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Author Topic: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...  (Read 211983 times)

Offline MallardWacker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2006, 12:25:12 PM »
Thanks ....

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Offline Oldman

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2006, 05:12:26 PM »
'bout dang time this got stickied... now I'm just waiting for duck man to post it for the recipe site.

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Offline MallardWacker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2006, 05:48:52 AM »
Olds, it is on the "TO-DO-LIST", I am so sorry, I really want to add it.  Well I did edit out all the old code stuff to make it look better and pulled the misspelling, I think I have to correct a link, but I will do that.

I even have a loin in the fridge that I want to document with pictures for my Maple recipe.  SO at least I am thinking about it.

They say small men make big excuses but this has been my son's last semester and between graduation and getting him ready for college has keeping me hopp'n, let alone the dorks that run in to each other on the road way and decide to add their own bleach to the gene pool.

SmokeOn,

Mike
Perryville, Arkansas

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Offline asa

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2006, 07:29:49 PM »
After another spasm of ribs and shoulders last weekend, I'm trying my hand at curing pork this week - about 1/3 of a loin and the thicker half of a boned shoulder for Canadian-style and hillbilly bacon respectively. I've read JJC's helpful treatise on curing on the recipe site and MallardWacker's recipe at the beginning of this thread, as well as whatever else I've been able to find. The Morton TenderQuick package says 4-8 hours for a dry-rub cure, others on the web recommend 3-5 or 7 days, and MW lets his go for 21 days.  My question is what is the effect of longer curing times. First of all, 4-8 hours doesn't seem long enough for full penetration into the center of a loin or piece of shoulder - is it? Second, what is the difference in the final result of similar pieces cured for 4-8 hours, 5 days, and 21 days? I mixed my TenderQuick half and half with brown sugar and plan to cure for about 5 days before rinsing well and smoking. I may be able to do a comparison test myself (at least for the 4-8 hrs cf. 5 days) and will do so if I can. Anyone else who has done a comparison test like this or who can tell me what to expect the difference to be?

Thanks very much - 'preciate it.
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Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2006, 03:30:14 AM »
After another spasm of ribs and shoulders last weekend, I'm trying my hand at curing pork this week - about 1/3 of a loin and the thicker half of a boned shoulder for Canadian-style and hillbilly bacon respectively. I've read JJC's helpful treatise on curing on the recipe site and MallardWacker's recipe at the beginning of this thread, as well as whatever else I've been able to find. The Morton TenderQuick package says 4-8 hours for a dry-rub cure, others on the web recommend 3-5 or 7 days, and MW lets his go for 21 days.  My question is what is the effect of longer curing times. First of all, 4-8 hours doesn't seem long enough for full penetration into the center of a loin or piece of shoulder - is it? Second, what is the difference in the final result of similar pieces cured for 4-8 hours, 5 days, and 21 days? I mixed my TenderQuick half and half with brown sugar and plan to cure for about 5 days before rinsing well and smoking. I may be able to do a comparison test myself (at least for the 4-8 hrs cf. 5 days) and will do so if I can. Anyone else who has done a comparison test like this or who can tell me what to expect the difference to be?

Thanks very much - 'preciate it.

I've never done Canadian style bacon, but I do use Morton's Tenderquick. The 4-8 hours is not going to do it. I never read the back of the package, and was surprise to see 4-8 hours mentions. It looks as if they are referring to pork chops, chicken pieces and other small thin cuts of meat, more of a flavoring than curing for kitchen use. If you go to the Morton site, they recommend 3-5 days for 3 pounds of pork loin. What I have found for the recommended times that Morton gives; when I make pastrami, is the take the longest time and add one day for insurance.

The important step is applying the right amount of cure. Morton recommends 1 teaspoon per pound. Did you mix the whole bag, or just the amount you are going to use. Example; if you have a 3 pound loin. You will premix 3 teaspoons of cure with the amount of sugar. Mix well and use all of the mixture. If you mixed the whole bag with brown sugar, I'm not sure how you are going to ensure that you apply 1 teaspoon of cure per pound.  It may have been easier to purchase one of Morton's sugar cures.
http://www.mortonsalt.com/recipes/recipeex.asp?recipeid=117
http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/meatcuring/index.htm

The difference in curing times will depend on the thickness of the meat and the type of cure. Morton Tenderquick is a quick cure, but it is not as fast as Pargue Powder #1. It has both nitrites and nitrates, so it is similar to Prague powder #2.

Let us know how it turns out. I've also been thinking of making some bacon.


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Offline manxman

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2006, 03:42:53 AM »
I buy a commercial ready made bacon cure which come with specific instructions regarding (dry) curing times, these would probably vary somewhat depending on the concentrations of the various constituents (e.g salt) of the various cures. However 4 - 8 hours seems a remarkable short period of time to cure!!

The place where I buy my bacon cure sells three different types and keeps the curing time the same but varies the amount of cure needed, varying from 30grms/kilo:0.5oz/lb up to 50grms/kilo:0.8oz/lb.

It is the thickness of the meat rather than size that is important and they recommend curing times of 1 day per half inch ( 13mm) thickness of meat, plus 2 days and cured at a temperatue of 2-4C/36-40F.

This is in line with the instruction I got from my butcher as well, I have typically cured for between 6 and 10 days. The biggest difference I have noticed is the saltiness of the end product being noticeable more salty the longer it is cured. However at 10 days it was not unpleasantly salty for me, although others said they would have preferred it less so.

I think doing a comparison test yourself is the best bet to end up with a product YOU like, the 5-6 day cure time seems a good starting point to me and the only additional thing I would add is to dry the meat well after a thorough rinse prior to smoking, it will take up the smoke a whole lot better that way. ;)

Let us know how you get on.

N.B: read HS's post just after I posted mine...... he just beat me to it. Looks like we are both saying a similar thing.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 03:47:23 AM by manxman »
Manxman

Offline asa

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2006, 07:33:59 AM »
Thanks to both HS and manxman for your replies. I used what I estimated as approximately 1 tablespoon (not teaspoon) of tenderquick/# of meat (perhaps slightly more since I didn't actually weigh the meat), mixed with an equal amount of brown sugar. Perhaps this will be too sweet, but we'll give it a try. After reading your comments, I guess I won't try the 4-8 hr end of the scale - it seemed way too short for me also, and I appreciate your confirming that. I guess I should also get out our old triple-beam balance for weighing meats that I'm curing since I don't have a kitchen scale that will measure over 18oz.

Thanks again for your help,
     Art
Enjoy good Southern-style smoked barbecue -- it's not just for breakfast anymore!
Play old-time music - it's better than it sounds!
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Please Note: The cook is not responsible for dog hair in the food!!

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2006, 09:43:10 AM »
Reviewing my notes and Morton's web site, it's 1 tablespoon/pound. After the cure time I would soak it a couple of times in cold water.

My digital scale broke last week. I don't know what your price range is, but Cook's Illustrated recommends the Soehnle 66524 Futura Digital Food Scale, 11 Pounds Capacity. I ordered mine for Amazon.com, for $70.00. Fed Ex is suppose to have delivered it yesterday, but rescheduled deliver for today.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 09:49:27 AM by Habanero Smoker »


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Offline whitetailfan

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2006, 12:32:53 PM »
First of all, 4-8 hours doesn't seem long enough for full penetration into the center of a loin or piece of shoulder - is it?  I mixed my TenderQuick half and half with brown sugar and plan to cure for about 5 days before rinsing well and smoking.
No 4-8 hrs is not long enough.  The Morton directions for this are for curing individual pork chops, chicken pieces, or fish fillets.

If you are going to dry cure this with the sugar, I would treat it like a pre-packaged cure and go 10 days.

Can't explain the penetration time, but if you made a brine, I go about 36 to 40 hours on a loin.  The concentration of the brine by Morton's directions is strong to say the least.  Works for me though.

See this thread about smoked pork chops.  Read the whole thing, page 2 is where the amounts and times get more accrate.

Edit for clarity
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 12:37:39 PM by whitetailfan »
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Offline asa

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2006, 03:35:01 PM »
Hab and Whitetail - thanks for more great tips. I especially enjoyed reading the pork chop link - thanks very much for pointing it out WTF. It sure was interesting and helpful to read what y'all were working out 2 years ago on this forum. What a great resource. Since I did thaw out another 1/3 loin, think I'll take a suggestion from that thread and try brining it for 36 hrs until saturday am, then smoke it along with the other 6 day dry-cured pieces. And HS, let us know how you like that scale. It seemed a little pricey at first read, but probably very reasonable for a digital like that, especially if it is really good. I just have a small cheap spring-loaded one I use for measuring out my Christmas candy every year. May be time to upgrade.

Thanks again to all,
     Art
Enjoy good Southern-style smoked barbecue -- it's not just for breakfast anymore!
Play old-time music - it's better than it sounds!
     And
Please Note: The cook is not responsible for dog hair in the food!!

Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2006, 03:39:10 PM »
The scale arrived. I haven't checked it out yet, but I will post my findings in the accessories thread, so that this thread doesn't get too far off subject.


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Offline MallardWacker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2006, 06:32:02 PM »
Well I leave for a couple days and and I can see the store is minded well.

YUP, got me some Maple in for 21 days now, hope to have it out this weekend.  I put about 1/3 cup of Maple syrup in with each third of the loin.

Pictures to follow....
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 07:12:52 AM by MallardWacker »

SmokeOn,

Mike
Perryville, Arkansas

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Offline BigSmoker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2006, 01:06:02 PM »
Well I leave for a couple days and and I can see the store is minded well.

YUP, got me some Maple in for 21 days know, hope to have it out this weekend.  I put about 1/3 cup of Maple syrup in with each third of the loin.

Pictures to follow....

We await the results :P :P :P.
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Offline jenbayjazz

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2007, 02:39:09 AM »
I found this on the morton website for canadian bacon

DIRECTIONS FOR DRY CURE For the dry cure, use Tender-Quick at the rate of 6 lbs. Tender-Quick per 100 lbs. of loins. First rub the meat with 1/3 of the Tender-Quick, then in 2 or 3 hours rub on the second 1/3 and in 24 hours apply the balance. Pack the loins closely while in cure and overhaul once when the curing time is about halt up, changing the position of the pieces.
Leave the pieces in cure for 10 days to two weeks. When taken from the cure, wash the loins, let them dry thoroughly, and rub with cornmeal and pepper. Wrap in muslin the same as for the sweet pickle cure.
Complete the cut by trimming close to the bones. The loin and backbone are shown separated below.

This last statement confused me because loins are boneless . that’s the way I buy them anyway. If indeed they mean bone in then maybe that’s why the ratio below seems pretty high.
 I broke it down this way to figure out how much tender quick I should use on my little over 7.45 lb loin. I use a digital postage scale that weights in lbs and onces and 10ths of oz.

TQ     Loin
96oz- 100lb
48oz – 50 lb
24oz – 25 lb
12 ½ oz  - 12 ½ lb
6 ¼ oz    -  6 ¼ lb

So I figured it’s about 1 oz of tender quick per lb of meat . I used 7 oz of tender quick and it seemed like a lot. After rubbing the last of the tender quick in I rubbed some brown sugar too. Anyone have any feed back on this?
I’m going to cure my loin that I cut up into 3 pieces for 14 days but check on them after 7 days by cutting into the thickest one to see how far the cure has traveled into the meat.

I bought my loin in a grocery store in a vacuum sealed package and checked the package to make sure there were no added ingredients of any kind.

If anyone can give me feedback on this formula or cure times I’d sure love to know what some of you more experieced folks know !

I’ll let you know how they come out

Mark - aka jenbayjazz and for all you smoking jazz lovers www.jenbayjazz.com



Offline MallardWacker

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Re: BACON: List of curing , smoking times & temps...
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2007, 06:20:49 AM »
Mark,

I personally don't use TQ, but a few folks do around here.  I have always said read and follow the instructions.  I know the cure I use always seems if you measure it out "It looks" like it isn't enough but it always is...mine comes out fine.  Of all the recipes the 14day mark seems to be pretty common...so I think that number is OK now about the amount of TQ...gosh that does sound like a lot...maybe  someone will chime in...also I would re-post this thing and start a new thread...more people will read it.

SmokeOn,

Mike
Perryville, Arkansas

It's not how much you smoke but how many friends you make while doing it...