Bought one of these little babies a few months ago & bought a holosight for it yesterday. Mounted it last night & went to the range to sight it in this morning.
(http://www.waltherclearinghouse.com/waltherpics/Walther_G22.jpg)
It's a bullpup design, so the barrel seems effectively short. Firing from the bench, I had the bottom of the pistol grip based on the bench & was solidifiying it in place by wrapping my left index finger through the front sight pillars.
Well, just about the time I get to the last sight adjustment, I started to fire a 5-shot group. I inadvertantly positioned my finger around the front of the front sight pillar, and basically shot myself in the finger.[:(!]
Nothing some disenfectant and a bandage won't heal, but my pride is gonna take a lot longer.
I have been around guns since I was 5. I have been schooled in and preached gun safety my entire life. If my father were alive, I'd be the first 40 year old guy you ever heard of getting a spankin'. (And not paying for it![;)][:D])
Safety, safety, safety!!!! Can't be said enough.
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch243.gif)
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
http://rminor.com
OOOOUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!! . . . at least you can count on Olds to be both concerned and supportive [;)]
John
Newton MA
thats a fine looking crossbow chezz...
are you getting ready for the bristol renaissance faire...
http://www.renfair.com/bristol
(http://renfair.com/socal/common/random_image/images3/socal0024h.jpg)
(http://www.renfair.com/bristol/media/2004/04_media_interact.jpg)
more later...
owrstrich
Looking at this lady in your picture owrstrich reminds me of the Baroque period... Has anyone every had the chance to see paintings from that time ??? They are characteristic of a style in art and architecture that was developed in Europe from the early 17th to mid-18th century, emphasizing dramatic, often strained effect and typified by bold, curving forms, elaborate ornamentation, and overall balance of disparate parts.
The beauty of the women in "Baroque" painting transcends the bounds of sexual desire... Ah the warmth, the softness, the purity of the Baroque period IMO has never been attained before or since...in any painting from any time-line that I know of. If I could have picked a time to live it would be without a doubt that period of history.
(http://www.bestpriceart.com/thumb/150x150/carracc6.jpg)
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
http://rminor.com
At least it wasn't your trigger finger [:D].
Hey Kirk,
Sorry to hear about your mishap. Don't be too hard on your self, We all do dumb things. It was just your turn![:D]
<i><font color="blue"><b>Jack</i></font id="blue"></b>
Ever notice these things generally only happen once? I bet you don't do that again. How much for the Rifle? I assume its for sale. [:D][;)]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Oldman</i>
<br />Looking at this lady in your picture owrstrich reminds me of the Baroque period... Has anyone every had the chance to see paintings from that time ??? They are characteristic of a style in art and architecture that was developed in Europe from the early 17th to mid-18th century, emphasizing dramatic, often strained effect and typified by bold, curving forms, elaborate ornamentation, and overall balance of disparate parts.
The beauty of the women in "Baroque" painting transcends the bounds of sexual desire... Ah the warmth, the softness, the purity of the Baroque period IMO has never been attained before or since...in any painting from any time-line that I know of. If I could have picked a time to live it would be without a doubt that period of history.
(http://www.bestpriceart.com/thumb/150x150/carracc6.jpg)
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
http://rminor.com
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No wonder you're a Millenium Member, Olds! You've added a touch of class to our Forum. And you think statistics are fancy [;)][:D][;)]
John
Newton MA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If my father were alive, I'd be the first 40 year old guy you ever heard of getting a spankin'. (And not paying for it!)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Had to laugh when I saw that--I could feel the ghost of my fathers hunting boot on my 3rd point of contact. One of my favourite hunting memories is my dad forcing me at age 12 to strip down and go for a swim in a Northern Alberta slough to fetch a mallard that I shot. November with a crust of ice around the shore.[:0] You only have to do that once before you're damn careful where you put a bird down. [:D]
Tom
Kirk,
This little accident reminds me of one of my employees story of what his Dad did to himself (an Arkansas State Trooper). Well he bought himself a 50 cal single shot monster gun, I'm sure you know the type, by-pod----scope---the whole deal. His first time shooting it he gets down in the prone position and squeezes one off. No body told him that you don't rest your eye on the scope when you fire the thing. Needless to say he has a good reminder in the mirror of his first shot.
And Olds,
As I get a bit older, beauty does mean a lot more is certainly different that what it use to be in my testosterone laden days.
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/files/mallardwacker/peta-sucks.gif)
SmokeOn,
(http://www.azbbqa.com/forum/phpbb2/images/avatars/gallery/AZBBQA/mallardsmall.gif)
mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie
If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...
Well if we are telling war stories I got two short ones.
My Step father was cleaning his shot gun on the kitchen table. In those days we lived in a single wide trailer. As he wiped the trigger he blew a hole clean through the trailer roof.
<b>Rule #1</b> Empty gun before cleaning.
During that same period of time my brother and myself were reloading our own shot-gun shells. (Ages 10-11) Well my brother *cough* reloaded some of mine. Well my Step father and myself were in a floating duck blind. As I went to shoot this duck the next thing I know is the only thing I have left of my gun was the wood piece from under the barrel in my left hand, and the trigger section in my right hand.
<b>Rule #2</b> Never allow anyone to reload your ammo.
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
http://rminor.com
<b>Rule #3</b>
Never try to whack a squirrel with the butt of your rifle if (it may be) loaded. Not my personal rule, but I got that one from a cousin of my Dad's.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/whitetailfan/wtbuck.bmp)
<font color="green">whitetailfan</font id="green">
"Nice Rack"
Lethbridge, AB
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by whitetailfan</i>
<br /><b>Rule #3</b>
Never try to whack a squirrel with the butt of your rifle if (it may be) loaded. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">LOL[:D] That is sounding too much like Perry County Arkansa agian.....
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/files/mallardwacker/peta-sucks.gif)
SmokeOn,
(http://www.azbbqa.com/forum/phpbb2/images/avatars/gallery/AZBBQA/mallardsmall.gif)
mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie
If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...
My brother who is in law enforcement once bought a small 25 auto. First time he shot it his hand was to far up the grip and the action tore two grooves in the meat of his hand[;)]. Glad yall reminded me I'll rib hiom the next time I see him.
Kirk: Good thing its only a paint ball gun[:D][}:)][:D].
Jeff
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/Jeff100/shopping.gif)
(//www.bbqshopping.com)
Some say BBQ is in your blood, if thats true my blood must be BBQ sauce.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Oldman</i>
<br />If I could have picked a time to live it would be without a doubt that period of history.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Olds,
I know what you're saying about the beauty & all, but there's one word that sums it up for me to not agree.
Dentistry![:D]
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by owrstrich</i>
<br />are you getting ready for the bristol renaissance faire...
(http://www.renfair.com/bristol/media/2004/04_media_interact.jpg)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You gonna wear that to Indy?[:D][:D]
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Phone Guy</i>
<br />Ever notice these things generally only happen once? I bet you don't do that again. How much for the Rifle? I assume its for sale. [:D][;)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
[:D][:D][:D]
Nope, just hastens the priority to get it threaded for a supressor, that'll extend the "danger zone" by 4 or 5 inches.
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
While we're on the subject:
I used to shoot at a week-long match put on by the folks who invented body armor (Second Chance). Basically, they had different contests for shooting bowling pins with handguns, rifles, shotguns & machineguns. It was a hoot.
In any contest, everyone has a unique theory on how to win. The basic rule of thumb with the main event, shot with .45 autos, was that your cartridge load had to equal 200,000 (bullet weight times velocity). We generally shot 235gr SJHP at about 950fps.
There was a well respected, long time shooter that decided to test his theory that a far heavier bullet at a much slower speed would do the job more efficiently. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of a 300gr bullet at about 650 fps.
He got on the line & we in the crowd watched as he shot his first pin. You could literally see the bullet travel, hit the pin, & bounce back square in the middle of his forehead. Blood--yes, dazed & confused--yes, but basically he was fine, the bullet was just moving too slow to do damage.
Only his pride was hurt, as is mine for my little incident, but he is definately Second Chance lore for life. And after knowing he was OK, a damn funny replay in the mind.
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
Ahem...there is a "22" round in the upper rafters of a home I used to own in Lake Arrowhead, California...all I remember was that I was sighting up the barrel, pointing at the roof...BANG! Yikes, what the??? Apparently, this particular dumbass forgot to empty the single round in the chamber..
Needless to say, it has not happened since!
"A mans got to know his limitations"
Chattaroy, WA - USA!
Ok, I dont like to talk about this but many years ago, about 27 or so, I was at my Dads house and my step brother had been shooting the 22 at something using birdshot. I still dont know why the birdshot, you cant kill anything with birdshot in a 22. Anyway he brought the rifle, a 22 pump, into the house and laid it on the table in the kitchen. I was looking at it and wanted to make sure it was unloaded and POW into the ceiling went a nice patern of shot. Well it didn't look to bad so we thought we wouldn't say anything (dumb idea)and nobody would notice. WRONG! I think it was the first thing Dad noticed when he went through the Kitchen later after getting off work. WHAT THE H@#$!! $%#^#@!&*!! HAPPEND TO THE CEILING. I fessed up but blamed it on Gary for bringing a loaded gun in the house. I think that pattern is still there. I will check on my next visit. He lives in Red Bluff CA. It gave him something to talk about for years. We come from a long line of Cowboys so its natural to shoot things up every once in a while. Well I need to go clean my guns....
P.S. This is a true story and no names were changed because no one was inocent
Chez,
That's a pretty funny story. I have always wondered at the vailidity of using the "power floor" calculation as a way to keep things even in competitions. I know the theory is to prevent someone from minimizing their recoil by loading an ultra-light target load, instead of a "real world" defensive load, but punching nice round holes in paper targets is far different from knocking down bowling pins.
Basically, power floor is a momentum calculation which doesn't do the unit converstions to turn the result into a meaningful number. However, it is simple and easy to use: just multiply the mass in grains by the velocity in feet per second, and you get your power floor.
In your example, you shot 235 * 950 = 223,250. Your "friend" shot 300 * 650 = 195,000, so on a power floor basis, these should be comparable rounds, with your round being about 14% more powerful.
However, this other guy seems to have forgotten that the laws of physics apply, even if he chose to ignore them. The real issue to consider when knocking over bowling pins (or a bad guy for that matter) is energy dump into the target. For the sake of this arguement, let's set aside the issue of penetration into the target (and therefore the whole issue of round-nose vs. hollowpoint vs. frangible ammo). So let's just look purely at kinetic energy delivered to the point of impact. KE = 1/2 * m * v * v. (Read this as 1/2mv squared.) The key to this formula is the "squared" or the fact that velocity is multipled in there twice while mass is only in there once. That being the case, you would need a much larger change in mass to compensate for even a small loss in velocity.
Again, without converting units to arrive at actual energy units, let's just run the same numbers into this formula. Chez's round was 1/2 * 235 * 950 * 950 = 106,043,750 and the other round was 1/2 * 300 * 650 * 650 = 63,750,000.
So, we see that even though the power floors were similar, the heavier, slower round hit the target with only about 66% as much energy, which was apparently well below the "knock the bowling pin over threshhold." Maybe that's why they're called "laws of physics" rather than suggestions?[:D][:D][:D]
Barry,
If the Second Chance match ever again becomes a reality, you and I have to get together over a smoke & a couple of brews to design our NEW loads![:D][8D]
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
Without a doubt Barry just impressed the Q out of me [:D]
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
Love this discussion, guys, even though I'm far from a physicist, and I'm not sure what the connection to smokin' is . . .
Does the location of the impact on the bowling pin make a difference? I'm thinking about the fact that the bowling pin is asymmetrically shaped, and has a rather significant mass with a center of gravity. The force one needs to apply to tip an object over decreases as one gets further from the center of gravity (the lever arm effect, if my ancient physics is still sound). The obvious example is a see-saw, where you can take two people of very different weights and balance them by moving the fulcrum/balancing point of the see-saw. In other words, if you hit the bowling pin at the very top, wouldn't it take less force to knock it over than if you hit it along it's center of gravity? Do shooters aim for the top of the pin?
John
Newton MA
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You could literally see the bullet travel, hit the pin, & bounce back square in the middle of his forehead.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sorry I was just thinking about this. Just how close was he to the pin to begin with? Far enough away so <b>"You could literally see the bullet travel"</b> Yet close enough to <b>"bounce back in the middle of his forehead."</b>
I don't understand this at all. [?]
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
John,
I didn't provide enough detail. In the .45 events, the pins are positioned on a 3-foot deep table at the very front. You can't just knock them over, they have to go off the back of the table.
A bowling pin is shaped much like a human torso, and in a combat situation, has the same valid "hit" areas. Yes, you can take it off with a head shot, but that target is less than half the size. The goal is to hit center mass. If you wing it you risk it spinning & not traveling the 3 feet backward & off the table. Then you have to try & shoot it laying down which is an even smaller target.
If you don't nail the head shot perfectly, very little energy will be tranferred to move the pin backwards since the majority of its weight is much lower.
Olds,
Shooting line to front of the table is 25 feet. I should also clarify that you couldn't necessarily see the bullet on its way to the pin, but you definately saw it coming back. Does that make better sense?
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Olds,
Shooting line to front of the table is 25 feet. I should also clarify that you couldn't necessarily see the bullet on its way to the pin, but you definately saw it coming back. Does that make better sense?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Sorta [:D] Not being a gun person (well I have home defense) I'm trying to picture in my mind this event. Is the reason behind it to compete using different tactics?
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
The event was born from an experience Rich had while traveling the country trying to sell his vests to local PDs. His sales pitch was to go out to the local range & shoot himself in the chest. His doctor later made him stop this as it was seperating his sternum.
One time, a chief asked Rich that although he understood the vest would stop the bullet, what would the capacity of his officer be in order to continue the fight? Their shooting range was at the town dump and Rich found 3 bowling pins, so het set them on a make-shift table.
He proceeds to shoot himself, then stands up and pops all three pins. The chief bought vests.
The shoot is a speed/accuracy game. The fastest to shoot all the pins off the table wins. But in order to get them off the table, you can't just hit them, you have to hit them square. Just like in a real-life shootout.
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">His sales pitch was to go out to the local range & shoot himself in the chest. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dang and I thought cleaning toilets for a living was tough... [xx(]
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bsolomon</i>
<br />Maybe that's why they're called "laws of physics" rather than suggestions?[:D][:D][:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
ROFLMAO[:D][:D]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/whitetailfan/wtbuck.bmp)
<font color="green">whitetailfan</font id="green">
"Nice Rack"
Lethbridge, AB
I am very sorry.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by MallardWacker</i>
<br />Please don't take me wrong here but there are "dumb arsses" and "arss holes" <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> And Richard Davis does not fit either description.
I'm not sure where you're going with that statement, and I am sure I'm reading it the wrong way, because we have enough history between us for me to know what your intent was (or wasn't).[8D]
If everyone only understood how many cop's lives this guy saved by going out & doing it in a time where the powers-that-be thought it was "kooky" science.
Yeah, the guy's made a few million. And in my opinion, deserves every cent.
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
Mallard,
You took me wrong. I really didn't have a problem with what you posted, and certainly didn't feel it needed to be edited. If I did, I could have done it myself.[;)][:D][:D][8D]
I just felt like you had mis-read what I said & was trying to clear the air.[:)]
Smoke on dude, we're cool![8D]
Kirk
http://www.chezbubba.com
Ya think next time I check into a hotel & they ask "Smoking or Non?" they would mind?
There is no problem here; I just didn't want the thing to be misconstrued (is that a word?)My mind just flashed seeing a guy getting hit so many times hit the chest that his doctor is telling him to quit. Kirk, life is way to short. You can't ruffle me up unless you touch the most important stuff, Wife-Kids and my time I spend with them. Period. Then again....Getting ruffled...Hummmm... mother-in-law[}:)]?????Hummmm ...great probability! Then again that is a certainty.
Peace, Love, Smoke....Then Smoke Sa'more. Rave On Dude.
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/files/mallardwacker/peta-sucks.gif)
SmokeOn,
(http://www.azbbqa.com/forum/phpbb2/images/avatars/gallery/AZBBQA/mallardsmall.gif)
mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie
If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...
Glad to see this worked out as I hoped....
Olds
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/smilies/Launch47.gif)
group hug, group hug [:D][;)][8D]
John
Newton MA
Didn't your Mothers tell ya not to play with guns......"you could put your eye out" [B)][;)][:D]
MWS - Mike
That was only with rubber-band guns......I took that to say all else was fair game.
(http://www.dow-mgc.org/files/mallardwacker/peta-sucks.gif)
SmokeOn,
(http://www.azbbqa.com/forum/phpbb2/images/avatars/gallery/AZBBQA/mallardsmall.gif)
mski
Perryville, Arkansas
Wooo-Pig-Soooie
If a man says he knows anything at all, he knows nothing what he aught to know. But...