part of the flat up to the perfect finishing temperature which was confessed by the brisket during interrogation and torture.  Even though not absolutely necessary, the Foil, Towel, Cooler (FTC) method will equalize this optimum temperature throughout the brisket and prolong this temperature for a more forgiving product.

Most briskets will confess and give it up between 190 and 195 in the middle 1/3 of the flat.   If your oven temperature is at 180 to 190, the brisket will never give up because optimum confession temperature is never reached.  The Bradley should be between 205 and 225 according to most experienced Bradley users on this board.  This up to 40 degree temperature difference from your stated temperature will cause a cumulative time collection of several hours to add to your overall smoke time.

There is a caveat to the above.  The information is predicated on cooking low and slow, adequate moisture the entire cooking time which includes a full water pan and may include mop and slather.  It also includes protection from direct high heat.  Without a moist environment, the fibers can dry out, tighten and never release any information (even under the most intense interrogation) which will produce a dry tough brisket.  Indications that your brisket is ok and everything is going according to plan is a little plump spring (like pushing on a full belly) when pushed on with tongs or some bend and limberness when lifted in the middle or ends.  If the brisket starts to handle like a stiff board, be much afraid. 

 Good luck and slow smoking,

Pachanga

NePaSmoKer

  • Guest
Re: Brisket moisture
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2014, 09:24:20 am »
I would recommend you follow Pachanga's tutorial. He knows of which he speaks.

Yeah cuz Larry you aint never done briskets before have ya?