Does anyone use a water-bath after smoking to bring the IT up to 152 ? Looking for a quicker way and also maybe keeping the casings from getting as dry. Eldon Cutlip suggest after smoking and an IT of 120-125 putting in a water-bath of 170* and bring the IT up to 152* which is only supposed to take 8-10 minutes for links and 25-30 for salami. If it's that quick why waste time in the smoker? Just wonder if anyone is using this method.
JD
So what do you do put it in a plastic bag with a temp probe. I've never heard of this.
Not much of an authority on the jerky subject as I have not done any yet. But I have been reading quite extensively on this, here and elsewhere, never heard of that before JD.
HR
Quote from: Quarlow on October 09, 2009, 08:45:14 PM
So what do you do put it in a plastic bag with a temp probe. I've never heard of this.
Hot Water?
JDNC
I've heard that commercial smoke houses do exactly that. Their units are designed to apply smoke, then switch to steam to finish it. It is done to speed the process up as I understand it. If I remember correctly there is some information on the process in Rytek's book but I would have to check to be sure. I believe they take the IT up to 135 degrees before they apply the steam. I have played with the idea a bit with some success. In my large smoker I tried smoking as normal until the IT of 135 then I put a hot plate in the bottom of the smoker with a large pot of water and let it go. I have only done this a couple of times and so far it does appear to speed the process time up a far bit, not as fast as the times you mentioned but it did shorten my overall time by 1 to 2 hours.
Mike
I use that method for hot dogs, but not for other sausages. For me it seems to change the texture if the sausage isn't an emulsified sausage.
There is a member that uses the technique that Mike describes, using a set up in his Bradley. I have tried it once with limited success, and will try that method again.
Steaming Sausage (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=451)
Well..I don't know how the salami will be but I was forced into the water-bath. I put in the chubs last night and set my PID for final temp at 170* after smoking. When I got up this morn I found my IT at 128* and my PID was displaying only 134* and I knew something was wrong. I found my OBS was not heating at all. I just happened to have one of the electric roasters by Toastmaster and I filled it up and preheated the water to 170*. I placed the chubs onto a rack that sits in the bottom and placed then into the water. After about 35 minutes I had a IT of 152*. Put into cold water until an IT of 140 and hung them up to bloom.
NOW..can anyone help me on the smoker problem. I posted on the OBS section of this forum but need all the help I can get. I've never had a problem with heating. My PID this morn was showing a steady green light (as it couldn't get the temp up) so I figured it was ok but I still took it out of line and connected the smoker directly to the smoke generator..but no luck. I felt the element and it was cold. The front light on the control panel of the smoker is lit and dims and brightens as you move the slide control back and forth.
Question..is the element removed from the inside by removing the little cage that surrounds it? And if so can the element be checked with a meter to determine if it is bad. And also the element terminals in the smoker are both legs hot or just one side and which side?
I have heard about this process but never tried it myself. I like my sausages now so I do not mess with the process much if at all.
On the porcelain fittings on each end there are two screws. Use a phillips screw to remove the screws (be careful not to loose the washers, then take off the reflector. Once the reflector is off, remove the fittings. Grasp the element and pull it towards you. You will need a small adjustable wrench to remove the nuts that connect the wires to the element, again being careful not to loose the washers. To reassemble reverse the steps.
Thanks, I got it out and checks bad. Now if I just order another from Bradley.
Well, before this thread dies I would like to add that I found this water-bath method in Eldon Cutlip's "Sausage & Jerky Handbook". His method is after smoking and bringing the IT to 120*-125* to remove the sausage from the smoker and submerge in a 170* water-bath until the IT reaches 152*-155* or continue cooking in the smoker until you reach these IT temp's. He states that it takes about 8-10 minutes for linked sausage or 25-30 minutes for summer or salami. As I stated above, I was some what forced into using this method due to my heat element going bad the other night. I used an electric roaster filled with water and it worked great. I placed my salami in at 170* (water temp) and in about 35 minutes the IT was at 152*. I really didn't find any problem with the taste or texture. The salami was great. I'm seriously considering using this method in the furture as it's so fast. I need to put this blasted electric roaster to some use anyway. I did notice that there seemed to be less shrinkage with this method. If someone would try this I would like to hear about the results.
JD
I have used this method alot as it speeds up the process by 4 or 5 hours! works great! I fill my turkey frier pot about 1/2 full of water on the stove and get the temp up to 170 or 180. This takes awhile so the last two batches I have put about 3 inches of water in the bottom of my turkey frier and bring it to a boil, I cut a dowl that fits across the strainer and hang 4 or 5 rings of sausage on that, I cover it with the lid while the water is boiling, it is amazing it comes up to 151 IT from 135 in about 5 to 6 minutes. I am sold on this method!
Tim,..do you mean you are really steaming the sausage? If so, that might be the easiest way. I'll try it.
thanks, JD
Yes, with just a couple inches of water in the turkey fryer, which is tall, when I put the dowel across the top the sausae hangs down but above the water by a 1/2 foot. It really works well, the steam seems to almost intantly heat the IT up.
Quote from: JDNC on October 13, 2009, 05:02:34 PM
Well, before this thread dies I would like to add that I found this water-bath method in Eldon Cutlip's "Sausage & Jerky Handbook". His method is after smoking and bringing the IT to 120*-125* to remove the sausage from the smoker and submerge in a 170* water-bath until the IT reaches 152*-155* or continue cooking in the smoker until you reach these IT temp's. He states that it takes about 8-10 minutes for linked sausage or 25-30 minutes for summer or salami. As I stated above, I was some what forced into using this method due to my heat element going bad the other night. I used an electric roaster filled with water and it worked great. I placed my salami in at 170* (water temp) and in about 35 minutes the IT was at 152*. I really didn't find any problem with the taste or texture. The salami was great. I'm seriously considering using this method in the furture as it's so fast. I need to put this blasted electric roaster to some use anyway. I did notice that there seemed to be less shrinkage with this method. If someone would try this I would like to hear about the results.
JD
Been doing hot dogs and ring bologna this way and works great. Much faster with great results IMHO!
Well I'm going to continue this method for at least the next two or three batches. Hab's advised he thought that the texture was maybe different unless the meat was emulsified. I will say.. the only sausage I've tried this way is salami in 3 1/2 fiberous casings and it was not emulsified but was ground twice using a 3/16 plate. I found the texture fine but would like to try this method with coarse ground sausage also. It's strange to me that there is not more using this method unless there is some problem that hasn't been addressed. If not..why in the world would someone wait several hours to bring IT's up, when they could be reached in only minutes? I could probably smoke two loads in a day with this method! The last linked sausage I smoked took forever (hrs) to bring IT's from 145* to 152* with a smoker temp of 165* which I finally raised to 170*. Thanks guys for the input..hope there's more.
JD
Bringing this back from the dead. Have more people started using this method? If so, care to share your experiences or set up? I'm really interested in this
I use my water bath all the time. I use if for Franks and Summer sausage with out any issues. I do not worry about the IT in the smoker I just make sure that it has the smoke level that I am looking for. I then place it in my rack which fits in my tank. My rack will hold 90 pounds of summer sausage.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/102_1761-Copy_zps78e0c1e1.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/102_1761-Copy_zps78e0c1e1.jpg.html)
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/102_1762_zps777820bf.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/102_1762_zps777820bf.jpg.html)
Now summer sausage in the rack and ready for the hot water bath. My rack will only hold 90 pounds so that is why we each only did 45 pounds.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/102_1765-Copy_zpsde812167.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/102_1765-Copy_zpsde812167.jpg.html)
Bath at 165 and up to core temp. of 155F.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/SSinthehotwaterbathtocoretemp_zps06b623d5.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/SSinthehotwaterbathtocoretemp_zps06b623d5.jpg.html)
First the German frankfurters. The pork that I purchased was trimmed rather lean this time which makes my wife happy as she does not like a lot of fat in the sausage.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/106_1783_zps1d354a66.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/106_1783_zps1d354a66.jpg.html)
And now the summer sausage.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/134_1781_zps2340ad6e.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/STEVE%20FTATAU%20SAUSAGE/134_1781_zps2340ad6e.jpg.html)
Notice that the fat near the edges show no sign of fat out. The sausage is moist and not edge dried. Do not let your bath get over 170 and make sure that there is some way to circulate or stir the water
Since this has been dug back up I might as well throw my questions out there. Is that water bath a homemade tub? I was curious if anyone uses the big turkey fryer pot with decent results? I would like to try this when I get around to making some sausage but not sure just how to go about it yet.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
That is another sweet setup you've come up with Kirby and those sausages look great.
My tank is home made. I had a sheet metal shop shear and break the parts. I welded them together and added the drain. The tank sits on a three burner stove. I have a PID temp controller on the way. I am going to control the burners with the PID. I will use a solenoid valve which will be hooked up to the controller and control the main propane line. I plumb a bypass around the solenoid with a needle valve installed in that bypass. This way I can set a low fire mode and a high fire mode. We have a shop in town that has large aluminum stock pots for sale. I checked the prices and they are
32 QT 49.00 12" tall
40 QT 59.00 13" tall
52 QT 69.00 15" tall
60 QT 79.00 16" tall
80 QT 89.00 16 tall
100 QT 99.00 17" tall
He also has heavy cast burners $34.00
When they are put on that burner they will heat fast and be more stable then some of the lighter turkey fryers.
What kind of time does it take to get to the IT you want with 90lbs of meat? I'm looking at buying an immersion circulator (http://anovaculinary.com) but it says a maximum of six gallons. I'm worried about how many sausages (2"x19") I could get in a container, how much room I need around them to get proper circulation, and if this way is really that much faster.
When I first drop the sausage frame full of sausage in the tank I will see about a 10 F drop but with the three large burners I can recover the water temp in about 10 minutes. I try very hard to keep the water around 160-165F It usually takes around 30-40 minutes in the tank to get the 90 pounds of sausage from a little over 115F[out of the smoker] to 155 F I then hold it a 155 for around 10 minutes. I will turn off the heat as the sausage gets close to 155 and will add a little cold water to hold the water temp at 160-165. Having my PID controller hooked up to the propane supply will help me keep from over heating the water. I will do a few test runs with the system before I gamble that much meat in the tank. My sausage frame keeps the sausage from laying on top of each other and they only touch on their sides. My pumps crank out lots of water so circulation is not an issue. I made the pumps out of motors from a couple of crapped out vacuum sealers. The pumps consist of some stainless shafts hooked to some large model boat props. inside the tubes that you see on the tank. We served sausage and crackers for hors-d'oeuvres on New Years eve and our guest loved it. Here is a short video of the tank running.
http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/SAUSAGE%20CURING%20TANK/100_7335.mp4.html
Kirby
I have used a roaster that you can set the water temp to 175 and higher. I set it for 175 and stir the water then take a temp reading. It will take an hour or more to gt to this temp. When water hits 160 I put the sausage in after it is done with the smoke stage. I have done summer and sticks. What I don't like about the stick is it seems the casings peel away. Not sure if I am doing it wrong or not. Would like to do my sticks this way but just don't like the casings peeling back. For summer sausage it works great. Usually do a 10# batch and it takes about 20 minutes to get to temp.
I have not tried this yet but I think it would work. Get a small thermometer and insert it in one meat stick the package the thermometer and the meat sticks in a vacuum seal bag and put the whole thing in your roaster. you will need to weight it down but you should be able to read the temperature and the sticks will get the affect of being in water but they will never touch the water. I don't know if anyone has tried this but I would be cereous if it worked.
Kirby
Kirby,
My guess would be that the sticks on the outer part of the package would cook faster than the ones in the center of the package. It might cause the outer sticks to fat out before the inner ones were up to temp. Just a guess.
I would lay them out flat so that there was no outside. If you take the rolls of vacuum sealer material you could make the bag as long as you wanted to make them. Then when you lay them flat on the table as you vacuum they should be just be a flat sheet of meat sticks. They would not be bunched up. If your water does not exceed 160 you will not suffer fat out. The key to success with this process would be to make sure you have water circulation. Turkey roasters can make very hot water next to the walls that are very hot. This is why my water tank has some killer water circulation. I have seen a video where the company made hot dogs by showering them with hot smoke water. They travel through a chamber with a continuous shower of hot smoke water.
Kirby
Quote from: dirt1008 on January 01, 2014, 06:04:33 PM
What kind of time does it take to get to the IT you want with 90lbs of meat? I'm looking at buying an immersion circulator (http://anovaculinary.com) but it says a maximum of six gallons. I'm worried about how many sausages (2"x19") I could get in a container, how much room I need around them to get proper circulation, and if this way is really that much faster.
Hey dirt, I am starting to think that with the immersion circulator it would be better to get a tall pot like container instead of a low basin type container. That way the chubs would stand up instead of laying on top of each other. I have an old wine juice pail (5gals) that I am going to try on my next batch of sausages.
This is where I am headed for smaller batches. They just delivered my PID and this is the system I am going to control with it. I have both the 100 QT pot [17" tall] and I have the burner. I just need to get it together. I think you could put dowels across the top to hang the sausage from. I will put one of my pumps on the side to spin the water.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/61c-1hGkRoL_SL1500_1-Copy_zps9b4877be.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/61c-1hGkRoL_SL1500_1-Copy_zps9b4877be.jpg.html)
and a heavy burner.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/330973_700x7001_zps9b54b3f5.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/330973_700x7001_zps9b54b3f5.jpg.html)
Quote from: pikeman_95 on January 02, 2014, 05:42:09 PM
This is where I am headed for smaller batches. They just delivered my PID and this is the system I am going to control with it. I have both the 100 QT pot [17" tall] and I have the burner. I just need to get it together. I think you could put dowels across the top to hang the sausage from. I will put one of my pumps on the side to spin the water.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/61c-1hGkRoL_SL1500_1-Copy_zps9b4877be.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/61c-1hGkRoL_SL1500_1-Copy_zps9b4877be.jpg.html)
and a heavy burner.
(http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad274/pikeman_95/330973_700x7001_zps9b54b3f5.jpg~original) (http://s943.photobucket.com/user/pikeman_95/media/330973_700x7001_zps9b54b3f5.jpg.html)
Hey! Turkey fryer pot! I have one at the lake. Great Idea.
that's the idea I am just going to go a little further and get PID control hooked up. I get busy when I am smoking and finishing things in the hot water bath and I want to have it take care of itself. You sure can screw up some sausage by letting it get too hot.
Like Kirby said a large turkey fryer style pot or stock pot works perfectly. I use a cooling rack on the bottom of the pot to keep the sausage from touching it and to allow the water to move around. I simply move the sausage around a bit during the process with one of the sausage sticks as demonstrated by my lovely assistant below (my Brother-in-law) ;D .
The water bath setup works very well. I usually do about 80 to 100 lb batches in my big smoker. Overall I would say it shaves off about 4 hours of time per load. I start my smoke as normal, run for about an hour at 130 to dry the casings, next I start my smoke (I like about 2 hours) and begin to ramp the temp up at about 10 degrees per hour to a max of 160 or 165. When the smoke is complete (sausage has been in a total time of 4 hours now) I am not that concerned about internal temp as I am about getting that nice mahogany color on the sausage. If they look good I pull them out of the smoker and into the hot water bath. If they are not the color I want I may let them go up to another hour. typically when I pull the sausage from the smoker the IT is around 130 or 132. For a hot water bath I use a propane burner and a 64 qt stock pot. I put about 10 gal of water in it and crank it on high until it reaches 160 degrees, then dial it back to an idle and it will maintain it perfectly at about 160 degrees with very little adjustment. I can get about 30 lbs of sausage at a time in it. Normally, if I finish my sausage in the smoker I like to take the sausage IT up to 152 degrees. When I use the hot water bath method I take it up to 155 degrees simply because it rises much quicker. With average size load in this setup it takes me about 15 to 20 minutes in the hot water bath which is a savings of about 4 hours in the smoker.
On a side note if you try the hat water bath method don't panic when you see the beautiful mahogany color disappear on the sausage after a few minutes. It re-appears during the blooming process. I like to bloom mine for at least 2 hours.
Here's a few pictures of my setup...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-IMG_1011.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-photo6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-IMG_0734.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/IMG_2456_800x600_zps44537323.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/IMG_2459_800x600_zpsc17146a0.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-IMG_1984.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-IMG_1989.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-IMG_0754.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/mmike/Fishing%20Photos/mini-IMG_1136.jpg)
Mike
Quote from: renoman on January 02, 2014, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: dirt1008 on January 01, 2014, 06:04:33 PM
What kind of time does it take to get to the IT you want with 90lbs of meat? I'm looking at buying an immersion circulator (http://anovaculinary.com) but it says a maximum of six gallons. I'm worried about how many sausages (2"x19") I could get in a container, how much room I need around them to get proper circulation, and if this way is really that much faster.
Hey dirt, I am starting to think that with the immersion circulator it would be better to get a tall pot like container instead of a low basin type container. That way the chubs would stand up instead of laying on top of each other. I have an old wine juice pail (5gals) that I am going to try on my next batch of sausages.
Are you going to try and hang them, or just stick them in standing up? How tightly do you think you can get away with and still have enough circulation around the chubs? I have a turkey fryer I could pull out and use! I'm excited
Quote from: dirt1008 on January 03, 2014, 06:36:56 AM
Quote from: renoman on January 02, 2014, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: dirt1008 on January 01, 2014, 06:04:33 PM
What kind of time does it take to get to the IT you want with 90lbs of meat? I'm looking at buying an immersion circulator (http://anovaculinary.com) but it says a maximum of six gallons. I'm worried about how many sausages (2"x19") I could get in a container, how much room I need around them to get proper circulation, and if this way is really that much faster.
Hey dirt, I am starting to think that with the immersion circulator it would be better to get a tall pot like container instead of a low basin type container. That way the chubs would stand up instead of laying on top of each other. I have an old wine juice pail (5gals) that I am going to try on my next batch of sausages.
Are you going to try and hang them, or just stick them in standing up? How tightly do you think you can get away with and still have enough circulation around the chubs? I have a turkey fryer I could pull out and use! I'm excited
I don't think I would hang them and I wouldn't worry about the circulation That Anova circulator really stirs up the water. It has a small propeller on the bottom under the heating element.
Appreciate the help renoman