Author Topic: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon  (Read 6661 times)

Offline Gizmo

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2008, 09:52:39 pm »
All Hail Kummok, the salmon King,Once again, stupid forgot the digital camera at home, so there are no photos of my endeavour. 

At times the smoke generator on my DBS6 was almost 40 degrees off in comparison to what the PID was set for, and what my et-73 was reading.  The folks at Bradley should really look into this issue.


I guess we will have to forgive you for not snapping the pics josbocc.

Where was the PID thermocouple located in relation to the one on the back side of the bradley?

I did a couple of pork loins (canadian bacon style) the other night and had 3 temperature sensors going.
Setup:  1 rack, with high temp screens, 2 pork loins, rack in middle of 6 rack. 
The ET 73 was clipped below the rack on the left.
The polder dual probe was in the loin on the right, which would put it above the rack.
The Bradley was the 3rd.
THe ET 73 and the polder were about 30 degrees or more different in the beginning.  The Bradley was reading about 15 to 20 degrees different than than the ET 73. 

I think probe location in reference to the heat source and all the heat sinks (food, racks, etc.) have a major effect on what you read for a temperature.  I normaly have the ET 73 probe on top of the rack instead of below.  Since I was using the high temp screens, I had to clip it on the bottom. 

Here are some of my theories for temperature differences:
Accurracy of temp probe. - I think this is the least of all the factors considering how close most of them read around the temperature used for smoking.

Speed of the temp device to react to changes in temp.  Huge difference between the ET 73 and the Polder, with the Polder being slower.   Don't know fast the Bradley is.

Location of the probe since the temperature varies greatly from bottom to top, back to front.

Location of food

Quantity of food

Circulation of heat (no fan, obsticales of the food and racks)

Openings on the V-tray.

All of those and the reaction time of the heating element combined with the Bradley electronics contribute to some variations. 

For those tight on budget and new to the Bradley (or other smokers as they all can suffer from the same effects), even with all that seemingly bad temp control, you can put out better than competition products.  If you couldn't, you would see the rules change and they would allow the Bradley into the competitions.  Now there is an advertising niche for Bradley - Such great results, the Bradley Smoker is unfair to the competitors and is banned from competition.

The PIDs and other devices are great to have but by no means a requirement to produce a great product.

Now for the inventors:  Made a PID with four to eight temerature sensors.  Have the temperature sensors located in various locations inside the box.  Have the PID take the reading of all sensors, then average them out to produce the best possible temperature.  Adding a recirc fan controlled by the PID to even out the readings of all sensors would also be a great add on.
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Offline Habanero Smoker

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 02:19:11 am »
Gizmo;

Nice write up. I would just like to mention moisture evaporation from the food. Nearer the surface of the meat evaporation can cool the temperature as 30°F lower in the early stages of smoking/cooking.


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Offline Wildcat

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 03:50:39 am »
Gizmo;

Nice write up. I would just like to mention moisture evaporation from the food. Nearer the surface of the meat evaporation can cool the temperature as 30°F lower in the early stages of smoking/cooking.

I learned this lesson not long ago myself.  I agree with Habs - nice write up Giz.
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Offline FLBentRider

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2008, 09:06:34 am »
Now if you just had one of those thermal imaging cameras setup INSIDE the Bradley.. That would be cool! or should I say hot?
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Offline josbocc

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2008, 12:23:38 pm »
Got to agree with the other guys..., Gizmo has done his homework, and knows his electronic gadget stuff.  I have begun to wonder when we begin to take the art out of smoking, and make it a science experiment, but as long as the food comes out tasting great, who am I to question the method.

I had the thermocouple for both the PID and the et-73 just above the top rack.  No salmon on that rack, but did have the middle 4 racks full.  I understand the concept of "heat rising" so I will discount some of the difference in temps between those two units and the DBS6, but my Bradley was almost consistently off by at least 25 degrees, and more often, the 40 degree mark for the entire 8 hours.  I just find it hard to believe that there can be that much of a difference.

Love the idea of a small circulating fan to help equalize temps inside.  This would seem to help tremendously, and is the reason that I have a LEM dehydrator (with rear mounted fan and heating element) as opposed to the "Ronco special" with it's fan and heater in the base of the unit.  Drying is much more consistent with my new unit, and I would have to think that circulating the air inside a Bradley would help keep a more consistent temp, but at the same time I would be concerned about how it would effect the application of the smoke itself.

Anyways, the salmon turned out great, and therefore I'm gonna trust my PID and et-73 until something goes wrong.  Thanks for all of the feedback everyone.

Jeff
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Offline pullinpork

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 04:36:03 pm »
Hey Jeff, I recieved my PID and I am going to be doing some salmon this weekend. I still have to do a dry run with the PID to see how it works. Does the PID compensate for the preheat time or does the timer start when you turn it on?



Offline josbocc

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2008, 01:38:42 pm »
Pullin,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.  I'm fairly certain that you've probably figured this out already, and have enjoyed some freshly smoked salmon as well.

Anyway..., the PID does not accomodate for pre-heating.  Did that myself by adding an additional half hour to the first stage cooking time/temp, and then put my salmon in at the proper time.

Hope this still helps.

Jeff
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DBS6
Cabelas 80l Dehydator
All the Jerky Gadgets!!!

Offline pullinpork

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2008, 03:39:37 pm »
Thanks Jeff, yes I figured it out. I think I may have cooked it too long on the last setting (175 degrees) It had great flavor, but was a little dry. I did 1.5 hours @120 2.5 hrs @ 140 and 1 hr @ 175. Is this how you did yours? I smoked 5lbs,

Joe

Offline josbocc

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Re: Auber PID and Kummok's Salmon
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2008, 12:48:02 pm »
Pullin,

I went exactly by Kummok's recipe.  I did about 12 lbs. so I think that perhaps the volume that I had helped keep it a litte more moist.  I actually think that I could've gone a little bit longer, but I didn't want to push the issue.

Jeff
The Wood Doesn't talk back
DBS6
Cabelas 80l Dehydator
All the Jerky Gadgets!!!