Wiring Grainger Finned heater to auber pid W/new bradley smoke generator

[The Deer Guy]

Greetings, I am building a new project and was wondering if anyone has any input. I have the Auberins pid controller for a DBS,

I am building a large smoker and want to wire in the new heat strip as I have made the conversion on my dbs and love the results.

 So here are my questions... I want to run the generator and heater through my pid... (I have the high temp wire mind you)

 So do I ?

            1. pirate an old computer and steal the female outlet from the power supply so I may run the high temp wire to the outlet and

                then I can tie them together crudely with wire nuts?

            2. Do I strip a male cable that runs from the heater port on the pid tie those wires to the high temp wire (where do I ground or

                 do I not need to here)

            3.another scenario that is so obviously staring me right in the face that I am blinded by the simplicity of it all ?

             I appreciate any info ,Thanks for reading this---Jason

[Mr Walleye]

Hi Deer Guy and welcome to the forum. I'm not really sure why this got moved from the Smoke Generator and Adapter Forum which is where all the other home built smokers are using the Bradley Generator for smoke production are located.

Certainly you could wire the element to a computer power supply style plug but it would help if you described a little more detail on the project. Having the size of the smoker, what size, voltage and number of elements, and what model of PID you're going to be using would definitely be helpful and would dictate how to wire everything.

Mike

[KyNola]

My apologies for the move.  It was an error on my part.  

[The Deer Guy]

Thanks for the reply, the cabinet that I am using is an old

Kitchen warming box ( cambryo) to those with culinary backgrounds.

The dimensions are 4'x2'and is 4'tall it's stainless and insulated so with

Some mods it should work well. Next I will be using the Vulcan strip heater

It requires 1200w and is approx 16" long,I am also going to use a fan mod as

I have read on the forum that I should blow air over said element to disperse heat and

Increase over all temp distribution , I'm just not sure of the route I'm going with it yet and

Welcome all suggestions. I have the Auberins dual probe for the Bradley digital smoker

Wps1203cph

[The Deer Guy]

Is there any way we can move this back to the Bradley topic?

[Mr Walleye]

Hi Jason

It looks like it will be a great project and a really nice smoker once you get it completed.

What will you be smoking with it once completed? More the question is what temperatures do you want to be able to maintain with it?

Sorry for all the questions but it is a pretty good sized cabinet and I wonder if one 1200 watt element will be sufficient. You may want to jury-rig a 1200 watt element and just close the door on the cord to see if it is going to reach the temperatures you are hoping for.

At any rate you could wire the element with your high temp hookup wire and pass it through the wall to an electrical box on the outside and tie it in to an electrical cord with a male plug on it to plug into the output on your PID.

I think it would be a good idea to run a circulation fan over the finned heater. It will not only help regulate the temps in the cabinet but it will also prevent premature failure of the element from over heating.

Another option would be to build your own control panel with Auber parts. It's really pretty simple and you wouldn't be limited to the size or voltage of the elements.

Did you want to keep it at 110 volts or do you have 220v available?

Mike

[The Deer Guy]

 Well, My plan is to commercially smoke venison sausages , hot dogs , peperoni for my meat shop.

I also wondered if one element was enough, I rarely need to achieve temps over 200 ,but there will be a large volume of meat in there

at any given time .i do have 220 available but I was trying to use the pid that I have already, I like all the features that the dual

probe offers , I don't have a lot of experience building pid controllers would it be pretty str8  forward?

[Mr Walleye]

Jason

It's not really that difficult especially if you have a little electrical basics. The one build I did started life with two 1100 watt 110v elements running on two separate circuits because it would overload one circuit. I eventually changed it over to 3500 watts at 220v. The main purpose for this cabinet is sausage as well.

Here's a couple of links to a couple of builds I did a few years ago. There are some wiring diagrams I made as well. You might get some ideas from them.

This is a link to the build start to finish that started with the dual 110v elements along with the conversion to 220v.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=7616.0

This is a link to another one I built for a friend.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=16075.0

Also, for ideas do some surfing through the Smoke Generator and Adapter Forum. Over the years there have been some nice builds and you may pick up a few ideas.

Mike

[Mr Walleye]

KyNola

Thanks for moving this back. I think this is where it belongs.

Mike

[The Deer Guy]

Wow Mike!

I spent the evening reading about your build, awesome. Everything you have done is clean ,practical and professional.

I am going to step back re-evaluate  my plans and punt..lol . I am deff going the 220 route and I will be picking your

brain in the days to come about your control panel and wiring help. I need to order some new parts return some and plan

on spending some time on the web. Did you get most of your  panel components from auberins? how about the panel itself?

did u use 10g wire? also it seems you may have eliminated your fan? It is really Great that you have shared so much and saved

countless people valuable time in learning what works. Thank you again----Jason

[Mr Walleye]

Thanks Jason

I think that is the right approach for sure. I would think the plan through fairly thoroughly first. It will probably save time and money over the build.

I did use 10g wire for both high temp and the regular hookup wire. Pretty much all the parts came from Auber. They even have a great looking panel that works well although at the time when I built these they didn't and I made my own. The smoker in the first link does in fact still have the circulation fan in it. The smoker in the second link we thought we would try not using one to start with and add one afterwards if we felt the need. The guy who I built it for was happy with it so we never added one. My preference would be to have air circulation inside. In both these setups I'm running 2 separate PIDs. The second PID's job is simply to monitor the cabinet temperature and shut the contactor down if it exceeds a set level. It acts as a high limit to provide some protection if there is a failure in the main PID, SSR or sensor which can cause it to run wide open. I still use the 3500 watt 220v oven elements simply because they are reasonably priced and easy to get. You could use many different elements as well but what ever you choose you do want to figure out how you will manage any dripping grease and try to design it in a fashion that's easy to clean. I line everything in the bottom with tin foil which makes cleanup a breeze.

I have seen one other smoker built using the same cabinet you have but I can't seem to find it. If I come across it I'll post it here. Also, if I get a chance I will have a look at Aubers site and post some links of the various parts you could use.

Mike

[Mr Walleye]

Hi Jason

If you were to build you own controller the first choice you would decide on is if you want to have a programmable PID or not. Some people prefer the non-programmable ones simply because they don't want the learning curve of the programming side of it and the fact they will always be around to make any changes in temperature they may want. At any rate, here's a list of goodies from Auber...

Programmable PID
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4

Non-Programmable PID
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3

Thermocouple
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=101

SSR
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30




If you were going to setup the additional controller for the safety of having a high limit on the smoker you would need...

Additional PID for High Limit
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

Additional Thermocouple
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=101

Contactor
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_31&products_id=130


Here is a cabinet that they have available as well. You can order it with the cut outs already done for the controllers as well as you can order it with the external heat sink for the 40 amp SSR. The only additional holes you would have to look after on the cabinet would be for switches and power wires.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34&products_id=384

You would also need a couple of switches, one for turning on power to the 2nd PID that controls the contactor, and one for a circulation fan if you were going that route.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=360

Other than that you will need Some form of fuse holder where the power comes in. The type of holder will be dependant on if it will be 110v or 220v. You will also need various wire and connectors.


Mike

[The Deer Guy]

Hey there Mike,

I have been busy in the Meat shop and now i'm ready to build my control box, however I have a few more questions.

You recommended the 120v contactor but I am wiring this for 220v I noticed you mentioned to someone else that this was correct im just

confirming and inquiring why. if I am using a 40a contactor should I also be using a 40a in line fuse or is that  just the max load that the

controller should never see? is the button to turn on the high limit controller or were you using this for your fan? What oven elements would

recommend for this size cabinet. How did u get to be such an awesome Smoker Guru? and did u wire a male outlet on the back for the smoke

generator? Thankyou again for all of your help

[Mr Walleye]

Hi Jason

You recommended the 120v contactor but I am wiring this for 220v I noticed you mentioned to someone else that this was correct im just confirming and inquiring why.

The Contactor can switch up to 40 amps and up to 600 volts. The coil in the contactor runs on 120 volts. The coil receives a signal from the PID (120v) and is what allows the power to pass through the contactor or not. The way I set it up was running 1 leg of the 240v which is 120v to run certain things such as the PIDs, blower, and the coil for the contactor. This is why you supply a 4 wire 240v plug for the smoker. The 4th wire is a neutral so you can breakdown each leg of the 240v to 120v to run certain things.

if I am using a 40a contactor should I also be using a 40a in line fuse or is that  just the max load that the
controller should never see?

No. The 40 amp rating on the contactor is the maximum rating it is capable of switching. To calculate the size of fuse you want you want to calculate the maximum load and size the fuses so the load represents under 80% of the fuse capacity.

is the button to turn on the high limit controller or were you using this for your fan?

Yes. To power up the system you turn the toggle switch on which turns on the high limit PID. To activate the rest of the system you push and hold the Set Button on the high limit PID which engages the contactor and the rest of the smoker comes to life including the blower.

What oven elements would recommend for this size cabinet.

My preference is oven elements simply because they are real easy to find and reasonably priced. The biggest thing you want to take into account is grease management so you limit the risk of having a grease fire in the smoker.

How did u get to be such an awesome Smoker Guru?

  Thanks for the compliment but there are plenty of true smoking guru's around the forum here. I'm simply a hands on type of guy and really like to tinker with things... You know... make a better mouse trap type of thing. 

and did u wire a male outlet on the back for the smoke generator?

I used the regular cord for the smoke generator. I wired a regular outlet on the outside of the smoker to plug the generator into. The outlet was powered by 1 leg (120) of the 240v. Again, this is why you supply a 4 wire 240v plug for the smoker. The 4th wire is a neutral so you can breakdown each leg of the 240v to 120v to run certain things.

Mike

[dave01]

Hi all, I may have missed something here but am wondering why you would build a 220v PID when the one you have will operate up to a 2000 watt heater unless your going larger than that

Dave