I've had 8.5lbs of 2 1/4'' deer sausage going since last night. They've been in the smoker for 16 hours and seem to have stalled a couple of times. Once in the low 140's and for the last 3 hours at 147. i just bumped my cabinet temp to 180 degrees at the bottom of the smoker from 175.
Do you guys think this is normal? I can't seem to get to 152. How long is it safe to continue? I do have cure in the meat of course.
Thanks! I hope to have pics if I ever get done!
Well, I guess I spoke too soon. I'm at 149 now. I hope they make it to 152! Casings are starting to wrinkle up. I hope they aren't dried out...
I thought I remember reading somewhere opening / shutting the door helps too but can't find it. Is this true or am I dreaming that up?
Your going to think twice before eating?
16 hours for 8.5 lbs is a long time and not getting to a safe IT.
(http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab242/nepas1/chart.jpg)
STLstyle
If you used the proper amount of cure #1 your food is perfectly safe.
That's why I'm asking your advise. Your graph shows 138 is the magic number correct? I got past there pretty quick. it seems I've been in the 140's an extended period though.
What's your opinion please?
Thanks nepa / Habs. Wonder why I'm not getting to 152? Not enough cabinet temp? Only thing I can figure is I have a large variance from bottom to top o cabinet...
Quote from: STLstyle on March 24, 2013, 01:36:18 PM
That's why I'm asking your advise. Your graph shows 138 is the magic number correct? I got past there pretty quick. it seems I've been in the 140's an extended period though.
What's your opinion please?
My opinion is of my own experience doing smoked sausage. I had 1 time where the SS took almost 20 hours, I didnt like the time so i tossed it. Others who think they know all I'm sure will disagree and say your safe.
If it was me i would chalk it to 8.5 lbs of 50/50. Do i play it safe and toss it or go for it and its OK. The end is your call.
The graph is not of my making and put out there by an EXPERT in the field. Not just a bunch of mumbo jumbo hear say.
So you are saying that that chart applies meats that are cured and sausage with nitrite added? If so I don't see it in that chart. Processed foods does not mean cured. It looks like the standard food safety chart; which is the danger zone between 40°F and 140°F.
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 24, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
So you are saying that that chart applies meats that are cured and sausage with nitrite added? If so I don't see it in that chart. Processed foods does not mean cured. It looks like the standard food safety chart; which is the danger zone between 40°F and 140°F.
Im not saying anything in regards to the chart. It's in a sausage book. Im not here to argue with you as you know ALL like CW, who IMHO is fake and misleading.
Your results may vary
Have a great day.
I will try again seems how my last post went missing. You should be good to go with your sausage if the correct amount of cure was used. If you think along the lines of a dry cured sausage where it is cured for days and weeks at a time and are still consumable. This is directly related to the cure making the meat safe by eliminating the undesirables in the DANGER ZONE of the temperature chart for meat safety. Although it is a different method, it is designed to do the same thing. Enjoy.
Quote from: SmokinSignals on March 24, 2013, 02:26:09 PM
I will try again seems how my last post went missing. You should be good to go with your sausage if the correct amount of cure was used. If you think along the lines of a dry cured sausage where it is cured for days and weeks at a time and are still consumable. This is directly related to the cure making the meat safe by eliminating the undesirables in the DANGER ZONE of the temperature chart for meat safety. Although it is a different method, it is designed to do the same thing. Enjoy.
SS
Curing with cure 1 is nowhere near dry cure with cure 2. They are two different cureing processes.
CURES - Cures are used in sausage products for color and flavor development as well as retarding the development of bacteria in
the low temperature environment of smoked meats.
Salt and sugar both cure meat by osmosis. In addition to drawing the water from the food, they dehydrate and kill the bacteria that make food spoil. In general, though, use of the word "cure" refers to processing the meat with either sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate.
The primary and most important reason to use cures is to prevent BOTULISM POISONING (Food poisoning). It is very important that any kind of meat or sausage that will be cooked and smoked at low temperature be cured. To trigger botulism poisoning, the requirements are quite simple - lack of oxygen, the presence of moisture, and temperatures in range of 40-140° F. When smoking meats, the heat and smoke eliminates the oxygen. The meats have moisture and are traditionally smoked and cooked in the low ranges of 90 to 185° F. As you can see, these are ideal conditions for food poisoning if you don't use cures. There are two types of commercially used cures.
Prague Powder #1
Also called Insta-Cure and Modern Cure. Cures are used to prevent meats from spoiling when being cooked or smoked at low temperatures (under 200 degrees F). This cure is 1 part sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 16 parts salt (93.75%) and are combined and crystallized to assure even distribution. As the meat temperate rises during processing, the sodium nitrite changes to nitric oxide and starts to 'gas out' at about 130 degrees F. After the smoking /cooking process is complete only about 10-20% of the original nitrite remains. As the product is stored and later reheated for consumption, the decline of nitrite continues. 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 is required to cure 100 lbs of meat. A more typical measurement for home use is 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat. Mix with cold water, then mix into meat like you would mix seasonings into meat.
Prague Powder #2
Used to dry-cure products. Prague powder #2 is a mixture of 1 part sodium nitrite, .64 parts sodium nitrate and 16 parts salt. (1 oz. of sodium nitrite with .64 oz. of sodium nitrate to each lb. of salt.)
It is primarily used in dry-curing Use with products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which is sodium nitrate, acts like a time release, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. This allows you to dry cure products that take much longer to cure. A cure with sodium nitrite (cure #1) would dissipate too quickly.
Use 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or 1 level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat when mixing with meat.
When using a cure in a brine solution, follow a recipe.
Personally, I wouldn't risk serving sausages (particularly game meat) that have been exposed to a prolonged period (16 hours!) at warm temps (temps considered in the bacteria danger zone). But that's a personal choice to make. It MAY be perfectly safe—but....
Kevin
Quote from: Kevin A on March 24, 2013, 03:18:45 PM
Personally, I wouldn't risk serving sausages (particularly game meat) that have been exposed to a prolonged period (16 hours!) at warm temps (temps considered in the bacteria danger zone). But that's a personal choice to make. It MAY be perfectly safe—but....
Kevin
I completely agree Kevin. This is an overly cautious group that would much rather err on the side of caution. Then see someone risk of making themselves or others sick or worse.
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on March 24, 2013, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 24, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
So you are saying that that chart applies meats that are cured and sausage with nitrite added? If so I don't see it in that chart. Processed foods does not mean cured. It looks like the standard food safety chart; which is the danger zone between 40°F and 140°F.
Im not saying anything in regards to the chart. It's in a sausage book. Im not here to argue with you as you know ALL like CW, who IMHO is fake and misleading.
Your results may vary
Have a great day.
Ignored!
So what's the answer?? When I have done a large batch of SS (20# or more ) it seems like it took a min of 12-14 hours. That's why I started doing the water bath.
Ck with probe to see what IT is at bottom of chub.
Chubs will get to IT faster when checked at the bottom being closer to the heat source. Checking at the bottom with a probe can make any moisture escape the meat. Checking the IT from the top (or even the side) of the casing is a better way.
I dont know the cause of STL temp issues, could be lots of things, Outside temps, wind ect.
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 25, 2013, 01:17:37 AM
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on March 24, 2013, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 24, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
So you are saying that that chart applies meats that are cured and sausage with nitrite added? If so I don't see it in that chart. Processed foods does not mean cured. It looks like the standard food safety chart; which is the danger zone between 40°F and 140°F.
Im not saying anything in regards to the chart. It's in a sausage book. Im not here to argue with you as you know ALL like CW, who IMHO is fake and misleading.
Your results may vary
Have a great day.
Ignored!
HA
From he who knows ALL
With respect to ground meat products such as sausage, the USDA and the Food Safety Inspection Service have published schedules of the temperatures and times required to kill the microbes which can cause food poisoning. These schedules are available at http://www.fsis.usda.gov/oa/fr/95033f-a.htm and http://askfsis.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/4648/ . According to those schedules, 12 minutes at 140 degrees F, or 134 seconds at 147 degrees F, are sufficient to produce safe sausage. So print those schedules off and tape them to the front of your smoker! You'll save a lot of time next time you make sausage, and you'll feel better about eating the sausage. Although due to the temperature variations inside smokers, which can be significant, to be safe you should hold sausages at a temperature for longer than the minimum times specified on the schedules.
Because it is taking your smoker so long to get sausages up to temperature, I suggest that you try finishing your next batch of sausages in a hot water bath. There are several advantages to this technique:
(a) It is much faster - it may only take half an hour to get your sausages up to temperature in a water bath. Smoke the sausages for 2-3 hours, put them in the water, bring the water temperature up to 160 and hold it, wait for the internal temperature of the sausages to reach 155, hold the temperature there for five minutes to be safe, and then cool down the sausages in cold water for a couple of minutes.
(b) You can avoid melting fat out of your sausages by keeping the temperature of the water bath at or below 160 degrees.
(c) If you keep stirring the water and the sausages, there will be relatively small amounts of temperature difference from one part of your pot to another. Don't pack the sausages in too tightly, so you can stir the water.
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on March 25, 2013, 05:29:10 AM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 25, 2013, 01:17:37 AM
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on March 24, 2013, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on March 24, 2013, 01:51:10 PM
So you are saying that that chart applies meats that are cured and sausage with nitrite added? If so I don't see it in that chart. Processed foods does not mean cured. It looks like the standard food safety chart; which is the danger zone between 40°F and 140°F.
Im not saying anything in regards to the chart. It's in a sausage book. Im not here to argue with you as you know ALL like CW, who IMHO is fake and misleading.
Your results may vary
Have a great day.
Ignored!
HA
From he who knows ALL
Thank you!
6.3. Smoking
Verify that smokehouses operate as intended (heat, airflow, moisture). Appropriate calibrated thermometers should be used (for cooking temperature and meat internal temperature). Procedures for delivering the appropriate thermal treatment of cooked meats in conformance with the Food Code must be developed and used. Smoke itself, without proper cooking, is not an effective food preservative (Hilderbrand 1999). Caution should be used when smoking meats at temperatures in the danger zone 40-140°F for prolonged periods of time. In such a case meats must have been salted or cured first.
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nchfp/lit_rev/cure_smoke_pres.html
Last sentence says it all.