I butchered two hogs a couple of weeks ago and I decided to try Tenpoint5's recipe on one of the bellies. It's a 9lb belly that I managed to cut exactly in 4 1/2lb halves.
Here it is all gooped up and vacumn sealed for a week or so in the fridge.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/budman/BBQ/IMG_2409.jpg)
My wife hasn't been too crazy about my bacon so far, she says it's too smokey, so I decided to try this and I'm thinking of cold smoking it for 16 - 24 hours with maybe an hour of smoke.
What do you guys think about that?
Can you explain how this is possible?? Maybe I am missing something but this just does not make sense to me.
Quotecold smoking it for 16 - 24 hours with maybe an hour of smoke.
I'm not sure if it'll work on this one or not but I read at another site about smoking at 100° for 16 - 24 hours. Just thought I'd throw that out there for some opinions.
If I were you I would stick to the recipe as posted by 10.5. It is very good that way. Also I'm not sure if the vac seal is a good idea. The recipe calls for using a zip lock bag. You want to be able to mix the spices / juices around everyday to make sure every part of the meat gets an even treatment. I don't know if you will be able to do that with a vac sealed bag. Guess you will find out.
If you have smoked for 16 hrs before I can understand why your wife thought there was too much smoke. Just try the 10.5 recipe as is. I think you and your wife will like it. Good luck.
When I do bacon I use 150°F as my smoker temp right from the start till its finished. If you want less smoke than cut the smoke time to 1 hour or even less. It's really something you need to experiment with to see where everyone likes it. My self I smoke for 4 hours but thats me. Myself and a few friends I smoke for all like lots of smoke.
I have never tried smoking for an extended time, it was just a thought. I'll stick to the recipe as stated. I usually apply smoke for 2-3 hours, I love it but she doesn't. Just trying to see if I can make it to her liking also.
I don't have a ziplok bag that big so I used the vacunm bag, they didn't seal that tight. I can also take the vacumn off and just seal them.
What wood are you using for the smoke? I used maple and it is a very mild smoke. If you use something like Hickory it will be more pronounced.
I use maple or alder usually. It is good, the wife doesn't like a lot of smoke in her food, that's all.
The guys at work have benefited from that and they absolutely love it but I am always up for a change.
I agree with putitng these in a resealable bag ass opposed to the vac seal. It will allow the rub/salt/sugar to mix into the bellies and for it to cure better. I have done bacon bellies for 14-16 hours straight of cold smoke before. You can see ths results here. Not to toot my own horn but it is the best bacon I have ever tasted.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=29868.msg355694#msg355694
I have never tried it, but some members have stated, from their experience that vacuum sealing accelerates the curing process. To me it just seems like an extra step, to shave off a day of curing time.
If you want to apply the smoke during cold smoking, keep your cabinet below 90°F. I prefer to cold smoke at 70°F. Once you hit 100°F you are hot smoking. From what I am reading, it looks as if you got that information from a site that the person has a smoke house, and is using standard procedure for a smoke house. The Bradley is different, and you have to adjust your method. The Maple Cure recipe only calls for 2 hours of smoke. If you are using more then that, try cutting your smoke time to 1:40 - 2:00 hours.
Unless you have a reason to cold smoke the bacon for 16 - 24 hours, and apply only one hour of smoke. Is there a reason to hold it in the smoker at 100°F for 16 - 24 hours without smoke? Are you trying to reduce the moisture in the bacon to concentrate some of the flavors.
It's called being an amature Hab and throwing ideas out there. lol
I don't know what type of smoker the guy has at the other site but I have a PID controlled fridge smoker.
I can pretty much set it for what I want and it will hold there.
I pretty much only vacuum seal my bacon now, but as stated a normal 7 day cure will be reduced to 5 days. The salt is perfect at that amount of time. I've even gone 4 days but the salt is a little light (personal preference). I also ONLY cold smoke bacon, I no longer cook the bacon. Best I've found is 10hrs of maple on the maple bacon recipe. Vacuum sealing and cold smoking has taken the amount I can do per session from about 5-7 lbs to 20 lbs because my little smoker doesn't have to cook it.
Corey
I have vac sealed bellies and I have placed them in the 2.5 gallon ziplock bags. If the belly will fit in the vac bag, that is my preferred method. I think it better insures constant contact with the curing "brine" that forms in the bag and the vac bags are not as prone to leaking like a ziplock bag that doesn't seal completely(don't ask me how I know that :o.) I hot smoke the belly at 200 degrees to an IT of around 150, with approximately 3 hours of smoke. I like the outcome but everyone has their personal preference.
(http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/lnjrudolph/DSCN0530.jpg)
(http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr340/lnjrudolph/DSCN0668.jpg)
I am still totally confused with "cold smoking it for 16-24 hours with maybe an hour of smoke". Can someone more knowledgeable than me please explain this method to me as I am apparently too thickheaded to "get it". Does that mean you are going to hold the belly in the smoker for 16-24 hours at a temperature under 100 degrees and during that entire period only apply 1 hour of smoke? What is the logic behind the method? Not criticizing, I honestly don't understand it.
Not taking away from this thread, but Larry that's some good lookin' bacon ya got there!!!
Larry from reading this and doing very little research I would venture to guess that it does dry the bacon out thus sort of condensing the flavors of the bacon.
Myself I tend to follow the recipe since it does work rather well and has worked rather well for myself and several others
Speaking of drying out, I have found that after a 10hr cold smoke the slabs have a good sweat on them, any more than the 10 hrs and I could see the corners of the meat drying out.
16-24hrs is way out of the question, besides I don't see ay reason to hold bacon in a cold smoke situation and not be smoking. When my smoke is done, I'm right there to bag things up and into the fridge.
I always slice the next day after the slabs has rested overnight.
Corey
Hi Wyrman,
if your wife doesn't like a smokey flavor you can always forgo the smoke all together.
As long as you are working with safe curing times and cooking temps.
I may be wrong on this so someone correct me please, but isn't that what pancetta is?
I'll have to look that up :)
Carolyn
I found this:
http://www.cookthink.com/reference/1021/What_is_pancetta (http://www.cookthink.com/reference/1021/What_is_pancetta)
Not knowing the equipment that was used in the reference in wyrman's post; and not being that familiar with old smoke house techniques; if it is a traditional smoke house (or if one is using a recipe for use in a smokehouse) the drying times could be up to 3 days, but generally the drying time is within 24 hours. The amount of smoke applied depend on if it is a light of heavy smoke (smudge). It is hot smoking when you use temperatures between 100 - 180°F.
When I make triple smoke bacon, I apply 3 hours of smoke each day, and the rest of the time I hold the bacon between 70 - 90°F to reduce the moisture and concentrate the flavors. Since I'm cold smoking, I have never come across any part of the belly drying out.
Carolyn, you are 100% correct. Though what I have found, if I cook food in the Bradley I will still get a small residual taste of smoke to the food, but it is very light.
Here's a link to my smoker.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=26270.15
So Hab, you've made bacon without the smoke before?
If so, how did it turn out? I'll throw some smoke at this and I don't have any problem following the recipe but I have three more bellies to do and I may try the cold smoke with them.
I'm just experimanting to see if I can find something that we both can't live without. lol
Only bacon I have made that I didn't smoke is pancetta. I sorry for the confusion if you thought I cooked bacon in the Bradley without smoke. I was doing something else when I notice that one would get a residual smoke taste even when you do not apply smoke. I was using the Bradley to warm up a dessert, I believe it was a pan of peach cobbler. I left it uncovered, and when I took it out to serve, I and my guests did detect a slight smoke flavor. Now when I use it to warm up food, or to maintain food at a certain temperature; I will cover it in foil.
If you cook your bacon in the Bradley, without applying smoke; I'm sure the smoke flavor will be so little, it will barely be detectable. It will be like unsmoked bacon that you can purchase commercially, but the flavors will be better. If you cold smoke and keep your temperatures lower then 90°F, but higher then 70°F, keep in mind that cold smoking tends to impart a stronger smoke flavor, so you may want to cut down on the amount of smoke.
Hi,
I've been poking around looking for some ideas for non-smoked bacon
Here's a pancetta recipe:
http://www.chow.com/recipes/10699-chow-pancetta (http://www.chow.com/recipes/10699-chow-pancetta)
And here's a recipe for bacon that is cooked in the oven, you could forgo the wood part and it wouldn't pick up the wood smoke from your smoker since it is done in the oven:
http://www.chow.com/recipes/30156-oven-smoked-bacon (http://www.chow.com/recipes/30156-oven-smoked-bacon)
Hope this helps :)
Carolyn
Well the biggest reason I wouldn't is The 40-140 for 4 hour rule. I just don't think it would be safe. Now cold smoking may be ok not sure. But if you cold smoke its not going to condense the flavors like a hot smoke. Just MHO
Quote from: viper125 on November 16, 2012, 08:32:41 AM
Well the biggest reason I wouldn't is The 40-140 for 4 hour rule. I just don't think it would be safe. Now cold smoking may be ok not sure. But if you cold smoke its not going to condense the flavors like a hot smoke. Just MHO
This is not criticism but I'm trying to obtain more understanding about this 40 - 140°F within 4 hour rule. I never heard of this until it was posted on this forum about a year ago, and only found one reference on one site. The bacon is cured, so that will eliminate any concerns of food safety.
Cold smoking over a lengthy period of time will definitely reduce moisture and concentrate the flavors, but you need to be careful, if you go too long the salt flavor also becomes more concentrated and you don't want to end up with a salt like. The first 2.5 days of my triple smoke bacon, the bacon remains as a temperature between 70 - 90°F, and it looses a lot of moisture during this time. If you are referring to the intensity of smoke flavor. Smoke penetrates deeper, and produces a stronger flavor while you are cold smoking. The hotter the temperature the characteristics of smoke to penetrate and adhere to the surface decreases.
Well its all about bacteria and them growing between that time. I was told that curing doesn't kill it all and if left between those to temps four hours it could cause trouble. I have read it in dozens of places and figure it is so easy to do why take the chance? So no matter what Im smoking I try to do it that way. And I think I asked that when I first read it when I started here. LOL!
Thanks for your feedback. I'll keep looking, maybe I'll find some more information, but I've never seen that for cured meats it was required to bring the internal temperature to 140°F within four hours. That would almost eliminate all cold smoking. When I make pancetta, after it is cured I hang it at in an environment at around 65°F for about six days, and that is the most common way to make it.
https://www.unf.edu/shs/Self_Help_-_Stomach_Flu_and_Food_Poisoning.aspx
Goggle the 40 to 140 rule and you'll see a lot. from smoking sites and government.
Actual typed 40-140 rule here on the site and there is a lot of talk on it. Not sure if im right or not ive always been told meat in the 40-140 range over 4 hours is dangerous and ground especially. Ive heard it explained many ways even 2 hours at that. Or the thick part staying their or even the surface. But ground meat is always been said to me 40 - 140 for less then 4 hours. Not arguing just what ive always been told. I would appreciate any one who could elaborate more on it. I see where some of our more popular members have said it also. So you have me wondering! ;D
I smoked the bellies up today. I followed the recipe as written. I didn't get any pics yet as I was pretty darn busy prepping for T-day. I'm going to slice on Friday, I'll post back then.
Quote from: viper125 on November 21, 2012, 03:30:43 PM
https://www.unf.edu/shs/Self_Help_-_Stomach_Flu_and_Food_Poisoning.aspx
Goggle the 40 to 140 rule and you'll see a lot. from smoking sites and government.
Thanks for the time you put into researching this, but what you are linking me to is not the guidelines I am questioning. I'm very familiar with the Danger Zone being between 40 - 140°F (that is now being looked are for revising the 140°F to a lower temperature); which according to USDA guidelines the dangerous temperatures are 41 - 139°F. I'm also knowledgeable with their reheating guidelines. I have written about the danger zone quite a lot on this forum.
What I am questioning is your your reference that when you are cooking food the internal temperature of food cannot stay between 40 - 140° for more then 4 hours; especially pertaining to cured meats.
I don't want to distract form this thread, it would be better to start another post in area for discussion.
It doesn't bother me Hab. Keep on if you guys want, it's interesting.
No Habs is right! Some times I get a thought and start writing before I think. Didn't mean to do that. Sorry was just trying to help.Happy Thanksgiving to all! God Bless you all!
I finally got around to slicing it up this morning. I cooked some for breakfast also and it's a keeper! My wife really likes it and I do also.
I wasn't sure as I don't like the store bought maple bacon but this wasn't even close.
I got seven packages of twelve.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/budman/IMG_2410.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/budman/IMG_2413.jpg)
Glad to read your wife liked it. How much smoke and which bisquettes you decided to use?
I only put an hour of maple smoke on it. I did this in a fridge smoker also.
nice lookin bacon ya got there! Everyone wins!
Very nice Bacon! Love homemade bacon! So much better then the stores. Haven't even made any cold smoked yet! As the wife likes it smoked so its just heat and go. But may try some too!
here is my staple goto bacon ..I have done well over 100lbs and I do cold smoke this is just the brine version I posted in anouther group my dry rub I will share asap
OK, so let's start with a 5 lbs pork belly. This is the easy 3 day brine. You can leave it longer but no more than 5. You will need:4 cups of sea salt2 cups of brown sugar1/2 cup of chilli flakes1/4 cup of crushed black pepper in say 4 to 5 liters of water150ml of molassesA dash of cayanne pepperFreshly ground black pepperA large zip-lock type plastic bag (you may want to also have an additional container to put everything in case of leaks). Alternatively, you can use a plastic container as long as it has a lid and a soup bowl with water in it to weigh down the meat. The meat must be turned every day for 3 days. Let it air dry to get the Pellicule formed (this does two things: stops the site getting to the meat and makes the smoke hold better). This takes a while and I like to leave it overnight with a fan going (see pics). Cut a bit off and check the meat. If you cook it up at this stage it is called green bacon. If you find it is too salty (remember you do need salt though as no chemicals were used – a grey area with some) leech it in cold water. If you did 3 days do it for 2 hours dry and check. Add an hour for each day. Grind pepper into the fat cap and press down into that fat. For cold smoke: 10 to 12 hours. For hot smoking: it takes about 4 hours to hit the IT of 150. Do not go over the IT of 150. Let air dry again and vacuum seal whether done hot or cold. It is good in the fridge for 5 days (they say 2 weeks but never had any around that long). Private Message me for any questions.