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Author Topic: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod  (Read 16533 times)

Offline Orion

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2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« on: November 01, 2015, 07:55:41 pm »
Well, three mods down, two to go. Got my second element installed using a new and simple means of attaching it... 3 clamps, 3 standoffs and a little hardware.









The clamp on each end of 2nd element is a loose fit to allow expansion of ceramics and the inner clamp is snug to secure element.

Cabinet went from 65' F to 250'f in 10 minutes.
It's going to take a lifetime to smoke all this.

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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2015, 07:59:49 pm »
I also modified the puck burner location and feeder chute. Cut feeder chute to prevent puck hanging up on it and lowered the burner plate by 3/16ths " to ensure positive puck drop and isolate chute from the heat.





This will eliminate troubles in this area.
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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 08:03:06 pm »
And thirdly, I installed a motor and fan to ensure better heat dispersion and moisture removal.



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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2015, 08:06:42 pm »
Next I will be adding an interior light and getting an Auber PID to control the temps and ramping times for sausage. In buying a PDI they offer three choices of cabinet temp probes... clip on, hang from vent or mounted to wall. What type are you guys using and why?
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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2015, 08:08:22 pm »
The clamping method of mounting the second element also enables you to space the two elements out generously for better heat distribution.
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Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2015, 04:44:01 am »
Looks good Orion!

For the temp probe I would go with the clip on. The wall mount is too restrictive and my opinion is dropping them through the vent gets in the way when rotating racks. I usually simply clip the probe so it is reading the temps before the air is influenced by the meat, usually lower than the meat. If you use the wall mount one and have a load of meat below it, the meat will influence the temp readings your getting.

Mike

Click On The Smoker For Our Time Tested And Proven Recipes


Offline sledhead01

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2015, 07:53:50 am »
Orion,
Great Job.  The pics are to shelf as well.
A few questions for you, is your smoker a 4 rack or 6?  Where did you get the fan from and is it a oven fan?  How high is it mounted in the cabinet, what rack# is it behind from the bottom?
I am looking at doing the same thing.

Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2015, 01:01:30 pm »
sledhead01,

Its a BDS 4 rack. Fan came from an oven/range assy. It is a convection oven fan and has a burner element and shroud that surrounds the fan on the oven side. I removed the element and shroud and just used the fan assy. The fan has two impellors, one outside for cooling the little motor and a larger one i9nside the smoker for distributing air and heat.

The CL of the fan is on plane with the second rack from the bottom. This puts the impellor slighter lower than half way above the elements. Seemed like the logical location as its intent is to move air up.

Later on, when I build a large smoker I will put the convection element and shroud to good use.
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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2015, 01:10:30 pm »
The clamps I used are: two 3/4" with the rubber sleeves removed. These I positioned and centered over the ceramic end caps on the 2nd element to more or less locate it correctly. These two are a loose fit to allow the ceramic ends to expand with heat and not crack.

The 3rd clamp is 3/8" and it is a snug fit on the element itself to ensure it does not shift. The attach hardware and standoffs are all 3/16" .
You should put an second fusible link inline with the second element to ensure it's current is disrupted in the event of an overheat or fire.
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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2015, 01:54:01 pm »
Looks good Orion!

For the temp probe I would go with the clip on. The wall mount is too restrictive and my opinion is dropping them through the vent gets in the way when rotating racks. I usually simply clip the probe so it is reading the temps before the air is influenced by the meat, usually lower than the meat. If you use the wall mount one and have a load of meat below it, the meat will influence the temp readings your getting.

Mike

Thanks Mike, that all makes perfect sense.

Only problem now is trying to purchase the Auber PID. With the Canadian dollar so low and expensive shipping costs out of the USA and duty I'd be lucky to get into one for less than $280 Canadian. Ouch!

I was wondering If a simpler temp probe for in the sausage and watching it closely would work. Dry and smoke at less than 150 and then dial it up and watch closely...when IT reaches 152 pull it? Would this be a workable plan?

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Offline ghosttown

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2015, 03:23:13 pm »
Looks good, do you find making the modification to the puck burner necessary? I had a look at mine and the whole puck seems to burn just fine. Haven't had a good look but do you need to do both? Drop the plate burner and cut out the feeder? I wanted to add an internal light also, what have you decided on? I may install it in the enclosure that I made for it.

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« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 03:25:37 pm by ghosttown »

Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2015, 05:20:02 pm »
Hi GT,

In my instance, the feed chute had to be cut. It was necessary to enable the pucks to come clear of the chute. Before I notched the chute, the puck to be burnt would be left laying on the chute by about 3/16ths". As a result the pucks would begin to burn on one end before the other and in 20 minutes the burn was not complete. As the pucks shuffle along every 20 minutes they are in contact with each other, (one pushes another). The burning pucks trailing edge was always in contact with the next puck in line to burn. The late ignition of the burning pucks trailing edge, (laying on chute) was enough to ignite the next puck before it's time so when the second puck was pushed onto the burner it was already burning on its now leading edge. So the problem just escalates as you burn more pucks. The leading edges ignite faster and faster and burns beyond the designed amount and the trailing edges continue to ignite too soon.

There may be other ways to alter or adjust the feed mechanism to ensure the puck is pushed completely on to the burner however I did not want to mess with the travel arm adjustment or micro switch to find out. Cutting out the feed chute seemed simpler and logical.

As far as lowering the burn plate, that only made sense to me. This way the pucks drop down and some distance, (3/16") is put between the chute and burner. Although the pucks are still in contact to maintain the proper push  the area of contact is less as the burning puck sits lower. This means the puck has to be well into its burn before it can begin to ignite the puck adjacent to it. This way pucks are not burning before their time. It's only two little screws that retain the burner and you have to undo them to notch the chute so why not change them out with slightly longer and place a few washers between the chute and burner while you are in there.

I would expect a puck to burn reasonably evenly and to the correct degree within its 20 minute slot. This was definitely not the case in my machine. You can easily hook all your cords up with the smoke generator sitting beside the cabinet and use the puck advance button to cycle them through to see for yourself how your unit is operating. I don't think they all do what mine was doing but with  several variables (including assembly tolerances) affecting puck travel and final placement some are experiences the same results as I was. 
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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2015, 05:37:20 pm »
I have cycled the pucks since the chute mod and it places them off the chute entirely but 3/16" of puck trailing edge still is not on the burner. I will be moving the burner towards the chute by that amount by simply drilling two new burner mount holes. The burner sits below the chute now and with two new holes and two notches in the chute it will be clear to move closer to the chute.

It is inherent in the design of having one puck push another (contact) that the 2nd puck will be lit before it's time. This is the main reason the feed chutes get fouled with burnt wood and need to be scraped frequently. My intention is to get a more even and complete burn of each puck and keep the chute cleaner. If nothings burning on it, it won't get fouled.

I have a high temp light assy from an oven (120 VAC) and that will be the final mod I do. It has a nice clear glass lens and I will probably mount it on the back wall in the upper right corner. Both the fan and the light will be run on a separate circuit from the SG and cabinet heater to ensure excessive watts are not run through the BDS.   
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Offline ghosttown

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2015, 04:00:58 pm »
I had a look at mine and ran through the cycle and it seems most of the time the puck is on the burner, however the mod you did may help it to burn evenly. What did you use to cut out the chute? Let me know how drilling the new wholes goes I may do the same so the pucks are pushed more on the burner.



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Offline Orion

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Re: 2nd Element, Fan and Burner Mod
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2015, 04:28:30 pm »
GT,

Your pictures perfectly illustrate the point I was trying to convey. You can see how the leading puck is sitting at an angle with less than stellar contact on the burner. Also the puck to puck contact is what leads to pre-ignition of the trailing puck. If you clean your burner until just the black burning area is left you will see that the outline on the burner does not mirror a puck.

I marked the chute with a felt pen and then ground it out with a die grinder and rotary file. It is stainless steel so you need a good sharp rotary file. Be careful when handling the chute as the two little rails are minimally spot welded on and come free if too much force is applied to them. One of mine came off and I riveted back on, (see pics I previous post for rivets).

I think this small issue varies from unit to unit due to assembly tolerances. Some are better than others. Mine was not good in terms of puck placement.
It's going to take a lifetime to smoke all this.

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