Author Topic: How to get more smoke flavor.  (Read 18252 times)

robs

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2006, 12:23:29 pm »
Mesquite my chum, Mesquite.

I think I'll try this next. Might be kind of hard to get that ol "hickory smoked" flavor though...

Mabye using a mixture of hickory and mesquite would work.

Out of curiosity, what would happen if the pucks were soaked in water for a few minutes? I'm not saying this would be a good idea, I'm just wondering what would happen.

Offline MallardWacker

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2006, 12:31:21 pm »
robs...

Man they will fall apart in a heart beat....Before you go off and buy some of that them there Mesquite, beware and for warned this not your Mothers Mesquite.  This stuff is freek'n strong.  If I was to use it again, and that may be a long time, I would use half as much as you normally use, tho I have never done it, mixing a puck or two of Mesquite with Hickory might be what you are looking for.  Go easy with that stuff.

SmokeOn,

Mike
Perryville, Arkansas

It's not how much you smoke but how many friends you make while doing it...

robs

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2006, 05:50:44 pm »
robs...

Man they will fall apart in a heart beat....Before you go off and buy some of that them there Mesquite, beware and for warned this not your Mothers Mesquite.  This stuff is freek'n strong.  If I was to use it again, and that may be a long time, I would use half as much as you normally use, tho I have never done it, mixing a puck or two of Mesquite with Hickory might be what you are looking for.  Go easy with that stuff.

Thanks for the warning regarding the soak. I'm just throwing ideas out there. I will pick up some mesquite and try a puck or two mixed with the hickory.

Thanks!
rob

Offline kiyotei

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2006, 07:21:30 pm »
Rob, looking at your last comments about smoking the meat for 5 hours at a temp of 140, is that not a health risk?  That's an awful low temp for such an extended time with raw meat?  According to my Weber smoking manual, meat should not be kept below 140 for more than I think 3 hours.

robs

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2006, 08:41:18 pm »
I don't think so, because smoke is introduced. I'll let the more experienced members chime in.

rob

Offline kiyotei

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2006, 09:00:46 pm »
According to Webber, the smoke will not retard things like botulism (which flourishes in anaerobic environments).

Offline Chez Bubba

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2006, 07:04:33 pm »
I'm tired & don't feel like doing the research, but manxman, JJC & others had a very detailed & informative discussion on this topic on another thread.

If I remember correctly, which I very well may not, botulism isn't a concern because of the final temp you take it to, but there are some other nasties that come into play & might make you fill the bowl with pudding or worse.

Anyway, my main point is, do a search for that thread. It is fascinating reading presented from guys who really know the facts.

Kirk
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Ya think if next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non", they would mind?

Offline manxman

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2006, 03:51:25 am »
Quote
looking at your last comments about smoking the meat for 5 hours at a temp of 140, is that not a health risk?


I would suggest having a read through the articles below for anyone concerned about food poisoning as it should answer any concerns.

Very often the answer to queries depends on individual circumstance and it is difficult to give a definitive answer if all the what, if's and but's are not known.

For example I cold smoke fish at room temperature for 8 hours but the fish has been brined and the smoke adheres to the fish during the smoking process. However, whilst smoke is a decent antimicrobial and antioxidant, smoke alone is insufficient for preserving food in practice. The main problem is that the smoke compounds adhere only to the outer surfaces of the food; smoke doesn't actually penetrate far into meat or fish hence the importance of curing from a preservation point of view which in itself is probably more effective at inhibiting growth.

However, food nowadays is generally cured less than in days of old when long term preservation was required and there were no freezers, curing and smoking nowadays is often more about flavour and taste rather than preservation.

That is why I make absolutely sure I cook my cured/cold smoked fish thoroughly where appropriate and am very careful with my "lox" type preparations!

It is worth bearing in mind this quote from the food poisoning articles:

"However, the "danger zone" where harmful bacteria can multiply is almost always quoted as 40–140F. (5–60C) This is the temperature range to remember and food must not be allowed to linger in this zone"

Conversely, linger generally means more than two hours, however leaving it longer than two hours does not mean you are going to get food poisoning, only that the odds are increased in favour of it happening. Similarly the growth rate of bacteria falls off rapidly above 113F and very few can grow above 122F, the optimum temperature for growth being 98/99F, human body temperature. It is therefore all about making informed choices....."you pay your money and take your chance"!  ;)

If in doubt, err on the side of caution.

http://susan.rminor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7

http://susan.rminor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9

http://susan.rminor.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12
Manxman

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2006, 05:29:16 am »
I just like to add; what most are unaware of is that the 2 hours in the danger zone is what the FDA is considering a cumulative period of time. For example, if you purchase you meat at a market and it takes you 30 minutes to drive home and get the meat in the refrigerator, that 30 minutes counts as part of the 2 hours. Refrigeration only retards or stops the growth, it does not kill the bacteria.


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Offline manxman

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2006, 05:49:45 am »
Quote
I just like to add; what most are unaware of is that the 2 hours in the danger zone is what the FDA is considering a cumulative period of time. For example, if you purchase you meat at a market and it takes you 30 minutes to drive home and get the meat in the refrigerator, that 30 minutes counts as part of the 2 hours. Refrigeration only retards or stops the growth, it does not kill the bacteria.

Very good point HS, and not only that, if the meat has been in say a warm/hot car for example or you have done other shopping before going back to the car it may take a good while after it has been put in the fridge to cool down again so that 30 minutes may soon becomes an hour or longer!  :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 08:40:43 am by manxman »
Manxman

Offline Chez Bubba

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2006, 05:22:55 pm »
See, I told ya. Thanks manx.

I did forget to tell you that they use really big words! ;D ;D

Kirk
http://www.brianswish.com
Ya think if next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non", they would mind?

Offline icerat4

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2006, 05:25:10 pm »
 ;D




Just another weekend with the smoker...

Offline manxman

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2006, 12:54:59 am »
Quote
I did forget to tell you that they use really big words!

Haha...... it's looking up how to spell them in the dictionary that takes the time!! :-[ ;) ;D
Manxman

Offline vmmike

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2006, 10:57:50 pm »
Okay, now back to the smoke flavor.  Sorry to put a first post in the middle of this one but.........  ??? I feel Rob's pain.   :'(

My background is twenty plus years of smoking with a offset smoker with a vertical tower.  All my smoking has been done in Texas, with Mesquite(for beef) I used charcoal for heat and Moskeet  ;) for flavor.  I usually smoke for 9-10 hours with a target temp between 200 F and 225 Fand then just heat for another six plus @ 200 F, for 12# to 15# briskets.

I have been complemented for my great tasting, melt in your mouth meat with great flavor.  Typically I get a 1/4 to 3/8  inch penetration on the smoke.

Anyway, since I burned out the firebox on my last smoker(all that Moskeet), I figured I look around and found this Bradley deal online.  It looked great to me and I didn't have to get up all night tending the fire.  So I bought a Bradley Digital Six Rack Smoker....  Let the games begin!  :D

I broke in my smoker at 275 F for four hours with a two hour smoke time with special blend.  They came with the smoker and I don't think I will ever use them  ;D for anything else except the last two pucks to push.(What is special blend anyway? :o)  I bought mesquite, apple, cherry with the smoker.

My first real smoke was a 9# bricket with 5 hours of Mesquite and heat for 9:40 @ 200 F.  I then did some more dry heat @ 200.

The result was a very nice baked brisket with absolutely no penetration and no smoke flavor.  :-\  My wife commented on how the BBQ had my typical consistency, but, NO FLAVOR...... ???

I am open to suggestions and I will check out the temp on the plate, but I don't think that is the problem as most of the bisquettes were nothing but coffee grounds on the bottom of the catch bowl.  A few of them remained entact and appeared completely spent/charred up, burnt etc, etc.

My inclination is to open the vent more and turn down the heat to 180 F and increase the smoke time for the next smoke.

I have read along the way that meat will not accept smoke past an internal temp of 160 F so the 140 F quoted earlier in this thread makes some sense and isn't that far off my other source.  What's 20 F among friends? :)  Well maybe in this crowd its a lot as we look at installing PID's to control heat to a gnat's.... I mean REAL CLOSE.  8)

Point me in the direction and I shall try.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Your humble student of the great smoke (be it elusive)

Mike

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: How to get more smoke flavor.
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2006, 05:38:03 am »
VMMike;

Welcome to the forum. The only question that I can give you an answer on is what is special blend. The special blend bisquettes are a mixture of all the other wood flavors except the mesquite.

As for you not getting enough smoke flavor, I can't help you there. It appears that your BS is functioning fine. Using 5 hours of mesquite  in my BS would be over powering for me. I've never had a problem with not enough smoke flavor. I usually have the opposite. Reading your post, I can't think of anything else, other then to make sure the surface of the meat is dry before applying smoke. That will help somewhat. I usually do not do that for large cuts of meat, because as I stated I've never had a problem of not getting enough smoke flavor.

When you talk about "no penetration", are you talking about the absence of a "smoke ring"? You are not going to get a "smoke ring" by using a electric smoker. You can only get a "smoke ring" by cooking over organic fuel such as wood, charcoal and/or gas. Burning of these types of fuel produces trace amounts of nitrogen dioxide. When it comes in contact with the meat surface it dissolves and eventually converts to nitric oxide, which react to the pigment in the meat to form a "pink ring". This can penetrate to a depth of about 1/3"-3/8" (8-10 mm). Although you are producing smoke in the BS, the bisquettes are not burning hot enough to produce traces on nitrogen dioxide, or in the amount that would be needed to create a "smoke ring."

As far as the PID's, and the Raptor/Guru's; those devices were added on by members who own the original BS, way before Bradley thought of producing a digital smoker. We did not have the option to buy the digital, as you had. In a way I'm glad, because the original can be customized more by the owner. My opinion, if you got something that can control the temperature down to a gnat's, then why not take advantage of it.

Hopefully, someone can come up with the answers to solve your problem.


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