Author Topic: PID Question  (Read 17407 times)

Offline Mr Walleye

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PID Question
« on: January 15, 2007, 02:13:23 pm »
I'm finally getting things together to build a PID. I will be putting it in a project box because I have a DBS. This way I can use the current display strictly for the smoke generator. It also frees me up to cold smoke using a separate box for the generator (next project).

Ok, here is what I ordered from Auber
1/16 DIN PID (for SSR Output) Model SYL-2352
25A SSR Model RS1A40D25

Here is what I ordered from Omega
Round face Mini Panel Jack Model RMJ-K-R
T/C Assembly W/Trans Joint Model TJ96-CASS-316U-3-SB-SMPW-M

I ordered the TC wire a little long so I can steal a little to wire the panel Jack. I plan on wiring it exactly as the write up by Rob on Olds recipe site here:
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=315

I plan on using 14 ga stranded wire for the project.

Because I'm putting it in a project box and supplying separate AC to it I want to fuse it. I've done allot of reading and I'm having trouble figuring out where the fuse should go. Here is the link to the wiring diagram I am going to follow.
http://www.susanminor.org/Rayeimages/pid/diagram.jpg

Should the fuse be in the wire between the SSR terminal labelled T1 and the power cord going to the box element?

I assume an 8 amp fuse would be good?

Is a heat sink necessary?

Do you see any other errors in my plan?

I still haven't came up with a project box but I will find something.

Thanks
Mike
« Last Edit: January 16, 2007, 05:16:01 pm by Mr Walleye »

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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2007, 05:20:58 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

Best practice is to take the hot immediately to a fuse, then off the fuse to your terminal strip.

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2007, 05:47:03 pm »
Thanks for the response A&S

So, (help me here I'm electrically challenged) based on the wiring diagram above, the power is coming in from the the right side labelled "Power Cord Male End to Generator". Because I'm supplying separate AC this is where my power comes in. Of these wires am I correct that the black wire is the "hot" wire?

Thanks
Mike

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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 05:50:21 pm »
Black is hot.

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 06:04:17 pm »
A&S

Do you feel an 8 amp fuse would be good/bad?

do you feel a heat sink on the SSR is necessary?

Thanks
Mike

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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2007, 06:23:36 pm »
8 amp sounds right (assuming the DBS has the same element as the Original). My OBS has a 10 amp fuse, so you figure some juice for the generator element, and the balance for the big guy.

I have no experience with the SSR mentioned and that setup. I've built my own PID from "scratch" using a triac for power control with a very modest heat sink and modest temperature rise. If you are putting all this in a metal box, I would imagine screwing the SSR to the box would be adequate. Rule of thumb for electronics is that if you cannot keep your thumb on it, it is too hot.

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2007, 06:45:32 pm »
I'm sure the element would be the same in both the DBS & OBS. The fuse in the generator on the DBS is a 10 amp so without the generator running through it the 8 amp should be good. Thanks for the tip on determining how much is too much heat buildup.

Mike

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Offline owrstrich

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2007, 02:31:11 pm »
10amp... humm... i cant read the fuse... my fuse just blew... man was it hot... i could have lit off a spleef... now onto puke boys... manny... moe... and jack...

you gotta eat...

owrstrich
i am johnny owrstrich... i disapprove of this post...

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 11:47:41 am »
I finally got all the parts for this project and tackled it last night. I will eventually post some pics of it but right now I first need to get it running.

The problem - I wired everything as indicated in the wiring diagram listed in my first post with the exception of adding a fuse in the hot wire (black) coming in from the AC outlet as per Arcs recomendation. I plugged the unit in and it displayed the actual temp on the top display and the target temp on the bottom display. I held the TC in my fingers and could see the top display increase so everything appeared to be working. I unplugged the PID. Next, I plugged the output power cord from the PID into the element in the tower, then plugged the PID back into the AC. Next I waited..... and waited    and waited but still no heat from the element. I unplugged everything, took it all apart and rechecked my wiring and it all is correct. Put it all back togetther and nothing. I also checked all the factory settings to make sure they were the same as the PID manual and they are.

Am I missing something here?

Are there any initial setting required to make it run that I'm not aware of?

Any help would be greatly apreciated.

Thanks
Mike
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 04:24:15 pm by Mr Walleye »

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Offline smokerman

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2007, 01:35:43 pm »
You also have to have the little cable from the  smoke gen. to the back of the unit pluged in. I think that is the temp sensor.  Mine had to be plugged in for the element to start heating when using the PID.


Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2007, 04:16:17 pm »
Hi Smokerman

I have the temp sensor plugged in. I am supplying power straight from AC to the PID, then directly to the heating element in the tower. I know you can plug the heating unit directly into an AC outlet (with the proper cord) and the heating element will be running wide open. So based on this my plan was to run separate power to the smoke generator and a separate power to the main heating element.

Mike

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Offline dick621

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2007, 05:04:00 pm »
Mr Walleye,  If Im reading right it sounds like you have the smoke generator plugged into the PID.   I think the main heater in the smoker is the one to plug into the PID>.  I may have misread tho.
Dick in Emmett, Idaho

Offline dick621

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2007, 05:06:40 pm »
going back and re reading I was right.  By that I mean I had missread. sorry.
Dick in Emmett, Idaho

Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2007, 06:00:22 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

Debugging at a distance is a bit tough, but my train of thought...

1. Sounds like power and TC connections to PID are okay, so that leaves the following questions:
a. setpoint is higher than current temp, thus calling for power?
b. the connection between the PID and SSR has the correct polarity?
c. if the PID is energizing the SSR, the LED on the SSR should be on?
d. I am out of ideas, so I'm getting a drink.....   :D

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2007, 06:27:21 pm »
Hi Arcs

"1. Sounds like power and TC connections to PID are okay, so that leaves the following questions:"
I agree

"a. setpoint is higher than current temp, thus calling for power?"
Yes, I have the setpoint at 200 and the TC reads room temp.

"b. the connection between the PID and SSR has the correct polarity?"
I've checked the wiring several times and it is wired exactly as the diagram indicates.

"c. if the PID is energizing the SSR, the LED on the SSR should be on?"
Yup, the LED on the SSR is on.

"d. I am out of ideas, so I'm getting a drink..."
I couldn't agree more with you Arcs!  ;D

Mike


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