I just discovered the world of hot water bathing for finishing sausage( Thanks to Mike & Kirby )......WOW awesome, I LOVE IT!!! I was just wondering if anyone has done this to snack sticks? Maybe not on collagen, but I bet you could on natural casings.
Yes you can hot water bath collagen casings.
You probably can use it on collagen casings but they need to be smoked right after stuffing and you need to keep and eye on them and don't over do it. If they spend the night in the fridge after stuffing the collagen casings start to soften.
Did you give it a shot Paul?
Kirby (Pikeman_95) gets the credit on this. At least he's the one that passed this process onto me. I had played with injecting steam into my big smoker to bring the sausage up to temp quicker after the smoke process but it was much more complicated than the hot water bath method.
I don't use collagen casings. My only experiences with them wasn't very good. I'm not sure if it's the casings that are available here or what.
Mike
I think for the more assured results in the water bath I would stick with natural casings and I have used fibrous casings with good results but I do not have much experience with the collagen casings. We might just need to establish a system for this. There is a large desire to use the collagen casings for meat sticks and it might work best if we make sure that the ends are tied so that water does not get between the meat and the casing. From what I have read before on guys that have tried it I think they either left in the water too long or have left the ends exposed to the water. just my two bits but if anyone has any ideas lets work on it and come up with the answer.
QuoteDid you give it a shot Paul?
Yes I did....works beautifully ;D I love it...gonna do all my sausage this way! I was just wondering if anyone does it with snack sticks. Thanks again for all the help!!!
That's an excellent idea Kirby.
Anybody who tries collagen snack sticks and finishes in a hot water bath it would be really nice if they kept all the details and post them. That way, piece by piece, maybe we can come up with a process.
Mike
Ok like a cross dresser i'm forced to come outta the closet :D
Yes you can hot water bath 17-19mm collagen sticks. Here is proof.
(http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab242/nepas1/DSC00054.jpg)
(http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab242/nepas1/gs2.jpg)
Oh i feel so much better now :D :D
CRAPPERS
The lid is off the receipt vault.
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA another secret revealed :D :D ;D ;)
Say Kirby,
Why is you take the sausage IT to 155? Isn't 152 safe....why 155?
Excellent Rick!
So....
Did you allow the sticks to rest in the fridge over night after stuffing or was it straight to the smoker?
About how much time or at what temp did you pull them from the smoker and drop them in the water bath?
What temp was the water bath at and at what IT did you pull the sticks at?
Did you cold water shower them or just hang and bloom?
I probably have more questions once I think a little longer. ;D
Mike
Paul
From everything I have read 152 degrees is the number. The main reason (my belief) to take them to 155 degrees is because of the swift rise in IT during this process (hot water bath). Kinda of a safety margin so to speak.
At least that's my take on it.
Mike
Quote from: pfowl01 on March 26, 2011, 05:31:01 PM
Say Kirby,
Why is you take the sausage IT to 155? Isn't 152 safe....why 155?
the sausage maker used to use that temperature all the time and I like to be safe. Old story but my family had a friend die of botulism poisoning when I was a kid. It was not nice. you do not suffer any fat out issues at 155 but go to 160-165 and beyond and the fat starts to melt and drain away. That is why I add the cold water to my bath when the IT reaches 155. I do not want it to go any higher.
Quote from: Mr Walleye on March 26, 2011, 05:43:37 PM
Excellent Rick!
So....
Did you allow the sticks to rest in the fridge over night after stuffing or was it straight to the smoker?
About how much time or at what temp did you pull them from the smoker and drop them in the water bath?
What temp was the water bath at and at what IT did you pull the sticks at?
Did you cold water shower them or just hang and bloom?
I probably have more questions once I think a little longer. ;D
Mike
If i need to fridge them i either just mix, fridge and stuff the next day or if i do mix, stuff and fridge i dont cover the sticks so the casings dont get wet or sit on top of each other, this can bleed the color of the casings.
I stuffed and smoked right away. Took the sticks to 140 in the smoker, took right to the hot water 180* and took the sticks to 149 then hung to bloom. I hardly ever take the sticks to the target IT. Blooming w/out cold water will get the IT there itself.
I dont do this all the time.
Thanks Rick!
They look excellent! 8)
Mike
by the way Rick they look great. Is the first picture just out of the smoker and the second one after the bath and bloom?
Quote from: pikeman_95 on March 26, 2011, 05:58:50 PM
by the way Rick they look great. Is the first picture just out of the smoker and the second one after the bath and bloom?
They are 2 different batches right from the bath
OK just guessing. I remember looking at the post when you showed pics of the second sticks at the time you did them and wandering how you kept them so plump..I thought you might have bathed them but again I thought you might have had another secret.
Thanks for the information of the collagen casings. Thinking that they could not take a bath is one reason I have gone with natural casings.
Have talked with my coworker who is also a butcher just closed his shop of ten years down. Said it was to much work having a day job and a night business of meat processing lol. He told me that poaching is fine but, the casing natural and collagen can split from to fast a rise in temp. He recommended to put the sausage in warm water and bring it up to temp. Not to just dump it into 165 degree water. Just his experience.
I never had a problem going from smoker to the bath.
I tried the hot water bath with collegen casings years ago and it didn't work for me. Must have done something wrong. As soon as I put them in the water the casings shrunk and ended up with 6 or 7 inches of bare meat at each end. Maybe the water was too hot. I don't know what the problem was and at that time figured it was the casings and the process would work better with natural casing.
OK, I can see the benefit of finishing this way after I did snack sticks last weekend, I have some very dry and some just right, but I had a tough time taking them to temp, seemed like everytime I opened the smoker to rotate, i lost the heat in the meat and the smoker.
So you just get water going on the stove at 165-180* and drop the sausage in after a good smoke?
And how do you monitor the IT while they are in the water?
Thanks for clearing this process up a little for me.
Dave
Quote from: grnhs on April 06, 2011, 05:19:09 PM
OK, I can see the benefit of finishing this way after I did snack sticks last weekend, I have some very dry and some just right, but I had a tough time taking them to temp, seemed like everytime I opened the smoker to rotate, i lost the heat in the meat and the smoker.
So you just get water going on the stove at 165-180* and drop the sausage in after a good smoke?
And how do you monitor the IT while they are in the water?
Thanks for clearing this process up a little for me.
Dave
The end of your temp prob needs to be water prof or it will short out. Use some sort of sealant on the end where the cable goes into the prob to seal it up and you should be good to go
Thanks Devo, Yes I have a brand new probe after my summer sausage ice water bath a couple of weeks ago!
I assume the sausage comes up to temp much quicker in the hot water. Do you keep a probe in one all the time it is in there?
Quote from: grnhs on April 06, 2011, 05:19:09 PM
OK, I can see the benefit of finishing this way after I did snack sticks last weekend, I have some very dry and some just right, but I had a tough time taking them to temp, seemed like everytime I opened the smoker to rotate, i lost the heat in the meat and the smoker.
So you just get water going on the stove at 165-180* and drop the sausage in after a good smoke?
And how do you monitor the IT while they are in the water?
Thanks for clearing this process up a little for me.
Dave
Make the water 160 and no more. If you make it to hot it will melt the fat in the sausage.
Just seen this post and I have doin the water bath, we call it poaching, for yeeeeeeeeeears.
I use one of these thingys.
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/OU812_bucket/sides/PICT0001.jpg)
If you look closely you can see my temp marks the red one is 180 F the middle one is 160 and the bottom is 140. It holds steady with no problems and can do 15 lb of sticks.
The trick to colagin casings is you need to smoke cook like normal, slowly raise the cabnet temp and after an hr at 160 drop them in the roaster that has warmed for at least an hr.
I dont tie the ends and never got water in side. You will loose all the color from smoking them but after they cool they look like this.
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/OU812_bucket/sausage/100_0721.jpg)
I do hot dogs with out smoking just straight off the stuffer straight to the roaster also. Now this way the casings will come loose mid way through the cook, which I want cause I dont want the casings on my hot dogs. I do twist these, just for the looks, and tie with thread.
(http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww263/OU812_bucket/sausage/100_1086.jpg)
When they float there done, but I check every one with my Thermopen to make sure.
Thanks PM and OU, I had an 18 lb pork butt follow me home from Sams last weekend so I am going to give this a try this weekend,
The Mrs got a nice cuisenart food processor for Christmas and she will be away this weekend visiting the kids. I think I will try it out on some hotdogs.
I've got 3 recipes of different sausages out of the Kutas book that I will smoke and poach.
I think I need to go shopping for a roaster after work tonight!
I need to build a garage just for the meat processing equipment I'm accumulating! ;)
Thanks again,
Dave
Dave;
Every roaster is different, you will need to fill your roaster to the rim with water, pick a set point on the dial and leave it there for an hr with the lid on. Then take the temp of the water and adjust from there each time starting with fresh water till you get the set point were you need it and mark the roaster with a permanent marker.
Hope this made sense.
Good luck.
Those roasters are darn handy... I have the same model as OU812. I think it was maybe $30 at Sears after Thanksgiving.
It will draw some amps while it is heating up, so don't put it on an overloaded circuit.
I drop my Maverick probe through one of the vent holes in the top, and it is just long enough to dip into any liquid you might have inside for a temp reading. (the bend in the probe keeps it from falling in)
yes it makes perfect sense.
I am on hold on the phone with Walmart to see if they have one.
Been looking for a good reason to have an electric roaster oven ;D
Quote from: grnhs on April 07, 2011, 03:26:31 PM
Been looking for a good reason to have an electric roaster oven ;D
Makes a great steam table too. ;D
OU is that when you put the pan in over the water and heat the pan with the water?
The turkey roaster looks like a great idea for so many guys. It is long and has some temperature controls. Can you set it at a temperature and have it hold that temperature or will it float? Guys might check your local good will of second hand stores. I have seen them and never thought about using one.
Quote from: pikeman_95 on April 07, 2011, 07:32:05 PM
The turkey roaster looks like a great idea for so many guys. It is long and has some temperature controls. Can you set it at a temperature and have it hold that temperature or will it float? Guys might check your local good will of second hand stores. I have seen them and never thought about using one.
They will hold the temp, just start with it FULL of water, then ladle out the excess water as you add the sausage keeping the roaster FULL to the rim with water.
Keeping the roaster FULL to the rim after adding the sausage and the lid on is the key.
Times will varry with how much you got in there.
I have my sausage tank but I am going to keep an eye out for them for my sausage making friends. They would also be handy for smaller batches.