???I came across this site just recently. I have a passion for food and for creating my own from scratch. This looks like a good place to get answers where smoking is concerned. My questions may be to late for my most recent attempt (bacon). But I guess I'll find out from the experienced people here.
I bought a pork belly last Friday and was eager to start the curing process. Things came up that evening when I was planning on starting the cure...so I winged it...completely. I didn't measure the ingredients for the cure (though I'm decent at eyeballing ratios). I used just pink salt, Morton's Kosher Salt, brown sugar, and a couple ounces of honey to top it off (didnt have any pure maple syrup and, like I said, i was eager to get it started). I used more salt than sugar...probably 2:1
I didn't put the cured belly into a ziploc or Tupperware. I had an idea that came to me instead...but I'm now concerned if it was the right idea. I took out my Food Saver and vacuum sealed the bellies (5 lbs total, cut in halves). I thought I was being smart.
Well the next day the bellies had extracted a lot of liquid (all held within the vac seal...but easily moved around). I realize this is normal, but it leads to questions.
I've since read that dry-curing bacon requires a draining of this liquid everyday, along with a re-applying of the cure for approx 7 days. Well unless I cut open the seal to drain, the liquid is still there...sort of like its own marinade. Part of me thinks this is a good thing...another part tells me this isn't really 'dry-curing' since liquid is still in contact with the belly.
Do I need to take this out to give it a 'drier' environment to cure? Or is the dry-curing term really defined as 'not truly brining (submerging)' the meat?
That was question #1...are the bellies ok marinating in their own extracted liquid mixed with the dry cure...or should it be truly 'dry'?
Question #2 is this...I really piled on the cure...rubbed it on really good. It was thick. I'm now concerned it may end up being either too salty or too sweet. I'm guessing I can temper the saltiness by soaking it in water afterwards (prior to smoking). But something tells me that the initial cure reigns supreme. I may be able to take some away afterwards if necessary, but how much? And how do I know prior to smoking?
Question #3 is this....
I don't own a true smoker...my wife doesn't appreciate it like I do. I've converted my Weber Performer to a Pseudo-Smoker a few times...using hot water pans and soaked wood (I assume you guys know what I'm referring to). I've done ribs and chicken successfully this way...great smoke flavor. But something tells me it's not the same. My buddy has a Baby Stump model from Stumps Smokers and it produces awesome results. He's never done bacon, but is aware of my attempt and has offered his smoker to do the job (in return for some bacon of course...which I'd gladly share). Should I not mess around with the weber and take him up on his offer?
Sorry for the long initial post...just looking for feedback and eager to learn more about all things food. Thanks in advance...
Quote from: Sub80 on April 02, 2012, 07:34:28 AM
???I came across this site just recently. I have a passion for food and for creating my own from scratch. This looks like a good place to get answers where smoking is concerned. My questions may be to late for my most recent attempt (bacon). But I guess I'll find out from the experienced people here.
I bought a pork belly last Friday and was eager to start the curing process. Things came up that evening when I was planning on starting the cure...so I winged it...completely. I didn't measure the ingredients for the cure (though I'm decent at eyeballing ratios). I used just pink salt, Morton's Kosher Salt, brown sugar, and a couple ounces of honey to top it off (didnt have any pure maple syrup and, like I said, i was eager to get it started). I used more salt than sugar...probably 2:1
I didn't put the cured belly into a ziploc or Tupperware. I had an idea that came to me instead...but I'm now concerned if it was the right idea. I took out my Food Saver and vacuum sealed the bellies (5 lbs total, cut in halves). I thought I was being smart.
Well the next day the bellies had extracted a lot of liquid (all held within the vac seal...but easily moved around). I realize this is normal, but it leads to questions.
I've since read that dry-curing bacon requires a draining of this liquid everyday, along with a re-applying of the cure for approx 7 days. Well unless I cut open the seal to drain, the liquid is still there...sort of like its own marinade. Part of me thinks this is a good thing...another part tells me this isn't really 'dry-curing' since liquid is still in contact with the belly.
Do I need to take this out to give it a 'drier' environment to cure? Or is the dry-curing term really defined as 'not truly brining (submerging)' the meat?
That was question #1...are the bellies ok marinating in their own extracted liquid mixed with the dry cure...or should it be truly 'dry'?
Question #2 is this...I really piled on the cure...rubbed it on really good. It was thick. I'm now concerned it may end up being either too salty or too sweet. I'm guessing I can temper the saltiness by soaking it in water afterwards (prior to smoking). But something tells me that the initial cure reigns supreme. I may be able to take some away afterwards if necessary, but how much? And how do I know prior to smoking?
Question #3 is this....
I don't own a true smoker...my wife doesn't appreciate it like I do. I've converted my Weber Performer to. Pseudo-Smoker a few times...using hot water pans and soaked wood (I assume you guys know what I'm referring to). I've done ribs and chicken successfully this way...great smoke flavor. But something tells me it's not the same. My buddy has a Baby Stump model from Stumps Smokers and it produces awesome results. He's never done bacon, but is aware of my attempt and has offered his smoker to do the job (in return for some bacon of course...which I'd gladly share). Should I not mess around with the weber and take him up on his offer?
Sorry for the long initial post...just looking for feedback and eager to learn more about all things food. Thanks in advance...
Others with far more knowledge than I have will be along I'm sure, but I did want to comment on a couple of things. First of all, I feel you always want to measure your pink salt. You need to be very careful how much you use based on the weight of the meat. Secondly, it's not necessary to pour off the liquid that develops as a result of the curing process. I just work it around on a daily basis and put it back in the refrigerator.
Quick answer, the bellies are fine vac sealed "as is" but the rest of your post causes me real concern. You indicated you didn't measure anything for the cure. I assume you are including pink salt in your "I didn't measure anything". You go on to say that the cure was really piled on. Without proper measurement, meaning amount of pink salt per weight of the belly in a correct ratio, you are risking making people sick. If you don't know exactly how much pink salt went on the belly, I would throw it out
The smoker is the least of your problems.
The guy at the butcher said to use the entire package of pink salt that I bought. It was a small envelope...perhaps 1/2 cup. I didn't use all of it...maybe about half at most
When I referred to 'piling on the cure'...I meant the other ingredients.
For 5 lbs of pork belly you would have needed 2 teaspoons of pink salt. Sounds like you used around 1/4 cup?? Assuming 1/4 cup is close to being accurate in the amount you used, you used 12 teaspoons of pink salt. That's 6 times of the amount you needed.
Take a look at this recipe. The maple syrup is only an option. The correct amount of pink salt, kosher salt and brown sugar is shown. http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?542-Maple-Cured-Bacon
I'm not trying to be mean but I would throw it out. I would also find another butcher.
Appreciate the heads up...
I'll go look at the package I got from the butcher when I get home (I still have it)...I'll see how much was in it to begin with...that might be the confusion. If its as much as you say, I will toss it.
But what if it turns out that it's just slightly too much pink salt...or not enough for that matter. Does it have to be exact?
If it is only slightly over or under and by slightly I mean just that, "SLIGHTLY", I might risk it. Otherwise, when in doubt throw it out.
Don't mess with pink salt. We're talking a concentration of around 140-150 parts per million. In high concentrations it can cause health problems (cancer) or even be fatal. If there is the slightest doubt - toss it.
Concerning the juice forming in the vacuum pack that is fine. I just turn mine over every day and never pour off the accumulated liquid.
Don't use volumes to measure solids - salt, sugar, pink salt, etc. Bulk densities vary greatly!! Weight is the best choice by far.
I just checked the package size of the pink salt I got from the meat market. It was 4 ounces total (less than I estimated)...I used maybe half. So I think I used about 5 grams...maybe a hair over that.
Should I be concerned with that total?
4 ounces of cure is for 100 lbs of meat. 1 ounce is for 25 pounds of meat so if you used only 1/4th of what is in the package you are still WAY over the limit.
5 grams is only .17 ounce. If "I used maybe half" is correct you need to throw that belly away. It's not worth it. I'm not trying to insult you at all but with the unknown that you have in the amount of cure that was used, you are running a real risk.
I'll yield to other members who have more knowledge than me.
The boys have you covered here..
For 5 pounds of meat, anything over 2 teaspoons is too much. Cure #1 is some seriously potent stuff.
Like KyNola said, that 1/4 pound package would be enough cure a small freezer full of bellies.
If your butcher told you to use the whole package for 5 pounds of meat, either he didn't know what he was talking about, or he gave you something other the what the other members are referring to.
If he did give you pink salt (cure #1) only, then as the others have stated; the way you applied it was wrong. If you can go back and ask the butcher what exactly did he give you? Is it Cure #1? What ingredients are in the cure that he gave you? Does it have a brand name? or Is it the butchers own cure blend, that doesn't require any additional salt or sugar in order to apply it?
You used way to much cure.
Find another butcher.
No you dont have to change the brine, Its natural for the salt, cure to extract liquid from the meat.
I just did some bacon last weekend. I mixed up my math on weights etc and i was probably ok but why take a chance. Chucked the bellys and started over again. I figure better safe then sorry.
I stopped by the butcher and talked to the owner (not the guy I talked to previously). He said the guy was wrong to tell me to use the whole thing, but not by much. It must not be the stuff you guys are talking about. It must be a much lower concentration (or a mix with other salt, not sure) because he said he would've told me to use half for the pork belly size I bought. He said I should be fine. It's a mix they prepare there themselves.
I certainly would've tossed it otherwise...I appreciate the info here. I take it pink salt shouldn't be taken lightly.
I was hoping the butcher gave you a Bacon Cure Mix, that you would use at a much higher rate. Such as Morton's Tender Quick, Basic Dry Cure, Bradley Cures or hundreds of commercial mixtures on the market. I was also hoping the butcher was more knowledgeable about curing. This time luck was on your side, and you checked first before tossing it. So on the other hand, if it is a blend they make themselves, and you added additional salt, you may be looking towards a very salty bacon.
Curing your own meats is easy, but you need to know the fundamentals, and not just through stuff together. 3rensho summed it up best if you do not know what you are doing. Since you are just starting out, follow reputable recipes for know. To increase your knowledge in curing a nice book to purchase would be "Charcuterie" by Michael Ruhlman & Brian Polcyn.
This link will provide a quick summary of a few curing salts that are commercially sold; but the only "blend" listed would be the Morton brands (I put blend in quotes, because Cure #1 & 2 are blends of sodium nitrite and/or sodium nitrate with salt, but have an industry standard):
Curing Salts (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts&p=1126#post1126)
It looks like you are sorted and will survive your first bacon. Getting back to your original post: When you go to smoke the bacon let it dry in the fridge until it is tacky on the surface, it will take the smoke better that way - its called forming a pellicle. I would experiment with your friends smoker and your weber to see which turns out best - the weber method seems like a lot more effort though.
I also like to try experimenting with different recipes and dishes but always bear in mind that two things you can't mess around with when curing food is the quantities of cure and hygene - you have the potential to make people very ill otherwise.
Quote from: Waltz on April 03, 2012, 04:51:58 AM
It looks like you are sorted and will survive your first bacon. Getting back to your original post: When you go to smoke the bacon let it dry in the fridge until it is tacky on the surface, it will take the smoke better that way - its called forming a pellicle. I would experiment with your friends smoker and your weber to see which turns out best - the weber method seems like a lot more effort though.
I also like to try experimenting with different recipes and dishes but always bear in mind that two things you can't mess around with when curing food is the quantities of cure and hygene - you have the potential to make people very ill otherwise.
I appreciate all the posts here from Habenero, you Waltz, and the rest. I am a beginner when it comes to curing...but not to spices/runs in general...and certainly not to food and hygiene.
I know about the pellicle...I just smoked a perfect salmon (apple wood) last Sunday...the brine I used formed a nice one. I'm also constantly washing my hands...so this wasn't about lack of hygiene care. I was fully prepared to toss the bellies...but my gut told me to wait.
@ Habenero...I know my bacon is going to be salty...I like it that way. I also know I can soak it a bit afterwards to temper that a bit. It's about the process for me...I love the process of making my own food...whether its curing meat to smoke or making a kicked up Jambalaya. It's trial and error and I'm not afraid to learn from my own mistakes...in fact I think it's necessary. I will certainly look into that book...in my recent searches online I've seen it referenced before...and if an experienced person like you endorses it...well that's my kind of referral.
Thanks again guys...my main concern when I started this thread was my curing process with the fax seal and juices. Other concerns came up and I'm glad to have learned something new. I'll let you know how it turns out...
No-one has said "welcome to the forum" to you yet so; welcome to the forum. As you already know, there is a lot of good information and a lot of experienced people here and as you have seen, all very willing to comment and give advice. I was not meaning to imply you would be unhygenic but if you don't know to measure the cure carefully perhaps you would be unaware of other hazards, the curing and smoking process can hold foods at temperatures where bugs will grow quickly, no offence intended ;D. Let us know how you decide to smoke the bacon and how it turns out.
Quote from: Waltz on April 03, 2012, 08:39:49 AM
No-one has said "welcome to the forum" to you yet so; welcome to the forum. As you already know, there is a lot of good information and a lot of experienced people here and as you have seen, all very willing to comment and give advice. I was not meaning to imply you would be unhygenic but if you don't know to measure the cure carefully perhaps you would be unaware of other hazards, the curing and smoking process can hold foods at temperatures where bugs will grow quickly, no offence intended ;D. Let us know how you decide to smoke the bacon and how it turns out.
There was no offense taken Waltz...I've been married for 17 years...I have a thick rind :)
Just here for knowledge and to share...appreciate it...
I also forgot to say welcome to the forum.
Uh oh!! Me too. Welcome aboard. :)
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Ditto!
Now lets some some bacon pics! ;D
Welcome to the boards, there was a lot of great info in this thread. Hope to see some bacon pix