Hello all,
Been planning the deck out back and decided I am going to put in an outdoor kitchen. Here is what I am thinking -
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q636/kiltedcandyman/Outdoorkitchen.jpg)
The pizza oven is going to be home built from - http://www.traditionaloven.com/pizza_wood_oven/pizza_oven_3.html
Any advise or wanting would be appreciated.
Jim
Can't tell if you already have it but I would include a stainless steel work section on one or both of the counters near the grills/smokers
This is rough idea. Probably starting next January for building this. Going to start with the plant beds and than plan the additional of the concrete needed for the deck. That will be done by professionals.
The counter top I was considering was concrete but I was planning an area between the fryer and the grill. The tank would be below the counter so that area would be open for plates and such.
Jim
Looks really good (but I can't understand why you have "Flower Garden" written in the places that should be labeled, "Refrigerator" and "Bar.")
Ditto what Ka said!!! I would like an outdoor kitchen of my own someday.
I'd add an RV/concession trailer sized 3 well sink, plenty of SS work area per GusRobin, and every d@mn thing Ka Honu mentioned above..
And fire extinguishers. Lots of them.
And where is the flat screen television? Gotta have a flat screen! And a karaoke machine ;)
Quote from: Drac on December 02, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
The counter top I was considering was concrete but I was planning an area between the fryer and the grill. The tank would be below the counter so that area would be open for plates and such.
Jim
I'm kinda with you on this... I love the idea of polished concrete as a worktop.... as soon as I read that I said "yeah"... do that....
(but I can't understand why you have "Flower Garden" written in the places that should be labeled, "Refrigerator" and "Bar.")
I am a happily married man and plan to remain so. Kicking the wife off her porch to turn it into an outdoor kitchen will not go over well. I don't spend any more time outside in the sun than absolutely necessary. So to say that she needs to find somewhere else to sit, enjoy the outdoors and her gardens need to go... let's just say it wouldn't end well.
I'd add an RV/concession trailer sized 3 well sink
Sink is the really the biggest negotiable issue in the whole kitchen. I added it while throwing stuff out but not sure about it as the indoor kitchen is right in through the door, lees than a 10' walk. Also have no real place to drain it.
plenty of SS work area per GusRobin
Probably between the grill and fryer. It will be about the only counter space available. The diagram is fairly close to size, done up on a graph. The squares for the path (red) are 1'x1' so you can see there isn't as much room as I would Like (is the ever?) so I have to make due. Can't go further out into the yard due to a structure.
And fire extinguishers
Check, double check, and triple check. Already have one in the regular kitchen and shop. Will mount one outside too, once I get it done and make sure I find one rated for sitting in Texas summer heat. Doubt that will be too much of a problerm.
Jim
For fire extinguishers, look at the Class K extinguisher. The canister is chrome. They are designed and required for restaurant kitchens where grease fires are the norm. You have a turkey fryer and therefore will need that type of extinguisher. Just sayin ;D
Looks great Drac, I'm planning one in the future myself. My suggestions would be a fireplace in/with the pizza oven (probably a given, but it isn't mentioned), a refrigerator, and with all those cooking/fire/heating stations I would probably go with paving stones rather than a wood deck.
Be sure and do a post with picture updates when you get started! Good luck.
Carl
RE: the turkey fryer. If it is just to fry turkeys, have you looking into the Charbroil line of Big Easy oil-less (infrared) fryers? Much easier cleanup, less of a fire hazard, and great moist turkey.
Hoping to fry wings, chickens and other things occasionally but also want the heat source for doing a wok. Fryer burner is a great heat source that a normal burner just can't generate.
Jim
Drac
You really need to rethink the Fridge. 10' is a long way if you have to make many trips plus you need a place for the Adult Beverages.
Not necessarily an outdoor kitchen but my patio.
Ok, got the pics in Photo bucket but can't remember how to get them here... HELP!!!!!
I know you guys are going to disown me since I will be classified as whipped but need to make sure Amy is happy with this and taking over the whole deck and kicking her to the curb isn't going to go over well. AS it is going to probably lose the sink since we were talking and she (looking out to sell the house in 10 years) thought the oven jutting out at a weird angle probably won't go over well. Had to admit that it does make things look sloppy so here is take 2-
(http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q636/kiltedcandyman/Kitchen2.jpg)
Really hoping to get the oven as small as possible (there are only two of use after all) but most of the ones I saw looked between 6'-8' square so "budgeting" 7' for now. Also may get the surface over the Bradley for the SS top. Do want to have that space below so I can change the configuration for hot or cold smoking. Also agree that wood may not be the best idea around so many sources of fire ;D
Jim
Robert, if you click on the direct link and than type something in the reply box. Than click preview, up at the top will be a small icon that looks like a picture. Click there and paste the info in between the
Jim
Quote from: Drac on December 02, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
This is rough idea. Probably starting next January for building this. Going to start with the plant beds and than plan the additional of the concrete needed for the deck. That will be done by professionals.
The counter top I was considering was concrete but I was planning an area between the fryer and the grill. The tank would be below the counter so that area would be open for plates and such.
Jim
Drac,
I would advise against concrete countertops. It's porous and subject to fissure cracking and lends itself to unsanitary food conditions because of that. It has to be sealed and disinfected on a regular basis when you're using for food service. Even with sanitizing, is the disinfectant getting completely in the fissures? Most likely not. Spending an inordinate amount of time maintaining countertops is not something I would look forward to. I'm a remodel contractor specializing in kitchen and bath. There are other surface materials much better suited for food service.
Quote from: Drac on December 03, 2012, 08:24:54 AM
I know you guys are going to disown me since I will be classified as whipped but need to make sure Amy is happy with this and taking over the whole deck and kicking her to the curb isn't going to go over well.
Not by me. Here in the south we have a saying that goes something like "Make mama happy. When mama is happy, everyone is happy"
QuoteDo want to have that space below so I can change the configuration for hot or cold smoking.
Think about setting up the Bradley "permanently" in a cold smoke setup. You can both hot or cold smoke from the setup. I have recently done that and find it very convenient. Part of it is that I built a bigger cold smoke box. But it is nice to be able to do things like change the water, etc without having to open the cabinet and let all the heat out.
Jim
[/quote]
True but with it being uncovered outdoors I can't use standard counter tops and my budget can't afford custom granite stainless over the entire surface. Tiled leaves me with the same issue of sealing and cracks. Is there another option?
Jim
Quote from: Robert Rose on December 03, 2012, 08:15:10 AM
Not necessarily an outdoor kitchen but my patio.
Ok, got the pics in Photo bucket but can't remember how to get them here... HELP!!!!!
Robert, If they're already in photobucket just hover over the picture and you'll see a drop-down menu come up. Click the bottom one, the IMG code. It will be copied. Now open a new brouser so you can go back and forth easy to post multiple pics if you want. In your reply box just right click, and paste, and the IMG code will appear, but when you preview or post, the picture should come up. Hope that helps.
Carl
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a595/RobertRoseTx/DSCN0067.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a595/RobertRoseTx/DSCN0069.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a595/RobertRoseTx/DSCN0070.jpg)
(http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a595/RobertRoseTx/DSCN0071.jpg)
Excuse the mess we have been working on it some and still have some changes that we are going to do. The counter top on the back wall has a sink in it but we are planning to move it around to the other side where the smoker is and add a full size fridge where the wood stove is setting. That way all the cooking equipment is in the same area.
Just was getting a pricing from a concrete person... ouch.
Looking at $3200-$3500 for the slab. Recommends pulling up old 4" slab and replacing it when the new section is poured as the oven will need beams under it to hold the weight. Not only as a safety in case of shifting but also as the weight of a kitchen done with cinder blocks and facing is pushing the weight bearing load of 4". The oven blows it away as it will definitely have to be reenforced.
Starting to save the pennies.
Jim
Quote from: Drac on December 03, 2012, 12:02:41 PM
Just was getting a pricing from a concrete person... ouch.
Looking at $3200-$3500 for the slab. Recommends pulling up old 4" slab and replacing it when the new section is poured as the oven will need beams under it to hold the weight. Not only as a safety in case of shifting but also as the weight of a kitchen done with cinder blocks and facing is pushing the weight bearing load of 4". The oven blows it away as it will definitely have to be reenforced.
Starting to save the pennies.
Jim
You know (1) they do deliver pizzas (2) can cook a pizza on a pizza stone in a MAK, green egg, etc (3) $3200 buys a lot of grill and a lot of adult beverages. ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Drac on December 03, 2012, 12:02:41 PM
Just was getting a pricing from a concrete person... ouch.
Looking at $3200-$3500 for the slab. Recommends pulling up old 4" slab and replacing it when the new section is poured as the oven will need beams under it to hold the weight. Not only as a safety in case of shifting but also as the weight of a kitchen done with cinder blocks and facing is pushing the weight bearing load of 4". The oven blows it away as it will definitely have to be reinforced.
Starting to save the pennies.
Jim
Can't you use a fiber glass reinforced concrete. That is what they generally use in my area, and generally you don't needto use reinforcement bars.
About a month ago I was pricing some concrete counter tops, instead of using marble. The concrete is polished smooth, and looked like marble; but the final cost for my project was more then marble.
Gus... He can buy a lot of pizza for 3200 dollARS
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on December 03, 2012, 02:17:22 PM
Quote from: Drac on December 03, 2012, 12:02:41 PM
Just was getting a pricing from a concrete person... ouch.
Looking at $3200-$3500 for the slab. Recommends pulling up old 4" slab and replacing it when the new section is poured as the oven will need beams under it to hold the weight. Not only as a safety in case of shifting but also as the weight of a kitchen done with cinder blocks and facing is pushing the weight bearing load of 4". The oven blows it away as it will definitely have to be reinforced.
Starting to save the pennies.
Jim
Can't you use a fiber glass reinforced concrete. That is what they generally use in my area, and generally you don't needto use reinforcement bars.
About a month ago I was pricing some concrete counter tops, instead of using marble. The concrete is polished smooth, and looked like marble; but the final cost for my project was more then marble.
When concrete is freshly poured, it is the biggest it will ever be. As it cures, it shrinks. The shrinking causes crazing and hairline surface cracking. It's inherent in the material, and you can't get away from it. Concrete has great compressive strength, but little tensile stength. Rebar gives concrete tensile strength. Fiber reinforced concrete helps control the crazing, but won't prevent it. You also have these little "hairs" of fiber that stick out of the surface after finish trowelling. That's ok for a garage floor, they'll eventually wear off, or you can burn them off with a weed burner, but not so nice to deal with on a counter top.
If you look closely at the surface you'll see the tiny cracks, with a magnifying glass you'll see a whole lot more. Polishing to a mirror finish won't make them go away, it just camouflages them. Temperature changes make the concrete expand and contract and the crazing does too.
There is some inexpensive granite available. There's not much character to it, but if that's not important it might work for you. My granite fabricators have 3 different granites that cost $40/sq.ft. installed. They also have a remnant yard with leftovers from previous jobs that are much less expensive/sq.ft than the whole slab was. You might find a local fabricator that works.
There's also man made quartz (quartz granules mixed with a resin). It's actually stronger that granite. Brand names- Cambria, Silestone, Caesarstone to name a few.
Corian-the next great thing after plastic laminate, but fell out of favor when granite became popular. It's durable and sanitizes easily and is still made.
Cheers!
The reenforcing in this case is beams. The person I contacted had experience in pizza ovens. If even one palate of facing material (brick or stone) will run out at 1500 lbs. Most of the time it takes closer to two. That is a lot of weight to support on a corner. Another major problem (especially in North Texas with our black gumbo) shifting soil.
On the counter top I had forgotten about Corian. That would hold up to Texas heat and weather. Not as well as granite but like that may not be in the budget. It would be a counter or the oven most likely.
Jim
I. Was planing a pizza oven until I purchased a large BGE and pizza stone. It works great .
Only 850.00 and no reinforced base needed. Can easily be moved out of way when not being
Used.
That is going to be quite a well planned outdoor kitchen. I now see why you need the reinforcement.
Salmonsmoker;
When my brother had a huge slab; 28' x 60' poured, they used fiber glass reinforce concrete. A few days after it was poured, but before it cured, the contractor came back and used a power tool to score the concrete at specific intervals to about 1/2" depth. This provided for expansion/contraction and it helps prevents the cracking. After the building went on it, there hasn't been any noticeable cracks.
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on December 04, 2012, 02:24:44 AM
That is going to be quite a well planned outdoor kitchen. I now see why you need the reinforcement.
Salmonsmoker;
When my brother had a huge slab; 28' x 60' poured, they used fiber glass reinforce concrete. A few days after it was poured, but before it cured, the contractor came back and used a power tool to score the concrete at specific intervals to about 1/2" depth. This provided for expansion/contraction and it helps prevents the cracking. After the building went on it, there hasn't been any noticeable cracks.
Habs,
That's proper procedure for pouring a slab. The tiny surface fissure cracks from curing that I mentioned in my earlier post are still there. Those are the problem with sanitation. Bacteria gets in those cracks and sanitizers can't reach it. We have the same type of problem in brewing. The most microscopic scratch in a plastic or other type container- invisible to the naked eye, is big enough to harbor bacteria that the sanitizer "misses" resulting in a contaminated batch of beer. Most beer bacteria aren't health harmful, but raw chicken juice in a concrete slab is something I'd steer away from.
Well my area of expertise. My father was a concrete man for 40 years. Always use re bar or wire screen even with fiberglass imbedded concrete mix.
THATS HOW I DO IT
BTW
Nice setup Drac
So Drac, Is that $3200 quote just for the pizza oven foundation, or the whole floor area as well? Seems pretty steep for just the pizza pad.
Are you going to buy a pre-maid pizza oven, have it made on site, or make it yourself? I've always thought they were cool, but I don't think I'd use it enough to justify the expense. I'm thinking outdoor fireplace instead for mine.
On the counter top, you might keep your eye out for restaurant equipment auctions. Like when they close down etc. I have a friend that got an 8' stainless with sink for $400 at one. Just a thought.
The cost is for the whole 17'x17' slab. I might get by with the original 4" where the oven isn't but that is a might. I am planning to use cinder blocks for building the kitchen. With that and the facing it will be at the edge for weight. When you add the two slabs could move separately due to the shifting soil it is better just to have it all done as one and all reenforced with the beams.
I will build it using the plans from here - http://www.traditionaloven.com/pizza_wood_oven/pizza_oven_3.html I am planning to use it for more than just pizza though. It is an oven so roasting, bread, ect are all possible in it. The plus side is that the oven won't heat up the house during the 100+ days of summer. Yeah, I could buy a lot of pizza for the price of this project but when you get down to it I could have bought a lot of bacon for the price of the Bradley plus all the supplies. I doubt I save any money making it at home and there are several places to get smoked bacon that is as good, my butcher for one.
I like to cook.
Another plus is that if we do sell the house an outdoor kitchen renovation has the best return of any outdoor project, 100-200% if done right.
Jim
Jim when all is said and done. It doesn't matter which way you go or who's idea/information you followed. You still only have to impress (Get approval) from one person. Your WIFE!!
I'm right there with you. I'll be starting mine in the spring to include a pizza oven from the Chicago pizza oven company.
Quote from: Drac on December 03, 2012, 08:56:44 AM
True but with it being uncovered outdoors I can't use standard counter tops and my budget can't afford custom granite stainless over the entire surface. Tiled leaves me with the same issue of sealing and cracks. Is there another option?
Jim
www.solidsurface.com (http://www.solidsurface.com) sells whole sheets or fragments of many kinds of countertop materials. I just made a small outdoor counter from Meganite fragments.
Quote from: Grouperman941 on December 04, 2012, 02:57:07 PM
Quote from: Drac on December 03, 2012, 08:56:44 AM
True but with it being uncovered outdoors I can't use standard counter tops and my budget can't afford custom granite stainless over the entire surface. Tiled leaves me with the same issue of sealing and cracks. Is there another option?
Jim
www.solidsurface.com (http://www.solidsurface.com) sells whole sheets or fragments of many kinds of countertop materials. I just made a small outdoor counter from Meganite fragments.
Good post Grouperman. The Meganite is the same material as Corian, one of several different brand names after Corian's patent expired.
Drac, if you have the skills, you can even work with this material yourself. Bonding is done with a catalytic resin that is tinted to match the color of the product and has a relatively short cure time. The one draw-back of this material is it can't handle something very hot(like a pot) on the surface. The heat causes very rapid expansion where the pot is and the material will crack. The good news is you can cut out the damaged area and snuggly fit a patch with tinted bonding agent, do a polish and you can't find the patch. Using potholders or trivets to place hot items on pretty much makes this draw-back go away. I have a Corian sink cutout that I've had since 1988 that I use for a fillet board and it's still in great shape. I'll have it 'till I can't clean a fish anymore. :'(
That is going to be one nice pizza oven, and overall outdoor kitchen.
Salmonsmoker;
Thanks! Your posts on concrete have been very informative. I'm now glad I didn't get the concrete counter top. I'll refocus on the granite counter top.