Hello All!!
I have been quiet for a while. I have cooked more port butts than I can count, thanks to all our help, but now I have a new question/issue.
I have some friends who have signed up for a friendly bbq contest and somehow have decided that I need to do the pork butts. The issue is that the way I cook them usually takes 24 hours depending on the piece of meat....but I will only have 24 hours total to have them ready to judge, including heating up bradley, rubbing pork butt, cooking, FTC, and pulling.
My usual method is to rub with CYM then Mr Brown rub then off to smoke that has been pre-heated. Cabin temp at 210, 3 hours of Maple and Apple smoke then finish smoke at the same 210 until IT of 193-195 and FTC for a few hours (with apple juice).
I have had different pieces of meat take as little as 19 hours, all the way to 26 hours just to come up to the correct IT in the smoker. 24 hours seems to be average.
QUESTION: What is your suggestion to get these prepped and done within the 24 hour constraint? Is just turning up the cabin temp going to do it and if so, what am I sacrificing?
I usually don't inject or sauce, except for vaunted vinegar sauce after pulling....so I am afraid turning up cabin temp will leave me with dry meat.
Thanks in advance.
Do you happen to have a fan mod or extra element? That may help with even cooking and temps times.
Quote from: OTB on April 09, 2012, 07:49:49 PMCabin temp at 210, 3 hours of Maple and Apple smoke then finish smoke at the same 210 until IT of 193-195 and FTC for a few hours (with apple juice).
I'd say ramp up that chamber temp a bit. I usually go with a setpoint of 220*F, sometimes 225*F, on a pork butt. Mine are never dry. I did a 10 lb butt last Friday and it was at 195*F in 12.5 hours.
How many butts are you smoking at once? That'll make a difference, too.
You can try the below technique. I haven't tried it, but the site is reputable, and I've seen reference to it form other reputable sites.
Understanding and Beating The Stall (http://www.amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/the_stall.html)
If you are going by internal temperature, you can crank you Bradley up as high as it can go, without having any effect on the final outcome (assuming you have a single element). You usually don't have to worry about your butts drying out unless you do an extreme over cook. You are more likely to make the meat mushy if you cook it too long and to too high of an internal temperature. All meat becomes pretty dry once it reaches and goes beyond 140°F. What gives pulled pork the feeling of being moist is when the collagen converts to gelatin it coats the meat meat fibers.
Since this is a competition, if you are changing the way you normally cook something you should always do a test trial.
Good luck! What is the prize? There is no greater prize than bragging rights. :)
I have done pork butts on my MAK at 275F and the were not dry.
Foiling at the stall helps with time, but IMHO results in softer bark.
Thanks for the replies. I was reading the thread about turbo cooking butts with the cabin at 260, I might try one this weekend as a trial run at around 240-250 and see what the results look like. I do not have any modifications to the digital smoker other than I use the Auber dual probe PID. I usually try to pull out of smoker at 193-195 and then FTC. I imagine I will probably be doing 4 butts which is a pretty big load.
It is funny that when I do that many butts in the smoker at the same time it us usually the biggest one that is done first and the smaller ones stall forever. Last time I had one big one done in about 14 hours and the smallest took 26 hours.
Next I need to do more research about the "money muscle" and presentation for judging.
The only prize I know of is bragging rights. We are really just competing to have fun and drink some beers. All of the funds from the competition go to a good cause (Mason's 4 Mitts) to buy at risk children baseball mitts and teach them to play baseball rather than join gangs...so win or lose it all is a worthwhile experience. I just don't want to not have anything to turn in because it is not done in time.
One thing to mention is that there is a safety switch in the Bradley that will trip at 260F in the OBS cutting power to the element for safety. I found that my cabinet temp had to drop down to around 220 F before it would reset itself.
Now maybe the digital Bradley is different but it is something to keep in mind.
I can tell you that my convection fan mod in my OBS made a huge difference in cooking times. Just like in a home oven I have taken 1/3 of the cooking time off of smoking butts.
Good luck at the comp and have fun!
That is a great prize, and the reward of helping at risk children is priceless.
I'm a competition judge, and last year the majority of pork that I judged was sliced pork from the shoulder; the year before it was pulled pork. If the organizers have no restraints on whether you enter pulled pork or sliced pork; then if you find you have run out of time you can enter the slice pork. So that may give you another option.
The sliced pork can be seasoned by either dipping the pieces in a thin warm sauce (like vaunted vinegar), or the sauce is "painted" on just before turning it into the judges; or sent in naked. If you know where the Money Muscle is located, that is the prime part of the shoulder that is turned in to be judged, but I have had slices from other areas of the shoulder that were prepared just as good.
If you find that the Bradley can not provide the heat you are trying to obtain, and you find that it is hovering around 200°F the full time. Try using the fork test. I feel (know) you can pull pork at a much lower internal temperature; and that is should be pulled at the lowest internal temperature possible. My theory is that is not just about the internal temperature, but how low it has been in the "zone" at which collagen breaks down into gelatin. You can always use the fork test to see if the butt is ready to pull, by inserting the fork and twisting. I start testing at around 175°F, and test every 5-degrees after that. You may be surprised. There may be more fat cap left, and pockets of fat; just remove prior to pulling.
Thanks for all the support and replies. I had been doing research about slicing the money muscle and pulling the meat around the bone and turn both in for judging. I will do a test run this weekend if we ever get done with these unusual CA thunderstorms. I was thinking of cranking the heat to around 250 and see what happens. Do you think that is too hot?
Also, I have never injected a pork butt. I have injected and brined other pieces of meat but I usually let it sit for time afterwards. I had read about injecting with the following: ¾ C Apple Juice, ½ C Water, ½ C Sugar, ¼ C Salt, and 2 TBSP Worcestershire.
I am a bit worried to start messing with flavors and injection right before the real cook.
Any thoughts.
I can only answer the question about the temperature. Cranking it up the cabinet to 250°F will be alright. As a certified judge, we are trained to look primarily for the pork flavor, the other flavors should enhance the pork, and not over power it. The criteria may be different by the judges of your competition.
Hopefully others that inject on a regular basis will provide more information. If you have time to experiment. I would give it a shot to try, but if you have been making consistently good pork; during the pressures of competition you may want to stick to what you are accustomed to doing.
OK. I just put two 8lb butts in the smoker and set it to smoke for 4 hours with Maple and Apple. I set the temp to 250, although I was rushed and didn't let it preheat enough, and set the PID to cook at 250 until IT of 195. I usually pull them out in the 190 range to FTC with some apple juice. I didn't brine or inject, just CYM and Mr Brown rub. I also did a little check of the money muscle. I believe it is the rounded muscle opposite the bone (actually runs the long side of the butt with is kind of next to the bone depending on how you look at it) . I will try to slice that and pull the rest. I put it in at 6PM PDT and will see how long it takes to finish.
Thanks for all the help and advice. Sorry, no pictures this time, I was in a rush. Just finished a garage sale to benefit the National MS Society.
You zeroed in on the money muscle, and it sounds like you have a good plan. For competitions it is always best to stick to what you have always been doing.
Is this going to be blind judging, or do the judges come to your site to judge while they ask questions?
Sorry for the delay in replying. So the first butt came out at 11:30 at an IT of 192 and the second one came out at 12:30 at and IT of 185. For these two I was in the 18-19 hour range. But each butt is different. They were both FTC until that evening when I got home and were pulled at about 7pm. I tried to remove the money muscle by slicing and it really started to fall apart. Not sure I would have been able to slice it. I tried with the other butt (which had hit 192IT) and there was no way to slice or remove it without it shredding apart. I got so frustrated with that part of it that I didn't even try to slice them...must have been too many beers but I just didn't have the patience to deal with them.
Also...the smoker never was able to get about about 120 even know I had the PID set to 150. It is too late for the coming weekend but I might want to look into the dual element mod. I actually have a spare element laying around but I am sure I don't want to risk trying to modify anything before Saturday.
Sorry things didn't go as well as you planned in your trial, but now you know you can cook the butts to a stage at which you can make pulled pork, well within the allotted time. Which was your original goal.
When you state the cabinet was able to get to 120 and you had the PID set for 150, are those typos? Did you mean 220 and 250?
The money muscle is like the rest of the shoulder in that if you go too high is makes for good pulled pork. As I mentioned in an earlier post, when you are smoking/cooking around 200°F you should start checking when the butts reach 175°F, to see if your butts are at the stage at which you can use it for pulled pork. I only have to take my butts to 175°F for pulled pork; occasionally just through 175°F, and I don't FTC them. When I prepare them I trim the fat cap to about 1/8".
If it is blind judging and you are preparing boxes to turn in, you can take the best parts of multiple butts and submit that. How much do you have to turn in for the judges? How is the food sent in for judging, if it is sent in? What criteria are they using to judge; is it just by taste only?
Sorry, that was a typo. The smoker, once pre-heated, stayed at most 220. I did have the PID set to 250.
This will be a blink judging. We are to turn in a container with enough for 7 judges and may be presented in at most three different ways (pulled, sliced, chopped). If I remember they are judging on taste and presentation....but I would have to look at the rules again. They are using KCBS rules.
I'm a KCBS judge and I know the three categories. I just needed to know how your were being judged before posting the below link. Going to that site will give you an idea of how to prepare your box for turn-in, and what some other teams are doing. I use this site during the off months to tune my skills in the "Appearance" category and get an idea of how my judging is compared to others.
You can view the turn-ins, but only KCBS certified judges can sign in to make comments. It is not the easiest blog to navigate around, but click on "Judge My Box"; you will see the most recent entries. Scroll down and on the right side of the screen you will see links to past entries.
BBQ-Critic (http://www.bbqcritic.com/index.html)
Thank you very much for the link and comments. I typically don't sauce, other than vaunted vinegar sauce, but I see everybody is saucing. I am not going to have the time to make my own sauce to put on the pork and if I sauce I would have to use store bought. Would you recommend a store bought (CA Region). I was thinking of thinning some sweet baby rays hot and sweet with some vaunted vinegar sauce to put on it.
You're welcome. Saucing is tricky, if there is too much sauce I will mark down on appearance. I like to see the meat; but depending on the individual judge it can go either way. I prefer no sauce. For the pork entries, the contests I have judged (New England, NY, NJ, PA, MD) I rarely seen them sauced, but often seen a sheen on them.
I judged a contest last Sunday, and it so happened a pit master was one of the judges at my table. He wanted to experience the judging aspect of a contest. During discussions between entries he was sharing some of his techniques. He doesn't like sauces, but he likes to give his entries a niece sheen. Just before he sends in his entries, he uses a small brush and paint the meat with a thin layer of warmed Agave, or honey. Sometimes he may thin it a little with apple cider or apple cider vinegar, but don't thin it too much or you won't get a good sheen. If you flavor the meat well enough with the vaunted vinegar sauce, maybe paint it with warmed honey thinned with a little vaunted vinegar to give it a sheen.
I just realized that I never gave a final report on how this turned out. I as able to get the two 9lb butts in at about 12:30pm. They came out of the smoker at 3am and into FTC. They pulled great. I did my best with the money muscle, but it pretty much fell apart. Next time I will listen to your 175 degrees advice. In hind sight I should have just pulled the money muscle instead of trying to slice it when it started falling apart. I included in the box pulled butt, chunked, and a bad attempt at slicing the money muscle.
This was a unique opportunity to actually meet with the judges and get immediate feedback from them since this was not a sanctioned event. They loved the taste and texture. One judge reached into the box and found the one piece of fat I had missed and dinged me on that. Another judge grabbed a big piece of bark and said the rub had too much pepper. They all wanted even more of the vaunted vinegar sauce and really loved the flavor it brought and liked the glaze that I made with honey and vaunted vinegar...just wanted more of the honey throughout the meat.
Being tired that morning, I didn't spend a lot of time and effort with garnish. We laid out lettuce and tried to make it uniform and have three distinct presentations of the meat. It shifted when we carried it up and we got dinged big time on garnish and presentation. They said the meats were too close together and that the lettuce was not uniform enough. They wanted it to look like a perfectly manicured lawn.
All in all, the help and advice I have received here made this a success. I don't really care that we got dinged big time on presentation for EVERYTHING we turned in. At the end of the day we took 12th place out of 18 teams. We were the only amateur team, everyone else was professional and had their rigs.
The interesting thing was that there were a few folks with custom trailer smokers but 95% of the teams all used WSM's with computer controlled fans etc (similar to our PIDS)
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
You did great. It sounds like the judges were overly critical. Sounds like an audition for Pit Masters, though I have run across a couple of judges like that in KCBS events. :) The last several times I judged KCBS events, the KCBS reps. have instructed the judges to ignore the garnish and only judge the meat for appearance. The only thing that we should be concerned with as it pertains to garnish, is to make sure no illegal garnish or foreign objects are in the box. With it not being a blind judging, judges could be friends with or have knowledge of team members who are competing, and that may influence their vote.
For the vaunted vinegar, I usually use about 2 cups (that is for a butt that has an uncooked weight of 6 - 8 pounds). The honey and vaunted vinegar glaze sounds good. I will definitely give that a try.
In the Northeast, more often then not you will see a lot of WMS's, but lately it looks like the Backwoods smokers are becoming more popular.