Author Topic: PID Question  (Read 17205 times)

Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2007, 06:42:20 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

Ah, sounds like you are very close! If the SSR is energized (assuming it is good), then power should be flowing to the outlet and your heating element.

So, the problem could be:
1. neutral not carried through (unlikely)
2. hot and load connection on the SSR interchanged (should not matter, but what the heck).
3. some aspect of the DBS power connection that is making life hard (don't have a DBS, so don't know)
4. having another drink.......   8)

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2007, 07:12:46 pm »
Arcs

1. neutral not carried through (unlikely)
Checked and double checked, definitely carried through.

2. hot and load connection on the SSR interchanged (should not matter, but what the heck).
Not sure about this except they are wired as in the diagram.

3. some aspect of the DBS power connection that is making life hard (don't have a DBS, so don't know)
Ther is nothing on the DBS to stop you from sending AC directly to the box. When I had the fuse holder burn up, I had a load of jerky in. What I did was take the main power cord out of the generaor and plug directly into the tower. This gave me full power and no control but allowwed me to finish of the jerky by plugging and unplugging it.

4. having another drink.......
Me Too!  ;D

I wonder if it would have anything to do with any of the settings? I don't know enough about them. I realize that in addition to turning the power on and of they also decide how much power to apply.

Mike   

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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2007, 07:26:07 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

You have been very helpful tonight; all this thinking and replying has gotten me three drinks...   :o

Kind of troubles me that the SSR light is on, but no power to the heater. Possible to plug a lamp into your setup and "see" if juice is being switched by the SSR? Assuming no juice to your light, either the SSR is bad, there is a bad connection in terms of getting 120 volts to the SSR, or a bad connection getting it from the SSR to your outlet. I like to use light bulbs if one does not have a voltmeter handy.

Wish I was closer, and I'd bring some Jack with me to help the debugging. Since I am not closer, the Jack is staying with me and I am having number four.

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2007, 07:42:12 pm »
Arcs

Glad to help ya out!  ;D  ;D  ;D

I do have a multi gauge and I did check voltage at the L1 connector on the SSR has 120 volts. What I didn't check was the T1 connector. If I'm correct the T1 connector should also have 120 volts providing the PID is requesting more heat. Does this sound correct if so I'll run out to the garage and check it? Again (I'm electrically challenged) The way I've been using the volt meter is touching the red lead to L1 or T1 connector on the SSR while touching the black lead to the neutral, is this correct?

Mike

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Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2007, 08:02:34 pm »
I ran out and checked L1 has 120 on it and T1 varies between .0 to .4 volts. Clearly that is the reason it's not getting the element hot. But what would the problem be? Bad SSR or PID?

Mike

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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2007, 08:06:14 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

Correct. If the SSR is closing in, you should have 120 volts on the output side of the relay (T1). If so, then you should be able to "follow" the 120 volts to your output connector. Black to neutral (or ground) is correct, using your red lead to measure voltage.

Since you have 120 volts at L1, a quick check would be to short out the SSR (jumper from L1 to T1). That will take the relay out of the equation, and verify the balance of the wiring. That will not harm the relay in any way.

Since you should not drink and measure voltage at the same time, I will have that drink for you, and will look forward to your posts in the morning.

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2007, 08:09:19 pm »
Thanks Arcs.... Make sure you enjoy that drink too!  ;D

I will try jumping it accross and see what happens.

Mike

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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2007, 08:17:23 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

Sorry, typing & drinking during your reply.

1. The SSR spec is that to turn on, you should have a minimum of 4.2 volts across A1 and A2. (this would be a D.C. voltage)
2. The off voltage is < 1.5 volts.
3. Setting the setpoint to less than the current temp should drive the LED off; that would verify the PID is okay.

Sounds like a SSR problem at this point.

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2007, 08:30:24 pm »
Thanks Arcs

I just got back in from jumping across T1 and L1 and the element gets red hot.

I will check the A1/A2 DC volts when the PID is calling for heat and when it's not. I will also see if the LED on the SSR goes out when the PID isn't calling for heat.

Mike

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Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2007, 08:44:15 pm »
I just checked and the DC volts across A1/A2 when the PID is calling for heat is 13.25 volts and the SSR LED is on.

When the PID is not calling for heat the DC voltage is 0 and the SSR LED is out.

So... does this mean the SSR is faulty?

Mike

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Offline Mr Walleye

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2007, 10:22:15 am »
Just for the heck of it I sent Suyi from Auber Instruments an email this morning with a link to this thread to see what his thoughts were. Wow! He phoned me in a couple of minutes of the email, went through the tests that I've done and felt it is a faulty SSR and is shipping a new one out today.

Holy Crap... You gotta love excellent, prompt customer service! I would highly recommend Auber Instruments to anybody contemplating this project in a heartbeat.

Arcs & Sparks - I also want to thank you for taking the time to assist me with this. It's people like you that make this forum the wealth of information and assistance that everyone enjoys.

I will keep you posted with how I make out once I've received the new SSR. I will also post a picture of the finished product and my "unique & creative" project box.

Thanks again
Mike

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Offline Wildcat

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2007, 02:05:44 pm »
 ;)
Life is short. Smile while you still have teeth.



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Offline Arcs_n_Sparks

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2007, 05:32:52 pm »
Mr. Walleye,

Looking forward to your report when the new SSR gets installed.

Glad to help; just trying to contribute a fraction back of what I have learned from others here. Have a long way to go.....

Arcs_n_Sparks

Offline West Coast Kansan

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2007, 07:54:46 pm »
Looking forward to these results Mr. Walleye. Will soon know how a PID works on a DBS. Will be interesting also to track temps with display and independent. Sure glad you post.

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Offline nodak

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Re: PID Question
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2007, 07:36:26 am »
Back to your fuse question, I not only fused my power coming in right away, but also put a 1 amp slow blow fuse to protect the PID as the directions recommend w/ the PID.  Not sure if anyone else has done this.