Heat & colour

[Dalby Spook]

Hi folks

I,ve noticed that when smoking at low ambient temps , say 10c, with the remote cardboard box, the food tastes just fine but takes very little colour. In some cases it looks exactly the same as when it went in 8 hours ago.

With the generator in the normal position it's the usual problem of fighting the inevitable high temps, but the food looks great afterwards.
Is it possible to run with the remote box and have the heater just ticking over on mininmum or is it too hot?

I'm aiming for 80c which has given me the best results.

John

[manxman]

Hi John,

If you have a look at the calig I dropped off you will see that it has taken on quite a yellowish colour, that was cold smoked for 8 hours at about 15 - 20C using the cardboard box method. Cheese (mature cheddar) hardly alters colour at all after a couple of hours and it is not till you leave it in a good 4 or 5 hours that some colour change is really evident so the colour change depends on what food you are smoking and the colour it is in the first place as well as length of time in the smoker.

I have not really noticed any difference in colour between smoking at say 10C or 20C but to be honest I have not looked that hard either! True cold smoking is generally regarded as less than 26C/80F although some sources quote up to 30C/90F and even 100F but I think that is too high.

With the heater element ticking over I think that would make the box too hot IMHO.

I have noticed that if the food is too moist (eg whitefish) or the temperature too hot (eg. makes the cheese sweat) smoke uptake hence colour change is not as good.

Some foods it just seems impossible to get a nice "smoky" colour change when cold smoking.

[Dalby Spook]

Ignore that utter rubbish about 80c. What I meant was 80f. I have to say though, Manx, there was a marked difference between the last batch of kippers & boiled eggs and the previous one.

First one 6 hours @ 50 - 60f using oak and very pale. Last one same but 80 - 90f. Tasted very similar but much more pleasing "authentic" colour. It's probably more noticeable with herrings because the're so oily. Also makes eggs very "kipperish"!. Do them separate next time.

Many thanks for callig & rub. Fish going to mums to make her legendary fish pie. Just shout if you want some more game.(can get rabbit & hare also)

What do I ask for at the butchers if I want to do "ribs" or "buts"? Is that like spare ribs and a rolled joint? ( no not that kind of "joint") 

[SmokyJones]

That was funny Dalby!!  I had the same question???

[LilSmoker]

Hi guys, i'm from U.K., when i want to do butts for pulled pork, i ask my butcher for a shoulder of pork, with the bone left in, and the fat and rind left on, the last two that i've done have been bought this way, and have turned out perfect. I did do some rolled and boned shoulder cuts, but i've found they turn out better done in the fashion of our U.S. buddies  ;)

I always ask for baby back ribs, as i prefer them, If you have access to a Costco store, their rubs are very good usually  ;)

[manxman]

Ignore that utter rubbish about 80c.

Yes, I guessed it was 80F and a typo.

Was it more windy during one of the smokes? Did you have the vent open to the same degree during both smokes or open the door more often? Must admit I have never managed to get much colour in my cold smoked herrings in any case which has been a disappointment.

I just ask for "spare ribs" from the butchers, they always seem to want to cut them into individual ribs which is what they have on display but I get them in slabs of around 3 - 4 lb per slab. To date I have found the butchers in Kirk Michael and Port St Mary the best, they will take the skin off for you if you ask. They to be around £2.20lb at the moment, I bought about 12lb of spare ribs yesterday and have got some cooking as we speak.

Not sure about "butts", not done one as yet but I have a UK chart of pork cuts and they talk about "Boston Style Butts" and "rolled Boston Style Butts" which would fit with the Boston Butts mentioned here on the forum. Both the butcher's mentioned are good to humour me with my endless question about cuts of meat, curing etc etc. :-[

I have done pork shoulder from the other end! That worked out well.

Would love any more game you have spare, I have had rabbit before and it is lovely but definately fancy trying hare. :)

[manxman]

I always ask for baby back ribs, as i prefer them, If you have access to a Costco store, their rubs are very good usually

Hi Lilsmoker,

Not done babyback ribs to date, are they more meaty or tender?

The nearest Costco is in Liverpool but we are not allowed to import most red meats back into the Isle of Man when we visit the UK, it is meant to protect the local meat market. Having said that the quality of the local meat is very good but also quite expensive.

When I have visited Costco I did notice thay seem to sell a lot of USDA meat imported form the US.

Sounds like you have had good success with pork shoulder, this is an area we have much to learn from our American friends I think.  :)

[LilSmoker]

Hi manxman, yes the baby back ribs that i have smoked so far, have been much more tender and seem allround better than the bigger ribs i've tried, i think the bigger ones are known as "country ribs" accross the pond?
There is a good old fashioned butchers shop not far from me, he always has a good stock of baby back ribs, and generally the meat is very good quality.
I've noticed a couple of things lately when i do ribs, i've found that by leaving the racks as big as poss, they seem to hold their moisture/juices better, and also i used to rub the ribs, and leave over night in the fridge, but now i apply the rub about an hour before smoking, this seems to stop them drying too much?
Like many though, i'm still looking for my perfect ribs  ;D but i am getting there, they've all been delicious so far.

Lately i have been buying pork shoulders from the same butcher, bone in, not rolled etc, they cost around £10-£12 each. The butcher told me he doesn't get much demand for the shoulders in their natural state, and so most are boned and rolled, but he told me if i give him a few days notice he will always keep 1 or 2 back for me.

Bye for now.......LilSmoker ;)

[Chez Bubba]

Hi manxman, yes the baby back ribs that i have smoked so far, have been much more tender and seem allround better than the bigger ribs i've tried, i think the bigger ones are known as "country ribs" accross the pond?

No. Over here, country style ribs are not ribs at all, simply sliced-up butt. If your "larger" ribs actually have a rib bone, they are more than likely spareribs, or the upper part of the ribcage.

From all of the above posts, I also think what you folks are equating to our "butt" is what we normally refer to as a "Picnic ham". In general, both qualify as "butt", but the "picnic" designation refers to the bone-in, skin-on cut of the lower arm. (Think elbow.)

What we commonly refer to as "butt" is the skinless, semi-boneless, front shoulder portion. More meat, less bone, higher yield. Recipes though are for the most part interchangeable.

FWIW,

Kirk

[iceman]

More meat, less bone, higher yield.
FWIW,

Kirk

Chez I'm all choked up on this one. I won't even start with the long cold nights and more meat less bone thing! Higher yeild??? Well that's all in ones opinion I've been told. :D ;D :o ::) ;) Sorry, to many cold ones tonight. :)

[West Coast Kansan]

and then there is boston?

[Chez Bubba]

In my understanding, "Boston" = "Butt". I do know some areas consider only a boneless butt to be considered "Boston".

Kirk

[West Coast Kansan]

Kirk, that is what I understood as well - it seems to go either way here. Butt - then so do a lot of people.

[manxman]

i've found that by leaving the racks as big as poss, they seem to hold their moisture/juices better

Yes, definately. The butchers over here seem to think they are doing you a favour by cutting them up into individual ribs but I now ask them to leave them intact as a slab of meat. Come out far nicer.  :)

I will have to try some baby back ribs to compare. Always find it interesting regarding the different cuts of meat between us and our friends on the other side of the pond.