BRADLEY SMOKER | "Taste the Great Outdoors"

Smoking Techniques => Curing => Topic started by: SamuelG on November 30, 2010, 05:35:16 PM

Title: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on November 30, 2010, 05:35:16 PM
Here it goes:


4.5lbs of top round Beef
38g of kosher salt
45g of Brown Sugar
8g of Black Pepper
6g of Cure#2
*Charcuterie by Michael Ruhlman

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a504-aac9.jpg)
All ingredients were ground in a coffee mill and divided in 2 by weight.  The first cure was applied on 11-7-2010 and vacuum packed.  Second cure on 11-14-20 until 11-20-2010.  Meat was divided in two.

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a530-5058.jpg)(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a549-1d58.jpg)(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a56d-9751.jpg)
#1 was tied with butchers twin and cold smoked for 10 hrs @ 80F with the door open in blocks of ice.  What a pain that was.
#2 was wrapped in cheese cloth and tied with butchers twine.

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a596-1bc8.jpg)(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a5b8-16ba.jpg)
All four pieces are hanging @ 60F and 70% RH since 11-20-2010.  Weight loss has been the following:

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a5f5-adc4.jpg)
11-20-2010 #1 1070g #2 950g ( Starting Weight )
11-22-2010 #1 1021g or 4.6% loss #2 939g or 1.2% loss
11-28-2010 #1 945g or 11.7% loss #2 868g or 8.6% loss
(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-a61e-44c6.jpg)
Any comments or concerns would be great.  Thanks

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: classicrockgriller on November 30, 2010, 05:39:18 PM
I have a comment ................ WOW!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on November 30, 2010, 06:21:04 PM
Same comment ... WOW!

So how much final weight loss are you looking for ?
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: jiggerjams on November 30, 2010, 06:45:53 PM
Looks great when can you slice it?
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on November 30, 2010, 06:56:33 PM
Thanks for the WOW.

I'm looking for a very firm or about 35% as that seems to be the magic number.

The two in cheese cloth have begun to develop white mold ( small spots ).  I'm getting concerned and might unwrap them and apply a white vinegar solution.  This white mold is supposed to be good... Can anyone provide some advice with this?

The other two that were smoked smell and look amazing.

From the initial picture above where the cross cut of the meat can be seen, can anyone guesstimate if the cure made it into the meat?

Thanks

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on November 30, 2010, 06:58:03 PM
Quote from: jiggerjams on November 30, 2010, 06:45:53 PM
Looks great when can you slice it?

More or less Looking for 35% weight loss.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 01, 2010, 02:06:03 AM
Looks good. Is that a version of his Bresaola. His Bresaola recipe was one of my first dry cured meats, and it came out great. Stay with the 30% - 35% loss in green weight. I went to 40%, and it was a little more "tougher" then I would have liked.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 01, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
Habanero Smoker,

It is a version that I was trying to make similar to Spanish " Cecina ".  Did you get any mold?  ???

Thanks.

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: ExpatCanadian on December 01, 2010, 08:28:49 AM

Looks great!  I haven't tried any beef yet, but it's on the list.  So much Charcuterie...  so little time  ;)


Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 01, 2010, 12:49:28 PM
Quote from: SamuelG on December 01, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
Habanero Smoker,

It is a version that I was trying to make similar to Spanish " Cecina ".  Did you get any mold?  ???

Thanks.

SamuelG

I got quite a bit of mold, because the humidity was averaging close to 90% RH. Just keep washing the mold off with either a vinegar water solution, or a salt water solution. I prefer 75% to 80% RH. I had to open the door frequently and fan until the humidity dropped. At this time I don't want to cut or drill any holes in my cabinet to install intake and exhaust vents, because I also use it as a refrigerator when not curing. I now have a small dehumidifier, but haven't tried it out. I was hoping to have some dry cured sausage and meat around Christmas, but the way it looks I won't be getting back to my dry curing of sausage and meats until February.

Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SouthernSmoked on December 01, 2010, 01:59:30 PM
Dang!!! Enough said!

Maybe not, WOW!

Awesome!!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 01, 2010, 03:20:36 PM
As long as they end up some where between "dang" and "wow" I'll be happy as can be with my first attempt. ;)
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on December 01, 2010, 04:19:58 PM
Well, from your start I would say you will finish beyond "Wow!".

I'm jealous.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 01, 2010, 04:52:43 PM
12/1/2010 #1 16.2% #2 13.2% loss

I have begun to get some white mold, but that is supposed to be a good sign so I left it in on #2. 

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-ec44-3332.jpg)(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-ec59-a4a1.jpg)(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-ec76-d728.jpg)(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-ec93-d5f9.jpg)

I'm not sure the beef cured long enough, but only a few more weeks and we will know.

The smell is amazing.  It reminds me of Spain when I use to go buy the Iberico with my Dad.  The pork loins that I used the same recipe and time are almost done @ 30% loss.  Here is a pic

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a68908a7-ed3c-72e6.jpg)

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my posts.  If there are any questions or concerns I'll try to answer them.  Thanks

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: smokeNcanuck on December 01, 2010, 05:36:09 PM
I can't wait for you cut in to some of this stuff!!  It looks really really good, got my mouth watering just looking at it.
Wish I had that smell o vision monitor.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 01, 2010, 05:56:34 PM
I guess I need a slicer.  Any suggestions on a good but economical one?
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 02, 2010, 01:49:57 AM
They are looking good. I can't tell by the picture, but if that is a fuzzy white mold you should clean it off. The powdery white mold is what you should be looking for and is beneficial, all others should be cleaned off the surface.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 02, 2010, 04:36:36 AM
Thanks Habanero Smoker,

I'll take it off today.  The pieces that I smoked the most have very little to no mold.  I guess next time I'll smoke them a lot more.

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 03, 2010, 01:49:41 AM
It's odd, smoke is suppose to inhibit the growth of bacteria, but like you, I smoked my bresaola and I had all sorts of problems with surface mold.

Your cured meats are looking really good. I can't wait to hear about the finished product.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 03, 2010, 05:07:58 AM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on December 03, 2010, 01:49:41 AM
It's odd, smoke is suppose to inhibit the growth of bacteria, but like you, I smoked my bresaola and I had all sorts of problems with surface mold.

Your cured meats are looking really good. I can't wait to hear about the finished product.

The ones I smoked have the least mold which seems to form around the butchers twine.... but still very litle mold.

The ones with no smoke that were wrapped in cheese cloth were developing a lot of mold and I had to remove it to clean with vinegar/water.

I'm also developing a powder like white mold that is supposed to be very desirable ... Like salami.

(http://tapa.tk/mu/63872d28-eab3-1d42.jpg)
(http://tapa.tk/mu/63872d28-eaca-2ae1.jpg)

Next batch I'll use some type of casing. It would need to be very large one which I'm not sure where or what to buy.  Any suggestions?
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 03, 2010, 01:19:59 PM
For whole muscle meat beef bungs or middles will work, but for whole muscle the protein lined collagen casings are easier to work with. For dry cured whole muscle, or dry cured sausage when using collagen casings you should only used the protein lined collagen casings. The protein will help the casings adhere to the meat, if you use regular collagen casings the casing will not stick to the meat, as it dries and shrinks. This can form air pockets in which bacteria can grow underneath the casings.

I purchase my casings from Sausage Maker:
Protein Lined Collagen Casings (http://www.sausagemaker.com/search.aspx?find=Protein-Lined+Casings)
Beef Casings Listed Among Natural Casings (http://www.sausagemaker.com/naturalcasings.aspx)
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 03, 2010, 07:34:11 PM
Thanks Habanero Smoker,

I will place an order this weekend with your suggestions.  I'm thinking of going with the 60mm for the pork loin  and a the beef bung for the bresaola/coppa.  As soon as this first batch is finished I'll make the corrections needed and go for number two.  The weather is nice and cool for Miami so i need to get as much done as possible.  I really appreciate your help.


Thanks,

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 04, 2010, 01:21:27 AM
You are welcome. Your posts have gotten me more motivated to get back on working on my dry cure sausages and meats for this year.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 04, 2010, 05:25:25 PM
WOW!!!
;D
I wish you could give this tenderloin (pork) a try to get your expert opinion.  I cut into it at 33% loss and the taste is amazing although I like it drier.  I will continue to dry it till it hits 40% loss.  The center was in my opinion a different color than the rest.  I will post some pics as soon as tapatalk is working again.

Thanks to all those that helped me out.

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 04, 2010, 05:43:31 PM
Lets See if it works:

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i438/samugonz/photoc.jpg)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i438/samugonz/photob.jpg)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i438/samugonz/photo.jpg)
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 04, 2010, 05:45:05 PM
If anyone can comment on the different color that you can see in the middle.

Thanks

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 04, 2010, 09:09:33 PM
Page 181 last paragraph of Charcuterie.." if the center still has a raw appearance....return to to drying box."

(http://tapa.tk/mu/a6890929-1e85-4f21.jpg)

SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: classicrockgriller on December 04, 2010, 10:52:25 PM
This is just awesome.

Has been fun to follow.

Thanks to you and Hab's.

Feel's like I'm just sitting there listening to you guys chat!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 05, 2010, 01:31:18 AM
With a 33% loss, it should have had a nice consistancy throughout. I would check it again at a 35% reduction, as I said earlier I did not like the texture at 40% loss for whole muscle, but for sausage I continue to use ≈40% reduction as a general guideline.

It's looking really good. You didn't have to deal with much mold. What was your average realtive humidity?
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 05, 2010, 05:29:55 AM
Habanero Smoker,

The two pieces that got smoked have done exceptionally well with only one small dot of white mold.  The other too I've hade to wipe down to control it.

RH has been 72-75. I took out the salt tray and it hit 85 ( 1 day only )  Since then I have left it in.


Thanks. 
SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 05, 2010, 05:39:47 AM
classicrockgriller,

For me it has been great.  I had been wanting to do this since I moved back from Spain but did not know how to get started.  It all changed when I found this great forum filled with great people willing to help and share their experience / knowledge.  This led to the DBS, the books and the long nights having neighbors knock on my door to ask what the wonderful smell is! 


Last night I shared some of my tenderloin and boy did they enjoy it.. I gave the legal disclaimer first so they were well warned that was my first...


Thanks. 
SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 06, 2010, 03:05:17 PM
#1 21.6% loss with very little to no mold.

#2 21.2% with lots of white powder like mold.  The smell is amazing I imagine b/c of he mold.  Also, this mold seems to speed up the drying a lot.  Before the mold appeared, there was a big difference in % lost but not anymore.



They are both still not as hard as the Cecina that I use to eat so I will continue to monitor the % lost.

Tenderloins are doing great and I will try them again soon.

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 06, 2010, 03:08:34 PM
Cure#2

(http://tapa.tk/mu/63872d28-6cd6-3c77.jpg)

SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 08, 2010, 04:52:05 PM
Pork Tenderloin update:

With a loss of 35% they are just right.  It has taken about a month to get this end product and I am very impressed with the results.  Honestly  I did not think they would turn out so well.  Today I compared it to store bought ( Spanish Lomo Embuchado $29.99/lb ) and IMHO the home made was much much better.  Of course, I'm probably biased :P

The Beef is still drying at 23.7% loss.  Hope it is half as good.

Lessons Learned:

Should have been in a casing, helping the drying be more uniform. 
The loins should be more uniform in size to help with uniform drying.
They cured for 11 days, next time I'll leave 2 more days with the same recipe.

Most importantly,  I MADE WAY TO LITTLE!!!

A big thanks to everyone who has helped me through this process so far, it is really appreciated.  If anyone has any questions I'll try to help.

Thanks,

SamuelG
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 08, 2010, 04:52:19 PM
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-27b6-202e.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-27c8-4ac5.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-27dd-d46c.jpg)(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-27ef-55db.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-2802-9cd3.jpg)

I hope I'm not overdoing it with the pics.  ;-)




SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on December 08, 2010, 05:14:46 PM
My knees are trembling ... THAT  LOOKS  SO  GOOD!

I am jealous.  Must get a curing cabinet!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Tenpoint5 on December 08, 2010, 05:30:39 PM
Sam don't worry about posting pictures especially when they look like that!! That looks AWESOME!!!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: squirtthecat on December 08, 2010, 05:39:53 PM

Wow, that look fantastic!   Post away, buddy!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: NePaSmoKer on December 08, 2010, 05:40:39 PM
That looks fantastic.

I have everything to get my dry cure/fermenting done, i just gotta get off my a$$ and put it all together  :o
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: jiggerjams on December 08, 2010, 05:51:28 PM
Mmmm meat candy. Very nice.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: FLBentRider on December 08, 2010, 06:50:19 PM
If that tastes half as good as it looks - wow.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 16, 2010, 06:18:29 PM
Update:  Pork tenderloins are all gone. Delicious!

Dried beef is almost done.  Both are firm, but a little soft in the middle.  The smell is just amazing!

32% loss
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-c826-68d0.jpg)
34% loss
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/63872d28-c854-7101.jpg)

SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 17, 2010, 01:38:21 AM
Looks great. Let us know how it taste, and about the texture.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 21, 2010, 05:04:25 PM
Just cut into one of the bresaola/cecina at 39% loss.  This one was not smoked. 

The texture silky smooth and moist.

(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890aaa-4d5a-54ca.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890aaa-4d79-caf6.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890aaa-4d92-2de8.jpg)

For me, I like for it to have a dried out  more to almost a leather like texture.

Apart from that, it is delicious on it's own or on any type of bread or cracker with some manchego cheese.  Don't forget a good cab.

I will continue to dry the other two pieces.

SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 28, 2010, 06:08:29 PM
Just cut into the last bresaola/cecina which had been smoked at 41% loss.  It turned out very close to what I used to have in Spain.  The texture is much tougher then the first, but with richer taste.   It must be sliced paper thin.  I like it better like this, but the silky smooth texture of the first one might be the way to go.  I think it was Habs that suggested between  30-35%.  My next batch I'll do half at 35% and the other half at 40%.

(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890a19-9519-18d0.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890a19-9539-e3f2.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890a19-9553-0d0d.jpg)
(http://184.72.239.143/mu/a6890a19-9571-386d.jpg)

Things I would change:
- more smoke, probably double
- more salt
- a casing of some sort to even out the drying process

If any one can help me out with casing suggestions for my next batch I would appreciate it.  I tried sone collagen ones on the pork butt that I'm drying, but they have separated completely.

What is the best way to store this cured and dried meat.  I use to buy it sliced and vacuum packed, but after all I have read here I'm not to sure.  Ideally, it would be nice to store it sliced.

Thanks. 
SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Caribou on December 28, 2010, 06:42:02 PM
Great job Samuel :)
This thread has been so interesting to follow.
Carolyn
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: SamuelG on December 28, 2010, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: Caribou on December 28, 2010, 06:42:02 PM
Great job Samuel :)
This thread has been so interesting to follow.
Carolyn
Thanks Carolyn. :-)


Thanks. 
SamuelG

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on December 28, 2010, 07:03:48 PM
Gawd that looks good !

Very, very nice, Sam!
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: Habanero Smoker on December 29, 2010, 01:23:50 AM
Nice bresaola. I believe I recommended not going over 35%. I went to 40% and got the same results you did, but I did not like the tough texture. But if you like it that way, it all that matters.
Title: Re: First Attempt to cure whole muscle
Post by: BuyLowSellHigh on December 29, 2010, 04:55:53 AM
Quote from: SamuelG on December 28, 2010, 06:08:29 PM

If any one can help me out with casing suggestions for my next batch I would appreciate it.  I tried sone collagen ones on the pork butt that I'm drying, but they have separated completely.


Sam,

I'll pass this along with the caveat it would be experimental, but with sound precedent.

I asked the Drybag Steak folks about the potential for using the dry bags in dry aging cured meats.  Thea responded via email:

"In fact, this material started out its food application in the processing of Serrano ham in Spain.  Later, it was put to the test with several types of Italian dry sausage, and has had its greatest success with soppressato.  It is also used in smoking cheeses and meats, as it is smoke permeable.  Because of its flexibility, it does not work well with hung dry sausage unless they are reinforced with meat netting."

I then asked about temperature and humidity conditions where the material was used, she responded as follows:

"To be frank, I do not know the temperature or humidity conditions of the drying rooms where this material has been tested.  I can tell you that the tests were generally side-by-side with fibrous casing, so would suggest the warmer rooms where the pH of the meat is the most critical factor.  If you are using whole muscle meat, it is probably less of a question, so your idea to pancetta, bresaola or copa is probably of good starting point.  "

As best I can tell, the dry bag material was used as a synthetic casing.  I think it is worth a try, but again it is an experiment. 

I am planning to try dry bag aging of a pork loin and a pancetta cured piece of belly at refrigerator temps some time in the near future.