Not being from "bbq country" and not growing up on it, I really have not eaten much brisket. When I first started smoking in a cheap Brinkman vertical smoker, I tried a brisket. The temps were near impossible to control but when I took that brisket out, let it rest, and sliced it, it was like butter. So moist and juicy. Needless to say, I have yet to duplicate that. My briskets continue to come out dry. Maybe I am expecting too much but I think they should be moist, tender, and juicy.
This time I had multiple temp probes in the brisket. I had a 7 pounder and the IT was reading around 190 after about six hours. The fork test was saying "not done" so I took it out and inserted the probe in a different part of the flat. That measured about 171*. SO I left it in a couple more hours until one probe read 189* and one read 184. Both in the flat. Pulled and FTC'd for a couple of hours and sliced. Well, another dry brisket.
I think I need to stand beside an expert and watch and learn.
I think most of us prefer to smoke packers (point & flat together). I find that flats have less fat (marbling and cap) and are easier to dry out. Six hours for a 7 pound flat sounds like your cabinet temperature was too high - try to maintain it at 225o for the whole cook. If you're using a Bradley, you might want to move it to the oven after the smoke phase (about four hours) for tighter temperature control. At that point you could boat it ("Texas crutch") but that shouldn't be necessary.
I generally pull a brisket at an IT of 185o and FTC it with a splash of its defatted pan drippings for at least 4-5 hours. I think that helps re-moisturize and makes it more tender (but that's just me).
The real experts will be along to correct me but until then at least you have something to read.
JimmyB
First off brisket will never be as moist and tender as say a medium rare ribeye or some Kobe steak. It's a different animal, so to speak! It also appears that you used a 6 pound brisket. That is usually a tough price of meat to low n slow. Usually the flat, meaning it's relatively thin and has been trimmed of most fat. Not an easy task. Changed tactics could help. Now nobody fall out, but you could use foil and braise it. Or you could precook a and finish in the Bradley or use the cowboy braise technique. But it would just be easier to get a whole packer. Also I've been taking them off at 185.
I would concur with whats been said already. If the flat has been trimmed of all of its fat I would lay a bacon weave over the top of it to try and get some moisture back into it.
I concur as well and will add that it seems in my experience that the larger the brisket, the better it comes out.
I think the larger mass is more forgiving.
Quote from: FLBentRider on September 30, 2011, 05:30:42 PMI think the larger mass is more forgiving.
FLBR - True. As I've gained weight over the years I've become much more forgiving.
jimmy - You've just heard from 3 of the best - listen to those boys. Also, if you get a packer it doesn't hurt to save (freeze) some of the fat you trim off. If you're not a sausage maker, you can always use it to cap the next overtrimmed flat you have.
In this attempt, I went to a butcher because I wasn't happy with the past Walmart briskets as you might have read in my previous post. This was the largest brisket he had and weighed in over 7 lbs. At first glance I told the butcher that I need a packers cut and not the flat he was showing me. He ensured me that this was a packers cut and showed me the point and then the flat. He was correct as I found out when I cut it after smoking but the point seemed to be very small making it appear to be just a flat. This was a nice cut as it had very even thickness throughout the flat.
With all of that said, I will get this right. I did have my cabinet temp at 225 controlled by a PID with a dual element mod. I did not rotate this brisiket so maybe that's a problem. I guess my only concerns were that the temp readings were drastically different at different spots in the flat and it seemed to be done too fast. Sometimes I tend to overthink these things and want to get it to an exact science and I think this cannot be done in this case. I think I might just have to get a feel for when it's done and use the fork test.
This forum and its members certainly make it easier to keep at it with some great advice. WIthout it I think I would have given up a long time ago.
Quote from: jimmyb on October 02, 2011, 06:04:55 PM
In this attempt, I went to a butcher because I wasn't happy with the past Walmart briskets as you might have read in my previous post. This was the largest brisket he had and weighed in over 7 lbs. At first glance I told the butcher that I need a packers cut and not the flat he was showing me. He ensured me that this was a packers cut and showed me the point and then the flat. He was correct as I found out when I cut it after smoking but the point seemed to be very small making it appear to be just a flat. This was a nice cut as it had very even thickness throughout the flat.
With all of that said, I will get this right. I did have my cabinet temp at 225 controlled by a PID with a dual element mod. I did not rotate this brisiket so maybe that's a problem. I guess my only concerns were that the temp readings were drastically different at different spots in the flat and it seemed to be done too fast. Sometimes I tend to overthink these things and want to get it to an exact science and I think this cannot be done in this case. I think I might just have to get a feel for when it's done and use the fork test.
This forum and its members certainly make it easier to keep at it with some great advice. WIthout it I think I would have given up a long time ago.
You forgot the best part YOU GET TO DO IT AGAIN!!
JimmyB
What rack have you been putting the briskets on?
Quote from: Caneyscud on October 02, 2011, 07:39:20 PM
JimmyB
What rack have you been putting the briskets on?
Good question. I do mine on top or one from the top. While you have been doing flats and some say do a full packer, the Bradley will smoke a great flat if you do temp and top rack correctly.
Quote from: DTAggie on October 02, 2011, 09:48:36 PM
Quote from: Caneyscud on October 02, 2011, 07:39:20 PM
JimmyB
What rack have you been putting the briskets on?
Good question. I do mine on top or one from the top. While you have been doing flats and some say do a full packer, the Bradley will smoke a great flat if you do temp and top rack correctly.
I agree. Most of the time I can only get untrimmed cryovac flats, and they come out pretty good. I trim them down to 1/4" - 1/8", smoke/cook at 212°F - 220°F. When possible I use the second rack position from the bottom.
This one was the second from the top on my 4 rack. Probe was placed just below the rack itself.
Quote from: jimmyb on October 03, 2011, 08:18:07 AM
This one was the second from the top on my 4 rack. Probe was placed just below the rack itself.
You didn't say what temp you are cooking at, how much smoke you are applying or what kind of rub. Give us a bit more info and lets see if we can get you an award winning brisket. I use a simple rub of black pepper, salt, garlic salt or powder and thyme. Cook at 210* to 220*. I do not use a PID so have some temp swings. Try and pull and FTC at about 190* but one I did last week hit 197* as I was out sky diving while it was cooking and it was moist and tender.
Also, make sure you slice against the grain. Give another one a try and post pics so we can help you out.
jimmyb I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute. I'll apologize ahead of time. It's not like I do it all the time! LOL
But I just did a double take. I had to read it again for it to truly sink in. Did anybody else notice? It's not something I've heard to often in my life - especially during a brisket cook. I'm not too sure I would go to that of an extreme to get a good brisket. To quote DT "...but one I did last week hit 197* as I was out sky diving while it was cooking...." Now, I hghlighted the part that was ummm......hmmmmmm....... unusual - especially for here in TN. Now I was born in Texas and have seen a lot of brisket cooked, but never......yep......NEVER have I heard of anyone cooking a brisket and then just go off skydiving! My hats off to you DT!
Quote from: Caneyscud on October 04, 2011, 06:46:02 AM
jimmyb I'm going to hijack this thread for a minute. I'll apologize ahead of time. It's not like I do it all the time! LOL
But I just did a double take. I had to read it again for it to truly sink in. Did anybody else notice? It's not something I've heard to often in my life - especially during a brisket cook. I'm not too sure I would go to that of an extreme to get a good brisket. To quote DT "...but one I did last week hit 197* as I was out sky diving while it was cooking...." Now, I hghlighted the part that was ummm......hmmmmmm....... unusual - especially for here in TN. Now I was born in Texas and have seen a lot of brisket cooked, but never......yep......NEVER have I heard of anyone cooking a brisket and then just go off skydiving! My hats off to you DT!
Well I figured I would be gone about 3 to 4 hours. Took about 6, but well worth it. Great first time skydiving and brisket was awesome!
Now back to Jimmyb
Ha, I love this forum!
TO provide some more info, I was cooking at a steady 220* cabinet tem second rack from the top. The rub I used was a McCormic Cowboy rub that I really like for a change. I applied some Jim Beam smoke for four hrs.
So here is where the problem was IMHO. As I stated before, I was taking the IT in a few different places in the flat. Both probes were in the flat just under the point. After only about 6-7 hrs in I noticed the two probes were reading 190 ish and then one went to around 196 and the other was around 187. The cook time didn't seem right and neither sis the fork test. I checked other places in the flat further away from the point and the IT was around 174*. I inserted both probes in that general area and took it out when one read 196* and one was ~187*. Probes were very close together so I'm not sure why I was getting such inconsistent results. This was still only 7.5 hrs into the cook time on about a 7.5 lb brisket. Seems too short of a time.
It does seem like a short time, but if two probes are saying it is done, I would pull it and stop cooking. Keep in FTC a few hours to let juices set and slice up. Everything else sounded just fine.
If worried about your probes. You can test them. Boiling water is 212 and frozen water is 32. Just don't dip more than the tip into water. Water can get into the connection and damage the tip.
As far as time - 1 hour per pound is not all that rare, especially with a thin-sorta-packer-but-mainly-flat cut that probably had much of the fat trimmed. When I go to one of my big smokers, even the rotisserie, they often start coming off in less than 1 hr per pound. In fact the last time I did a dozen or so - the first was done in less than 1 hr/lb and the last came off 1.15 hr/lb if I remember correctly. But that is a big smoker running a little hotter that 225 - it is less prone to temperature dips - that is if the operator doesn't fall asleep.
As an IFR licensed pilot has to learn to rely on his instruments, we have to learn to rely on our thermos. But then again if that IFR pilot notices that his instruments are flying him into the side of a mountain - he must make a correction. That's why we do the tenderness tests. My opinion, and you can take my opinion and 50 cents and go buy you a 1/2 cup of coffee (or 1/4 depending on where you buy your cup), is that it was probably done at 185 or so. Bacon draping, fat capping, and mopping as all things that could help retain moisture.
I just don't do flats, for one thing they are usually more expensive that a packer around here, so I can't give much more advice than that. However, many, many others do flats very successfully. I'm sure more will chime in with helpful hints and advice. So check your probes and try again. You'll get it dialed in. In the mean time - be sure to not trash a dry brisket - If you've never had Burnt Ends - you are in for a treat!
Quote from: Caneyscud on October 05, 2011, 09:52:53 AM
If worried about your probes. You can test them. Boiling water is 212 and frozen water is 32. Just don't dip more than the tip into water. Water can get into the connection and damage the tip.
As far as time - 1 hour per pound is not all that rare, especially with a thin-sorta-packer-but-mainly-flat cut that probably had much of the fat trimmed. When I go to one of my big smokers, even the rotisserie, they often start coming off in less than 1 hr per pound. In fact the last time I did a dozen or so - the first was done in less than 1 hr/lb and the last came off 1.15 hr/lb if I remember correctly. But that is a big smoker running a little hotter that 225 - it is less prone to temperature dips - that is if the operator doesn't fall asleep.
As an IFR licensed pilot has to learn to rely on his instruments, we have to learn to rely on our thermos. But then again if that IFR pilot notices that his instruments are flying him into the side of a mountain - he must make a correction. That's why we do the tenderness tests. My opinion, and you can take my opinion and 50 cents and go buy you a 1/2 cup of coffee (or 1/4 depending on where you buy your cup), is that it was probably done at 185 or so. Bacon draping, fat capping, and mopping as all things that could help retain moisture.
I just don't do flats, for one thing they are usually more expensive that a packer around here, so I can't give much more advice than that. However, many, many others do flats very successfully. I'm sure more will chime in with helpful hints and advice. So check your probes and try again. You'll get it dialed in. In the mean time - be sure to not trash a dry brisket - If you've never had Burnt Ends - you are in for a treat!
Caney - want to fly me for my next sky dive?
Quote from: jimmyb on October 05, 2011, 08:23:39 AM
Ha, I love this forum!
TO provide some more info, I was cooking at a steady 220* cabinet tem second rack from the top. The rub I used was a McCormic Cowboy rub that I really like for a change. I applied some Jim Beam smoke for four hrs.
So here is where the problem was IMHO. As I stated before, I was taking the IT in a few different places in the flat. Both probes were in the flat just under the point. After only about 6-7 hrs in I noticed the two probes were reading 190 ish and then one went to around 196 and the other was around 187. The cook time didn't seem right and neither sis the fork test. I checked other places in the flat further away from the point and the IT was around 174*. I inserted both probes in that general area and took it out when one read 196* and one was ~187*. Probes were very close together so I'm not sure why I was getting such inconsistent results. This was still only 7.5 hrs into the cook time on about a 7.5 lb brisket. Seems too short of a time.
From the location of your probes you where probably in the fat ribbon that runs between the point and the flat. Which will give you false readings. I put my probes in the thickest part of the flat. That would be my guess on this one
Quote from: DTAggie on October 05, 2011, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: Caneyscud on October 05, 2011, 09:52:53 AM
If worried about your probes. You can test them. Boiling water is 212 and frozen water is 32. Just don't dip more than the tip into water. Water can get into the connection and damage the tip.
As far as time - 1 hour per pound is not all that rare, especially with a thin-sorta-packer-but-mainly-flat cut that probably had much of the fat trimmed. When I go to one of my big smokers, even the rotisserie, they often start coming off in less than 1 hr per pound. In fact the last time I did a dozen or so - the first was done in less than 1 hr/lb and the last came off 1.15 hr/lb if I remember correctly. But that is a big smoker running a little hotter that 225 - it is less prone to temperature dips - that is if the operator doesn't fall asleep.
As an IFR licensed pilot has to learn to rely on his instruments, we have to learn to rely on our thermos. But then again if that IFR pilot notices that his instruments are flying him into the side of a mountain - he must make a correction. That's why we do the tenderness tests. My opinion, and you can take my opinion and 50 cents and go buy you a 1/2 cup of coffee (or 1/4 depending on where you buy your cup), is that it was probably done at 185 or so. Bacon draping, fat capping, and mopping as all things that could help retain moisture.
I just don't do flats, for one thing they are usually more expensive that a packer around here, so I can't give much more advice than that. However, many, many others do flats very successfully. I'm sure more will chime in with helpful hints and advice. So check your probes and try again. You'll get it dialed in. In the mean time - be sure to not trash a dry brisket - If you've never had Burnt Ends - you are in for a treat!
Caney - want to fly me for my next sky dive?
DT - I have flown before, but I'm not good on take offs and landings - or at least I don't think so, I've never done either one. And those things are important to a happy trip!