This is my first run with the Bradley smoke generator attached to my propane smoker. It has been running for about an hour now and the cabinet does not seam to be filling with smoke. I seam to have a lot of smoke exiting around the smoke generator adaptor plate. Inside the smoker cabinet I have a pan of liquid that is right below the opening for the smoke adaptor. The cabinet has three vents on it two low and one on the top. Below are some pictures of my set up. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_DSC02498.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=DSC02498.jpg)
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_DSC02498.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=DSC02498.jpg)
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_DSC02503.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=DSC02503.jpg)
Is the top vent open on your propane smoker to create a updraft?
I have tried the top vent open between 1/4 and 1/2 way open with no change at either setting. Should I close the bottom vents some near the burner so it will try and draw air from the smoke inlet?
Mark
I think closing down the lower vents should help. It's sure worth a try.
I'm only guessing but it looks like you will only get smoke into the upper half of your smoker. If so, and I know it would be a lot of work, you could try lowering where you have the smoke generator attached to the smoker.
I have to admit, I am guessing as well but I would go with the idea of shutting the lower vent and forcing the air draw to come from the cold smoke box.
I have closed down the lower vents. So the burner should draw air from around the vents around its housing and thru the smoke generator adaptor box. Well see if this works.
I was not to concerned about were the smoke tube was entering the box since all of the food would be above this point. I guess I will figure it out the more I use it. I was just hoping that this would have been a home run from the start based on other smoke generator adaptors I have seen in the forum.
If this does not work out I guess I can go to plan B and make an extension like Iceman did. Here is the link to his thread.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=4707.0
Mark
I think with the lower vents closed it is helping pull air thru the smoke generator. I guess the end product will tell.
One question I have is it normal to have a smoke leakage at the adaptor plate for the smoke generator? Do I need to try and seal this off better?
Mark
You shouldn't need to seal it Mark.
Do you have the heat on in your smoker?
It sounds like the draw is still a little weak.
I do have the heat on. But on a day like this (6 deg. outside) and since the cooking box is uninsulated it is working hard to keep the temp up to 200 deg. inside.
I will keep working with it. If I still have problems I am thinking about adding a fan before the PVC elbow to help pull the smoke into the cooking box.
Mark
It looks like your unit is in a garage, if that's the case you're probably not getting any air flow over your top vent to help draw the smoke out. You need a cross wind (or a fan) to act as a venturi and suck the smoke out.
Kevin, I currently have it outside. The pictures were from the other day when I finished adapting the smoke generator to the cooking box. When I place my hand over the top vent I can feel the up draft against the palm of my hand.
Mark
A couple other ideas Mark.
Does your smoker have any openings on the bottom as is a gas smoker?
And does the door have a seal on it?
Hmm - it seems that if you are not getting any leaking out anywhere, that maybe you might be expecting to see more smoke than is actually being generated. It doesn't really smoke like the inside of a burning building, it just kind of floats around in the chamber. Within a few seconds of opening the door my smoke will empty out and the cabinet will look like there is no smoke in there. Could that be what's happening?
Close the bottom vents, open top vent and remove the liquid from the pan.
HawkeyeSmokes - There is some openings on the bottom for the burner to draw air for the flame. And the door does not have a seal.
Kevin - I might be expecting more smoke that what it is producing. I was getting more smoke with my original set up with wood chips in the cast iron box that was over the burner. The down side to my original set up was I had to open the door every hour to add more wood chips. I wanted to go with this Bradley set up reduce my maintenance, keep from opening the door, and do cold smoking.
NePaSmoker - Why are you suggesting I remove the liquid from the pan?
Mark
I think the key comment he made was "I seam to have a lot of smoke exiting around the smoke generator adaptor plate." which is a clear sign the tower is not drawing the smoke in from the cold smoke attachment. I think the rest of the guys have you going in the right direction. On my large home built smoker I have a top vent only, the smoke generator vents provide adequate intake air to create the draft to keep the smoke from backing up through the generator. I would close your bottom vents.
Hawkeye has another interesting thought as well regarding the propane burner itself. Is the burner and/or the burner's fresh air supply open to the interior of the smoker?
Mike
Quote from: mbetz on January 01, 2010, 08:05:29 AM
HawkeyeSmokes - There is some openings on the bottom for the burner to draw air for the flame. And the door does not have a seal.
Kevin - I might be expecting more smoke that what it is producing. I was getting more smoke with my original set up with wood chips in the cast iron box that was over the burner. The down side to my original set up was I had to open the door every hour to add more wood chips. I wanted to go with this Bradley set up reduce my maintenance, keep from opening the door, and do cold smoking.
NePaSmoker - Why are you suggesting I remove the liquid from the pan?
Mark
With water in the pan the puck slide will generate enough heat to warm the water, thus create a small amount of steam which will hold the smoke down. Leave the pan there to catch the pucks without the water. The spent pucks will still smoke and add that much more smoke to the smoker.
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:07:51 AM
I think the key comment he made was "I seam to have a lot of smoke exiting around the smoke generator adaptor plate." which is a clear sign the tower is not drawing the smoke in from the cold smoke attachment. I think the rest of the guys have you going in the right direction. On my large home built smoker I have a top vent only, the smoke generator vents provide adequate intake air to create the draft to keep the smoke from backing up through the generator. I would close your bottom vents.
Hawkeye has another interesting thought as well regarding the propane burner itself. Is the burner and/or the burner's fresh air supply open to the interior of the smoker?
Mike
Yea, but they all leak at that point. I can't imagine it billowing out there and none getting in the cabinet unless it's totally disconnected.
I use the longer smoke tube, works better for a natural draw.
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/stlthy1/DSCF5275.jpg)
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on January 01, 2010, 08:13:37 AM
I use the longer smoke tube, works better for a natural draw.
That makes sense, mine is longer too.
Mark, my thought about the extra opening and door seal would be that the draft to the smoke generator is to weak. It's going to draw from the path of least resistance.
I think adding a seal to the door should help some. Don't have a good suggestion about the bottom openings. You need to maintain an air supply for the gas burner.
The longer tube like Nepas posted sounds it might help also.
When you closed the bottom vents what was the result?
I have to admit I do exactly what NePas is suggesting. I have mine setup in a permanent cold smoke setup in my heated garage. I have found in a normal Bradley setup the tower heating element is right beside the puck burner and appears to assist in burning the pucks. When you setup in a cold smoke the smoke generator no longer has the assistance of the main heating element. I have found that by leaving the bowl empty provides more smoke.
Mike
Another thing is my plate to the bradley has like a magnet around it to seal.
Mike has you covered too.
Quote from: KevinG on January 01, 2010, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:07:51 AM
I think the key comment he made was "I seam to have a lot of smoke exiting around the smoke generator adaptor plate." which is a clear sign the tower is not drawing the smoke in from the cold smoke attachment. I think the rest of the guys have you going in the right direction. On my large home built smoker I have a top vent only, the smoke generator vents provide adequate intake air to create the draft to keep the smoke from backing up through the generator. I would close your bottom vents.
Hawkeye has another interesting thought as well regarding the propane burner itself. Is the burner and/or the burner's fresh air supply open to the interior of the smoker?
Mike
Yea, but they all leak at that point. I can't imagine it billowing out there and none getting in the cabinet unless it's totally disconnected.
The idea is to draw the air in at that point and not exhaust it there. To do that you require enough draw to pull the smoke out the top of the smoker. Any smoke that backs up into the smoke generator is a bad thing as it will build up smoke residue creating problems down the road.
Mike
Yep, that's why I originally thought it was inside & he needed a fan to help draw it out. It definitely seems like a flow problem, either lack of draw or too sharp an angle on the bend making it want to sit there instead of move into the chamber.
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: KevinG on January 01, 2010, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:07:51 AM
I think the key comment he made was "I seam to have a lot of smoke exiting around the smoke generator adaptor plate." which is a clear sign the tower is not drawing the smoke in from the cold smoke attachment. I think the rest of the guys have you going in the right direction. On my large home built smoker I have a top vent only, the smoke generator vents provide adequate intake air to create the draft to keep the smoke from backing up through the generator. I would close your bottom vents.
Hawkeye has another interesting thought as well regarding the propane burner itself. Is the burner and/or the burner's fresh air supply open to the interior of the smoker?
Mike
Yea, but they all leak at that point. I can't imagine it billowing out there and none getting in the cabinet unless it's totally disconnected.
The idea is to draw the air in at that point and not exhaust it there. To do that you require enough draw to pull the smoke out the top of the smoker. Any smoke that backs up into the smoke generator is a bad thing as it will build up smoke residue creating problems down the road.
Mike
That's my feelings to Mike.
Using a longer tube should help some, but I think he needs to close up some of those other opening so more of the draft is going through the smoke generator.
Quote from: KevinG on January 01, 2010, 08:26:07 AM
Yep, that's why I originally thought it was inside & he needed a fan to help draw it out. It definitely seems like a flow problem, either lack of draw or too sharp an angle on the bend making it want to sit there instead of move into the chamber.
I don't think the fan is going to work. Mark is having trouble maintaining heat now and a fan will only make is worse.
Mark
Are you running the propane burner while you are doing these tests?
Mike
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: KevinG on January 01, 2010, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 08:07:51 AM
I think the key comment he made was "I seam to have a lot of smoke exiting around the smoke generator adaptor plate." which is a clear sign the tower is not drawing the smoke in from the cold smoke attachment. I think the rest of the guys have you going in the right direction. On my large home built smoker I have a top vent only, the smoke generator vents provide adequate intake air to create the draft to keep the smoke from backing up through the generator. I would close your bottom vents.
Hawkeye has another interesting thought as well regarding the propane burner itself. Is the burner and/or the burner's fresh air supply open to the interior of the smoker?
Mike
Yea, but they all leak at that point. I can't imagine it billowing out there and none getting in the cabinet unless it's totally disconnected.
The idea is to draw the air in at that point and not exhaust it there. To do that you require enough draw to pull the smoke out the top of the smoker. Any smoke that backs up into the smoke generator is a bad thing as it will build up smoke residue creating problems down the road.
Mike
I was thinking the same about the elbow.
Mike, he did have the heat on for this.
I do have the heat on. I think I will have to do some more tinkering. When you all have mentioned going to a longer tube are you talking about a longer vertical run?
Also Do you think if I went with two 45 deg. elbows and get rid of the 90 it would help?
I have removed the water from the puck pan. It makes sense that this would create more smoke.
Thanks for all of your help. This is what make this forum so great.
Mark
I don't think the elbow would be much of a restriction for it. It could simply be that the ambient temps are so cold (like it is here today -43) and the connector pipe is staying cold enough to not allow the heat from the puck burner plate to create the draw required to move the smoke in an upwards direction. Kind of an air lock so to speak.
Mike
Mike - So you think I might just want to be patient and wait for a warmer day do give it anouther try before modifying too much? where not as bad here in the middle of Illinois. It is 9deg right now with out the wind chill.
Mark
Mark
Certainly if your intent is to use it at cooler temps you will have to resolve it at some point in time. I know I would. ::)
To try and prove the theory I was trying to think if some way of providing some additional heat to the connector pipe. Maybe a hairdryer blowing on the outside of it? Not that this would be a solution, just more of a test try and figure out exactly what the problem is.
I noticed back on the first page you referenced one of Iceman's setups (and he has some awesome setups), certainly that method would be a solution because the smoke is already in the cabinet so to speak.
Mike
An idea just came to me that might work. Right now I have a water pan above the propane burner that is currently allowing the heat flow to go around it on all sides. What if I made a baffle at the top of the water pan that would be open just below the opening that is connected to the smoke adapter box. My thinking that the up current from the heat past the opening would create more of a draw to pull the smoke from the adapter box.
I could also use some duct insulation around the elbow to keep it from cooling to much while in transit.
Mark
Quote from: mbetz on January 01, 2010, 09:29:52 AM
An idea just came to me that might work. Right now I have a water pan above the propane burner that is currently allowing the heat flow to go around it on all sides. What if I made a baffle at the top of the water pan that would be open just below the opening that is connected to the smoke adapter box. My thinking that the up current from the heat past the opening would create more of a draw to pull the smoke from the adapter box.
I could also use some duct insulation around the elbow to keep it from cooling to much while in transit.
Mark
I'm not quite following the baffle idea you have... I can't seem to get the mental picture...
So to recap... right now you are running the propane burner, trying to maintain a 200 degree tower temp, top vent is open, bottom vents are closed, and the smoke generator is running.
Is there still smoke backing up and out the smoke generator?
The insulation idea on the pipe may help, you could just wrap an old towel around it to see if it helps.
Mike
The smoke is not coming out thru the louvers in the generator housing is it coming out were the generator interfaces with he metal adaptor plate that comes with it. Is that what you still consider backing up into the smoke generator?
My thought for the baffle was to direct the heat convection in front of the opening from the pipe connecting he smoke generator to the cooking box to get more flow past the opening to create more of a draw or venture action to pull the smoke from the adapter box.
It may work or it may not but it sounds like it should. I will have to try and test it.
Quote from: mbetz on January 01, 2010, 10:18:10 AM
The smoke is not coming out thru the louvers in the generator housing is it coming out were the generator interfaces with he metal adaptor plate that comes with it. Is that what you still consider backing up into the smoke generator?
My thought for the baffle was to direct the heat convection in front of the opening from the pipe connecting he smoke generator to the cooking box to get more flow past the opening to create more of a draw or venture action to pull the smoke from the adapter box.
It may work or it may not but it sounds like it should. I will have to try and test it.
Yes, I would consider it still backing up if you see smoke coming out between the generator and the adapter plate.
You idea regarding the baffle certainly won't hurt to try for sure.
How open do you have the top vent?
Mike
The top vent is about 50% open.
Try opening it all the way and see if it helps.
Yup I agree with Hawkeye, even though I realize your trying to maintain temps in your tower, I would still try it to see if it helps.
Here is a post some time ago by Iceman regarding the damage that can be done to the generator by allowing the smoke to continuously back up.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=5192.0
Mike
I opened the top vent all of the way open and it seams to have stopped most all of the smoke from backing up into the generator. When the wind blow across the top of the tower you can tell it creates a good draw. When it stops you see the smoke back up again. It looks like I need to do some rethinking on my set up before I use the generator again.
I hope I did not ruin it on my first run with it.
I wouldn't think you damaged it. They are pretty simple to take appart and clean and once you get it dialed in you may want to do that.
About what size vent is the top vent?
Mike
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
I wouldn't think you damaged it. They are pretty simple to take appart and clean and once you get it dialed in you may want to do that.
About what size vent is the top vent?
Mike
Agree with Mike here.
I also was thinking that if you have a short piece of vent or stove pipe, try setting it over your top vent. It might help increase the draft enough to help.
Quote from: HawkeyeSmokes on January 01, 2010, 11:02:04 AM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
I wouldn't think you damaged it. They are pretty simple to take appart and clean and once you get it dialed in you may want to do that.
About what size vent is the top vent?
Mike
Agree with Mike here.
I also was thinking that if you have a short piece of vent or stove pipe, try setting it over your top vent. It might help increase the draft enough to help.
I was thinking the same thing Hawkeye, you could use a short piece of PVC pipe or a juice can or something like that. It also stops any wind from blowing directly into the tower.
Mike
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 11:06:56 AM
Quote from: HawkeyeSmokes on January 01, 2010, 11:02:04 AM
Quote from: Mr Walleye on January 01, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
I wouldn't think you damaged it. They are pretty simple to take appart and clean and once you get it dialed in you may want to do that.
About what size vent is the top vent?
Mike
Agree with Mike here.
I also was thinking that if you have a short piece of vent or stove pipe, try setting it over your top vent. It might help increase the draft enough to help.
I was thinking the same thing Hawkeye, you could use a short piece of PVC pipe or a juice can or something like that. It also stops any wind from blowing directly into the tower.
Mike
My one concern is will it maintain temp? I'm still wondering if Mark should try closing off the bottom of the smoker a bit. Kind of think it would be a try.
Mike, the top vent is a 5" dia. butterfly vent.
Hawkeye, I have a piece of 6" HVAC round duct I could try if I can find it in time.
Hahaha... I just had this visual of poor Mark running around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to try all the different tests we come up with for him. :D
Sorry Mark!
Hawkeye... Your idea of slowing down the amount of air being drawn in by the burner is worth a shot. Providing the burner still functions correctly the restriction would cause the draft to draw more air from the cold smoke setup.
Mike
Your right Mike! We did kind of toss a lot of things at him.
Let's hope it helps him out. ;D
I will give that a try the next time I use the smoker out. I think I will be able to get some sheet metal in were the vents are around the burner and make them so they can slide so I can adjust them as needed.
Mike or Hawkeye, do you have any suggestions for when I clean the generator after this use?
Not much running at all. I am sitting at the kitchen table and the smoker is right outside the door about 5ft away from me. I appreciate all of the help. I really did not think I would have this much trouble pulling the smoke out of the box since I was using 4" pipe to connect it to the cooking box.
Mark
Mark, here's a link to cleaning it. Cleaning the Smoke Generator (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showpost.php?p=987&postcount=41)
I have only needed to clean the ramp going to the puck burner on mine so far.
Well I think I have a new learning curve with my smoker again.
This picture is what my pork loin looked like before I adapted my smoker with the Bradley smoke generator.
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/th_57128bb9.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/?action=view¤t=57128bb9.jpg)
Well today it did not turn out like that. It ended being stringy so I pulled it apart and am going to make some BBQ pulled pork out of it. Also I think my thermometer failed me today. I think the temperature in the smoker ended up being higher than it was telling me. I guess it had to happen some time. I have been using this smoker for about 5 years now.
Thanks for everyones help today. I have a lot to think about. Till I get my draft issues resolved I am going to go back to my old way to create smoke in this smoker.
M, I have just one thought to run past everyone. I was looking at your pics to see if something was awry and I noticed that your pipe is over from the end of the SG. The cold box I made for cheese was set up with the pipe right over the end of the puck burner. My thinking is that maybe if yours was right over top of the burner the heat from it would help the draft via the hot air rising. I know I had all kinds of smoke when I used the cold box. Just a thought, but really it should get a draft going no matter where the pipe is. I also think you should seal the door as it maybe not enough leakage to allow smoke out but it may just be enough to keep it from getting the proper draft.
The door currently does not have a seal on it. This is something I am going to look into before using the SG again.
As you can see the end of the adapter tube that is guarding the heater plate is pretty much right at the opening of the 4" tube.
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_DSC02129.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=DSC02129.jpg)
Today has left me with several ideas I want to try out. I think that my biggest let down of the day was my temperature gauge. I think I over cooked the meat. I don't know if it was the gauge or the cold temperature cooling off my gauge in the door giving me a false reading.
Thanks,
Mark
Ok that pic shows it better. It is fine right there.
Here is a little update for everyone that followed along or helped last week. I have tried mounting the smoke generator directly to the cooking tower. This produced better results as long as the propane burner was not on. As soon as I started the propane burner the smoke immediately backed up into the smoke generator. Here are some pictures of what the adapter plate and the inside of my cooking tower looks like with my second try.
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_IMG_0588.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=IMG_0588.jpg)
Inside of the cooking tower, inside of the adapter plate, water pan, old castiron wood chip box, and the propane burner is under the castiron box.
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_IMG_0589.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=IMG_0589.jpg)
closer view.
(http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/th_IMG_0590.jpg) (http://s801.photobucket.com/albums/yy298/m-betz/Smoker%20adapter%20box/?action=view¤t=IMG_0590.jpg)
Outside view of box and adapter plate.
Sorry for the rotation of the pictures. They will not stay rotated after I adjust them.
Since my second try was not a success I have talked with Brian at Bradley. He thinks that were I am introducing the smoke into my cooking tower is too high. He wants me to raise my cooking tower and introduce the smoke at the lower vent on that side. He thinks that at the higher position the heat is taking the path of least resistance out thru the smoke generator. Brian believes that by introducing the smoke at a lower position it should get pulled out of the cold smoke adapter box.
I will keep everyone posted on how Brian's suggestion worked.
Mark
Are you opening the lower vent or closing it?
If it is open, that might contribute to the problem as the air intake to the tower should be through the generator.
I have closed the lower vents with no change in the results. All it did was starve my propane burner.
Mark
One thing you could try Mark is to turn the burner on first and preheat the smoker. Then try starting the smoke generator after you have created a good strong updraft.
The shot of your adaptor plate shows allot of heat and smoke escaping from the smoker.