Newbie here on the other red meats,
As promised over in the fish section, I was going to do something with a chunk of 'eye of round' I had in the freezer. Finally thawed it out and was wanting to do some pastrami but ended up trying a basic corned beef instead. Went straight from Ruhlman's book with a couple of exceptions. Didn't have any fresh garlic so I did 2 tsp of powder instead and my pickling spice was out of a jar and a bit dated? Smells like I might have too much garlic and not enough spice but I'm going ahead anyway.
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/cb1.jpg)
Didn't have the right sized pot so I split the 5lbs in half and put them in 1gal ziplocks.
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/cb3.jpg)
Couple of questions, since this isn't a brisket (still looking for one up here :() and it is a bit thicker, how much longer than 5 days should I plan on pickling?
This will be my baseline study as I plan on doing Habanero's recipes once I get serious! I figure if I can get a decent corned beef then maybe I can move onto pastrami.
Thanks...........
1 day per 1/4" of thickness measured from inside out.
I have found that for corned beef just about any cut of meat will work...the last two I did were sirloin tip roasts.
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Thanks cgaengineer,
It was about 5" in diameter so I suppose I better go at least 10 days? The ziplocks seem to be working okay, the meat just seems to float in the middle and if you poke them around a bit it stirs things up pretty good. As far as cuts of meat go, you guys on this forum (and others) seem to have popularized brisket to the point that us poor folks can't get any. What are the pro's and con's of other cuts that are more readily available (to me) for something like this? Lets not even get into pork belly's, I'll save that for another rant!
Thanks......
Yes, at least 10 days...don't worry, it won't over cure...the wait is the only thing that hurts!
Yeah, I don't buy brisket much anymore due to the high cost...I buy what's on sale! When chuck roasts go on sale I'm gonna try one of them next, last two weeks it was the sirloin tip roasts.
Yup, pork bellies...hard to get and rather pricey considering the cut...much like brisket it really not a primo cut of meat but like you said...they have become popular! Brisket is no longer turned to GB and pork belly to sausage!
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I'll put my cb recipe here tomorrow...it's pretty dang good if I don't say so myself.
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I go two weeks for corned beef...everytime...brined rinsed...in the smoker for 4 hours...finish in the oven...comes out fabulous every time...
To make beef pastrami you need to make corned beef, then to make corned beef into pastrami you just highly season the meat prior to cooking. As mentioned above, you can you different cuts, but I like to stay with brisket or round since they give you more beef flavor. I have some cured top round that will be pastrami. They should have gone in the smoker on Monday, I got to get them in today.
The way you put them in sealable plastic bags, I'm not sure how well they will cure. When you are wet brining you should have a container that doesn't bunch up the meat, and enough brine to cover the meat, and if the meat floats you place a heavy plate on top. One gallon sealable bags are good for small cuts like small half turkey breast, drum sticks etc; but the round looks too crowded, and you may not have enough brine in the bags to cure the meat.
If anything is over 3.5 - 4-inches thick I inject with 10% brine. When you cut them in half you should have split them length wise so that they would be about 2.5-inches thick. The longer cure times, with a wet brine you won't over cure, but the meat can become saltier, but on the other hand saltiness is a matter of personal taste.
After the beef is corned then rinse, dry and cover densely with a 1:1 mixture of coarsely ground black pepper and coriander seeds. Then smoke that sucker. Makes out of this world pastrami. I find the simplest is the best - don't need any pastrami seasoning packages at all.
Quote from: 3rensho on December 28, 2011, 04:55:46 AM
After the beef is corned then rinse, dry and cover densely with a 1:1 mixture of coarsely ground black pepper and coriander seeds. Then smoke that sucker. Makes out of this world pastrami. I find the simplest is the best - don't need any pastrami seasoning packages at all.
No garlic? :)
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Thanks everyone for the input,
In hindsight, cutting it lengthwise makes alot more sense as habanero suggested but I'll use this as an excuse to finally buy and injection pump. They aren't really as crowded as the photo makes it seem and I did use the full batch of brine but I'll be sure and play with them everyday to keep things distributed.
Once you start down this road there really isn't an end to it is there? :-\
QuoteNo garlic? :)
Already in the corned beef - at least the way I make corned beef. Can add more if desired. Hard to get too much garlic. I'm a kimchee fanatic too ;D ;D
As Habs said Inject them to 10 percent of the meats wieght, I have done to briskets now as corned beef, both were injected as per members here, they turned out great. I would like to try pastrami, but in this house it gets eaten before I can even get to that stage. :-[
Mick
As 3rensho states coarse ground is the way to go.
Here is my Beef Pastrami seasoning: (I no longer use white peppercorns)
Dry Rub Ingredients:
?3 TBS. coriander seeds (4 TBS. if you don?t have white peppercorns).
?2 TBS. black peppercorns
?2 TBS. yellow mustard seeds
?1 TBS. white peppercorns
?2 TBS. of granulated garlic
Makes enough rub for one brisket flat up to 7 lbs.
Directions:
Toast coriander seeds. Combine the first four ingredients, and coarsely grind in a spice grinder or coffee grinder; grinding each spice seperately works better. Pour ground mixture into a bowl, add the granulated garlic and remix. Apply the dry rub to the brisket generously, working the rub into the meat by pressing it in with the palms of your hands. Air dry in the refrigerator for 4 to 8 hours, or overnight before before placing it in the smoker.
Thanks Habanero!
I was going to wimp out and just boil them up as corned beef with some cabbage and potatoes but now I have to go for broke and do the pastrami thing! All I have on hand for smoking is Alder and Hickory, I assume the Hickory pucks will do? If not I seem to have alot of time to go yet so I could order in something different?
Thanks again!
Hickory works!
Hickory REALLY works!
Habs, why do you no longer use white peppercorns?
I smoke and then steam...vac and let rest..
For smoke hickory will work, I generally use pecan on brisket pastrami. The pastrami I made yesterday out of eye round, I decided to use oak. I haven't had a chance to taste it.
I'm not going to steam this batch. I took it to an internal temperature of 140?F. If I don't like the texture I may steam it. I probably get to it on Friday. I like to let it rest a couple of days before sampling, but that is optional.
Quote from: KyNola on December 28, 2011, 06:09:03 PM
Hickory REALLY works!
Habs, why do you no longer use white peppercorns?
You can still use them in the recipe. I didn't feel that they brought any thing extra to the taste. Also I should have mentioned that I don't add the extra coriander, if the white peppercorns are not used.
One more question while on the pro's are around. I made my brine according to the Corned Beef recipe and I noticed that the salt/sugar amounts are different (2 cups salt 1/2 cup sugar) than both Ruhlman's and Habanero's pastrami brine which use 1-1/2 cups salt and more sugar. Should I plan on soaking them a bit before I spice and smoke? I'm fairly salt tolerant tastewise but there is a point where too much is too much :P
Plan B would be to start another batch with the proper brine and plan on doing these as straight corned beef and let the cooking process take care of the extra salt?
This is going to be a long wait! I'm thinking I might want to have more than once batch going at a time anyway ;)
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on December 29, 2011, 01:42:25 AM
Quote from: KyNola on December 28, 2011, 06:09:03 PM
Hickory REALLY works!
Habs, why do you no longer use white peppercorns?
You can still use them in the recipe. I didn't feel that they brought any thing extra to the taste. Also I should have mentioned that I don't add the extra coriander, if the white peppercorns are not used.
Thanks for the explanation.
After taking it out of the brine, rinse them, then slice a piece off the end. Pan fry it to taste for saltiness. Keep in mind you test slice will be a little more saltier then the finished product. If it is too salty for your taste you can soak them.
Quote from: La Quinta on December 28, 2011, 12:01:11 AM
I go two weeks for corned beef...everytime...brined rinsed...in the smoker for 4 hours...finish in the oven...comes out fabulous every time...
La Quinta, please explain :D Sorry for another question but the "corned beef", "smoked", "oven" statement has me very curious ? Can I smoke my corned beef and do the usual boil/simmer or are you referring to the usual pastrami routine?
Thanks!
Robert..........
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on December 29, 2011, 01:03:17 PM
After taking it out of the brine, rinse them, then slice a piece off the end. Pan fry it to taste for saltiness. Keep in mind you test slice will be a little more saltier then the finished product. If it is too salty for your taste you can soak them.
Thanks Habanero ! Not sure which way to go yet but I'll get there eventually :)
Well, I've been inspired. Picked up a 4lb chunk of round for just over $8 today. Split it into two pieces just a lil over 2" thick and into the brine a few minutes ago. So....I figure sometime on Tuesday or Wednesday it'll be corned beef/pastrami sandwiches.
I am referring to corned beef...I steam pastrami....I am not a big one on "cooking" in the smoker...I usually like to finish inside the house...however...with a store bought already "corned" beef...I do it in a pot...on the stove...slow braise...
I am not sure if I answered your question however...
Quote from: La Quinta on December 30, 2011, 12:27:36 AM
I am referring to corned beef...I steam pastrami....I am not a big one on "cooking" in the smoker...I usually like to finish inside the house...however...with a store bought already "corned" beef...I do it in a pot...on the stove...slow braise...
I am not sure if I answered your question however...
I do my corned beef in a pot as well...we love the stuff at this house...it lasts about 2 days.
When I do pastrami I have the same problem...can't keep it around for more than a day or two. I don't steam my pastrami, I simply smoke it and slice paper thin for sandwiches.
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I did make it that way (no steam) but I rather like the addition of the steaming...seemed more moist to me but....what do I know!!! :-\
Quote from: La Quinta on December 30, 2011, 09:27:41 PM
I did make it that way (no steam) but I rather like the addition of the steaming...seemed more moist to me but....what do I know!!! :-\
Pastrami is supposed to be a little dry...that why you load it up with cabbage and mustard!
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Man what a long wait! Couldn't wait any longer so I pulled them today (12 days), still hadn't made up my mind so one went in the pot for dinner:
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/cb1-1.jpg)
Split the other half and test fried a piece as habanero suggested, great taste but a little salty so into 2 - 30 min soaks:
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/pas1.jpg)
Then Habanero's rub and out to the beer fridge overnight. Smoke in the morning and see how it turns out ;D
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/pas2.jpg)
Wee...was that one piece you cut in half?
La Quinta,
Yes the last two pieces are a half cut in half. Started out as a bit over 5lbs eye round. The cut in half lengthwise seems to make things about the same thickness as brisket. The 1/2 done as corned beef for dinner last was a thumbs up with the family :) First time for a non-brisket CB, interesting differences. Much leaner, denser meat, way less shrinkage when cooking, I'll be doing that again! (sorry, missed the pictures - its gone!)
For my future reference, is quartering these things the best way to go for corned beef/pastrami? Seems like the thickness is just about right but you end up with fairly small (~1-1/4lb) pieces but just halving it lengthwise would seem to be an unwieldy length unless trim off some?
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/P1010005-1.jpg)
How long will they be if you cut them length wise?
With the proper containers there wouldn't be a problem wet curing it. You would only need one container for both pieces. Or if you were able to wet brine the other ones in one gallon bags, a full length one should easily be brined in two gallon bags.
Also, if you cut them length wise, you will not need such a long curing time, and it also gives you the option of a dry cure.
Habanero,
The original round was close to 14" long, I'll definitely split them lengthwise for curing in the future and them decide if I want to shorten them to suit. I guess that's why all you guys have sausage grinders, takes care of the odd's and end's :)
Pastrami is out of the smoker and resting (3hrs hickory then 155F IT) , now I just have to wait a few more days :(
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/pas3.jpg)
Just enough of the corned beef left to slice up and do some CB reubens while I'm waiting :)
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/cb2.jpg)
Or if the next one is that long, just cut a 3 - 4-inch piece off the thin end and use it for stew meat, or stir fry. My cuts were around 11-inches in length.
I took my eye round to 142?F, it came out great. I think I prefer the eye round to brisket. The eye round gave enough beef flavor, and is more tender. The first few slices I mistakenly sliced with the grain and it was a little tough, but once I started slicing against the grain it was much more tender.
A few deli's around here use coleslaw on top of their pastrami sandwiches; along with Swiss cheese and mustard on rye. I made one the other day and it was good.
Oh! I forgot to mention your corned beef looks good.
I have been primarily using eye of round for my corned beef/patrami for awhile. My family prefers the leaness of this cut over the brisket, also many times find it cheaper!!
Daryl
Success, the pastrami turned out great! I will definately be doing this again, just my luck Costco was sold out of eye the other day when I checked :( Lots of lessons learned, I'll cut the salt back to 1-1/2 cups if I brine again, prepare the meat in ~2" thick slabs, buy a spice grinder!, slice thin, etc., etc. I think I'll try Habanero's dry cure next time and do a batch of Canadian bacon along with it. The two little pastrami's looked pretty lonely in my monster smoker!
Thanks everyone for the great advice!
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/pas4.jpg)
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h438/weedenb/pas5.jpg)
Good to here you were successful.
Some suggestions, if you use a wet cure next time. You may want to give some thought to placing the cuts in a container and not plastic bags. With the cuts approximately 2 to 3-inches thick, give some thought to cutting the curing time to maybe 3 - 5 days; the longer you brine the saltier it will be. Sam's sells 8 quart Rubbermaid food containers. One contain will probably cure multiple cuts of an eye round. If those containers are too large for your refrigerator, sometimes the carry 4 quart food container.
The 8 quart ones are the one I use and work great
Daryl