I picked up a 7 lb butt that I plan on smoking Wed night / Thursday. I plan on holding the cabinet temp around 210-225 deg. Any ballpark guesses on how long the total cook time will be? This will be my first Butt so I am not sure how long it'll take. Thank you!
If you let it warm up for at least an hour before smoking and watch tghe temp, 10 to 16 hours of cook time to get to temp.
Make sure to not overcook it with to much heat. it may take less time, but it could get dry. Try to stay at the lower end of the spectrum of heat.
Let us know how it goes Jimbo.
Jimbo-
Always allow for 1.5- 2 hours/lb. You didn't say if you have a thermometer, but temp is much more important than time- cooking times vary greatly. Get that bad boy to 190-200* and you should be good. Another good test of doneness is checking the bone, if it is still present. Wiggle it a little- if it moves easily, or twists out, you are ready to pull and pull! Good luck and follow the most important rules- experiment and have fun!
Thanks for the replies guys. I have a Maverick 73 thermometer and from searching this the forums it sounds like it I'll take it out of the smoker at around 195 deg internal and FTC for at least 2 hrs.
Quote from: Jimbo on May 22, 2006, 07:25:42 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I have a Maverick 73 thermometer and from searching this the forums it sounds like it I'll take it out of the smoker at around 195 deg internal and FTC for at least 2 hrs.
Sounds like a good plan ;D.
I agree - sounds like a good plan Jimbo. Actually, I think there are probably a number of different techniques and game plans that will produce good to excellent Q with the Bradley. After reading the forum for a while, I realize that my approach is somewhat heretical. Now I'm perfectly willing to try the smoke/cook to 195 in the smoker and then FTC for a couple of hours, and will try it soon. But I worked out a somewhat different method prior to buying the Bradley 2 wks ago and it seems to have worked for me for the past two weekends on 4 butts and 4 racks of ribs in the BS. I will try to give you the differences and reasons for what I do, especially when they differ from the CW of this forum. And I'd appreciate comments from anyone who cares to contribute - all of this is in the spirit of experimentation - I don't pretend to have the best system, just a damn delicious one that works for me.
1) As others have suggested, apply a rub (I'd be glad to share my recipe) to the pork and let it sit overnight in a plastic bag. I've used whole butts with good success, but now that I have access to boneless shoulders, find some advantages with them. The boned meat separates into a thick piece and a thinner, more irregular piece. The thicker one seems better for sliced Q or coarsely chopped, and the other 1/2 to 1/3 seems fine for chopping or pulling. My theory is that by spreading a boned shoulder out you have more surface area for both a flavorful rub and smoke absorption.
2) The next day, place the meat on racks and set into the Bradley. So far, I've not preheated (the first heretical statement, since most hereabouts seem to suggest preheating the Bradley). The reason for this is that rather than sit around for 1-2 hours while the smoker preheats, I figure I might as well have the meat in there absorbing smoke. I don't know the temp for which smoke absorption is optimal, but it seems to work at cold temps as well as (and perhaps better than) at hot temps. I'll crank the temp control all the way to the right, and the air temp will gradually come up to the 180-225 range. And I'll also fill the water bowl with boiling water instead of cold tap water - that seems to help things along.
3) I agree with folks that say smoking for 3-4 hours is usally enough. (so far I've used hickory for my pork). By that time I am moving the temp control down to 5/8-3/4 throttle, because once the meat starts to heat up, I don't want the air temp to be significantly above 212 degrees, so as not to cause the outer muscle fibers to boil their liquid, dry out, and shrivel up.
4) After 3-4 hours of smoking, you have options.
a) you can continue to cook until the internal temp gets up to, say 190 or so, and FTC it as others have suggested . . . OR (my second heretical statement)
b) I take the pork out of the Bradley and put it in a small covered roasting pan (I use an inexpensive thin blue enameled steel one), splash it with my Carolina-style sauce, and stick it in my kitchen oven overnight, at say ~150-170 degrees. By the next morning, the house will smell great. Also, the shoulder will have stabilized at that temp. By holding it at that temp for a number of hours, you can promote the breakdown of tough collagen fibers into gelatin that infuses the meat and makes it succulent. (I have experimented with higher temps and feel that the longer you need to hold it before cutting, the lower you can keep the temp). [So, an alternative, to enable you to do all the cooking in one day, would be to marinate overnight in a rub, smoke the next morning for 4 hrs, then hold in the oven at 175-190 for say 6 hours and then cut and serve. If you use the thinner, boned shoulder, this should be long enough.] But I think it is a good idea to keep the atmosphere inside the covered pan very moist with sauce. Others might wrap in foil at this point and continue cooking in the smoker.
5) Finally, prior to cutting/pulling/chopping, I'll pour off all of that dark, syrupy stuff in the bottom of the pan into a measuring cup and put it in the fridge or freezer. In a short while, the fat will rise to the top in a waxy sludge and you can remove it (discard unless you relish cooking with spicy pork fat - maybe I'll send several pounds of it to Emeril). What you have left is a glorious, heavenly, de-fatted goop, that is rich, slightly spicy, and gelatinizes when refrigerated. I will then warm this glorious goop, and pour it back over the chopped or pulled pork, along with a little more of my vinegar-based sauce. I believe this is at least one trick that has made my chopped BBQ so well-received so far.
Good luck, and remember you probably can't go wrong unless you overcook the shoulders and dry them out at too high a temp. Low and slow is the way to go, as I recall someone saying on this forum.
Art
Asa;
Looks like an interesting technique. That's the thing about smoked food and barbecue; there are many different techniques on how to get the job done, just as there are as many differences on ones taste and preference of meat texture.
I myself prefer to have bone-in shoulder. The bone gives the meat a better flavor. I always cook my butts to 170-175F, and it can be pulled at that temperature. Connective tissue starts to break down at 165F, therefore you don't have to bring you butts or brisket up to 185-200F. As you mentioned the trick is to sustain the break down at a lower temperature for a longer period of time, but I prefer to cook completely in the BS. I am pretty lazy and I don't want an extra pan to clean.
How long does it take the BS to get up to your set smoking temperature? My preference is to get up to your smoking temperature as soon as possible.
I just did my first on on Saturday. It was a 5.5 lb. boneless shoulder. I preheated to about 225, smoked for three hrs and cooked to an internal temp of about 185. I kept the BS at about 210 during cooking and smoking. It took 12 hrs in the BS plus a 1.5 hr. FTC and about an hour to preheat. Plan to wake up early if you want to eat that night. It is definitely worth the wait, though.
Malc
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on May 23, 2006, 05:01:45 AM
I myself prefer to have bone-in shoulder. The bone gives the meat a better flavor. I always cook my butts to 170-175F, and it can be pulled at that temperature. Connective tissue starts to break down at 165F, therefore you don't have to bring you butts or brisket up to 185-200F. As you mentioned the trick is to sustain the break down at a lower temperature for a longer period of time, but I prefer to cook completely in the BS. I am pretty lazy and I don't want an extra pan to clean.
I've always heard that "The bone gives the meat a better flavor" but I've never had the patience to test it (double-blind controlled would be best). But I'll accept it. On the other hand, the attraction of the thinner pieces and more surface area for smoke and rub attracted me to the alternative.
QuoteHow long does it take the BS to get up to your set smoking temperature? My preference is to get up to your smoking temperature as soon as possible.
I'm not sure - really sorry that I didn't keep closer tabs on what was happening. Because I was only interested in the Bradley for smoking and not long-term cooking, I didn't really pay attention. But my impression is (after two decent-size loads in the BS so far) that the air temp got up to above 150 within an hour. (Remember, I also started with boiling water in the pan - that's an extra pound or so of liquid that doesn't have to be heated, and, in fact, gives off some heat). I won't be doing anything for another week or two, but will try to remember to track it better and let you know (it will also depend on how much I have in there).
So what do you think? Does "cooking" meat with a surface temp of >160 or so absorb more smoke or does cooler meat, before it starts cooking, or is there any difference?
Regards . . . .
The colder the surface of the meat or other product that you are smoking, the more smoke penetration will be obtained. There is a point at which smoke will not penetrate the surface, and adhesion to the surface is lessen.
You can try searching the forum, there are several discussions on smoke penetration and at what point smoke will no longer penetrate. The general consensus is 140F.
Ahah! So there is some method to my madness, even though I didn't really know what I was doing. (or perhaps A and B and not related)? Anyway, that's very interesting. The surface of the meat won't get above 140 for a while, even after the air temp is well above that, because the inside of the meat being cool will keep the surface relatively cool also. So it seems to me that preheating the smoker should cut down on the total smoking time available to you. Therefore, if you want maximum smoking efficiency, then start smoking cold, without preheating - no?.
So it goes . .
Asa,
Remember, you want to take decades and measured quantities of adult beverages before you solve all of these challenges. If you solve all of this fast, it will be back to "Honey-Do"s on the weekends rather than experimentation with the BS.
Arcs_n_Sparks
Quote from: asa on May 23, 2006, 07:47:49 PM
Ahah! So there is some method to my madness, even though I didn't really know what I was doing. (or perhaps A and B and not related)? Anyway, that's very interesting. The surface of the meat won't get above 140 for a while, even after the air temp is well above that, because the inside of the meat being cool will keep the surface relatively cool also. So it seems to me that preheating the smoker should cut down on the total smoking time available to you. Therefore, if you want maximum smoking efficiency, then start smoking cold, without preheating - no?.
So it goes . .
I wish it was so black and white, but there are other factors that come into play. Such as the surface of the meat. If it is wet (moist), that will reduce smoke penetration and adhesion. So you can speculate that starting with a preheated cabinet will dry off the surface of the meat, therefore being more smoke efficient, then if you started with a cold cabinet.
Evaporation of moisture from the meat will also keep the surface of the meat and the surrounding air temperature cooler, than the rest of the cabinet temperature. That is why I try to keep my cabinet temperature probe at least a couple of inches away from the meat.
I've gotta agree with arcs about the research time frame. As near as I can figure I'll be way into 2020 before I start getting answers to my smoking questions. To bad Ann, No Honey Do's today, gotta go, cold ones to drink, I mean er I need to practice with the smoker. Yeh that's it, practice. Ha! :D ;D
Quote
(the first heretical statement...
(my second heretical statement)
Now that's funny around these parts...we have/are heretics from time to time on this board.
My .02347 cents worth.
4 hrs of smoke at 225 till an internal of 185 and FTC the puppy for two hours....way too easy AND for a brief moment of time you WILL BE the king of butts, at least a different butt.
Good Luck Jumbo...
Thank you for all the replies! The butt is in the fridge with a coating of mustard & rub on it now. I plan on preheating the BS and throwing the butt in there around 12-1 am.
Here's the new twist....Rain is in the forecast for tomorrow and I don't have a covered area for the BS. IF it starts to rain I'll have to finish the butt in my oven. My oven goes down to 175 degs so I'll be set on temp, but how should I finish this thing in the oven if need be? Wrap it in foil and throw it in there or just put it in on an elevated rate in baking pan uncovered or what??
Thanks again.
Jimbo,
It probably depends on how much cooking you get done in the Bradley before you put it in the oven. I would say foil if the IT is within 10F, rack & drip pan if it's not.
My smoking area is partially covered (outlet) but I don't like keeping the smoker under the eave. Bradley won't tell you you can, and I won't tell you you can, but I've never let a little rain or snow stop my smoking. 6 years later & it's used, but certainly not trashy. I just close the top vent to about 1/4 & smile.
Kirk
Thanks Arcs for your sage advice - I'll try to follow your fine example. And thanks to the others for your replies. I'll certainly give the ftc a try.
Asa;
You seem to have a curiosity of what is happening to the food during preparation and cooking, and won't just settle for just following a formula (recipe) and sitting back to drink a beer. If you want to learn more about "kitchen" science there are several books written by food chemist Harold McGee. They are not books on smoking, but all the questions you have asked are contained in his books; although you may have to dig. You may not learn every thing there is to know about food science, but you will know more then what you had previously. The quest is not knowing all, but to continue to learn.
Two that I recommend.
Excellent reference book. You just have to dig for the information.
On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen
I haven't purchased yet, but keep planning to.
McGee on Food and Cooking : An Encyclopedia of Kitchen Science, History and Culture.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dblended%26field-keywords%3Dharold%20mcghee%26results-process%3Ddefault%26dispatch%3Dsearch/ref%3Dpd%5Fsl%5Faw%5Ftops-1%5Fblended%5F14095870%5F2/002-3523923-8666450
Thanks for the Harold McGee tips Hab. I do have the most recent "On Food and Cooking: Science and Lore etc" (asked for it last Christmas) but had never heard of the other one until now - didn't know it existed. I'll look into it, thanks.
Another of his you might really enjoy if you haven't seen it is "The Curious Cook" where he takes on some of the "old-wives-tales" found in cookbooks. Like "sear the meat to keep the juices in." (Answer: searing doesn't do anything to keep juices in, but it is important to develop flavor through caramelization and the Maillard reaction). And one of my favorite examples, which went something like "to make mayonnaise, emulsify one cup of oil with one egg yolk." Harold wondered (I love the way his mind works), how much oil will one egg yolk emulsify? Turns out the answer is something like 6 gallons.
I think I got turned on to McGee through my favorite cooking mag "Cooks Illustrated," where they take a more or less scientific approach to experimenting with recipes and sometimes quote McGee. Christopher Kimball seems to be of the same mind-set. I think that's why I like him and his approach to cooking. Anyway, you got me pegged right, sir. Thanks for the references. I second your recommendations to others on this list.
All the information in "The Curious Cook" you will find in "On Food and Cooking", so I found no need to purchase that. Although the information in "The Curious Cook" is easier to find.
Keep exploring :)
"On Food and Cooking" seems to me to be more of a reference book, while "The Curious Cook" seems to be a more interesting read (although more narrowly focused), with more detail about his process of investigating a few areas of food science. I haven't checked carefully, but I don't doubt that his conclusions from "Curious" are included in the larger work.
Regards . . .
Well, the rain held off so I started the butt at midnight and took it out today at 5:15pm when the internal temp reached 190 deg and then FTC'd for 2 hrs. It was a fine meal. Everyone loved it. Thanks for the help guys.
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on May 23, 2006, 05:01:45 AM
How long does it take the BS to get up to your set smoking temperature? My preference is to get up to your smoking temperature as soon as possible.
This was in reference to my statement about starting out without preheating.
Well, HS, I started out this am with 20-25# of cold meat from the fridge. It sat at room temp for ~2 hrs before turning on the BS. Starting without preheating, but with boiling water in the bowl, my BS recorded the following temps (temp ranges are due to the fact that I have two probes measuring air temp):
10 min - 100 degrees F
30-40 min - 150
1 hr - 165-170
2 hr - 165-185
2.5-3 hr - pretty steady at 185-200
All of this time has been with the smoker heater on high.
I'll probably have to turn it down a little over the last hour, but I think your main question was about how fast it would heat to cooking temp from a cold start.
Regards,
Art
Art,
Thanks for providing this information. The cabinet does get up to cooking temperature faster then I would have guessed.
The 4 hr data are as follows:
bottom rack = 225
door = 205
new Polder dual-temp in upper rack area = 195 (as you pointed out, this probe seems problematic - I'll probably return it if I can). It was positioned slightly above the venison roast that was showing an internal temp of 145.
On the other hand, my Taylor instant-read, inserted through the vent read slightly over 200.
These 4 hr temps were also with the heater on high. Temps would have been higher I think if I hadn't disregarded everyone's admonitions about not opening the door for 4 hours. I opened the door several times, including twice to . . .ummm . . .(. . .cough . .) throw in and retrieve a couple of hot dogs for lunch. Temps seemed to regain prior levels reasonably quickly, however.
Art
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on June 03, 2006, 03:24:01 PM
Art,
Thanks for providing this information. The cabinet does get up to cooking temperature faster then I would have guessed.
My guess is that the heat-capacity of that bowl of water is significant, so starting out with that at 200-212 makes the whole thing heat up a lot faster than if the water started at 65 degrees (which I never tried). [I've also added the 4 hr data in another post]