So we remodeled at work and there is an extra refridgerator that works perfect, what are the thoughts on making it into a big cold smoker ?
I would cut a hole in the side and either plum my current smoker into it or purchase a smoke generator
Plug in the fridge and walla cold smoker !!
Thoughts ???
LTS
Is it a commercial fridge, with metal inside walls, or a residential unit, with a plastic liner? Even though you are planning to use it as a cold smoker, I think most folks who are home building smokers remove any plastic from the inside of the smoker to minimize the risk that heating the plastic during smoking will release substances that you don't want to eat.
If you've got a commercial unit, I'm envious. You've got a great project ahead of you.
By the way, there are some forum members who have built several refrigerator based smokers. They should be a good resource for you.
There should be almost zero heat if the fridge is running
Its a residential fridge
I think you're confused on the term "cold smoker". :o
Quote from: KyNola on September 25, 2013, 06:26:28 PM
I think you're confused on the term "cold smoker". :o
KyNola: that's really an insufficient answer. If you believe that he is "confused on the term cold smoker", shouldn't you explain what you believe what is referred to by the term, how he is "confused" and what he should do with his situation? I think that your comment doesn't help, or add to the conversation. Shouldn't it?
Quote from: pondee on September 26, 2013, 05:21:13 AM
Quote from: KyNola on September 25, 2013, 06:26:28 PM
I think you're confused on the term "cold smoker". :o
-KyNola: that's really an insufficient answer. If you believe that he is "confused on the term cold smoker", shouldn't you explain what you believe what is referred to by the term, how he is "confused" and what he should do with his situation? I think that your comment doesn't help, or add to the conversation. Shouldn't it?
He is referring to running the refrigerator as a refrigerator while smoking in it. A refrigerator generally runs between 34-38 degrees. The colder air inside the running refrigerator will impede the "warmer" smoke from rising as cold air is heavier than warm air. In his initial description there is no mention of any venting of the smoke out of the refrigerator. There should also be concern about the insulation that is within the interior and exterior walls and if the interior walls are plastic.
Also, in my limited knowledge, cold smoking is done with a smoke source at ambient temp. I haven't run into a situation where the smoker is refrigerated. Probably for the reasons noted above.Though as I said, I have limited knowledge in this area.
Yes I would have to cut a vent hole in the top somewhere , do you think I would need a fan to help "get the smoke out"
And I am a little confused on all the talk about plastic on the inside of the fridge, Its really no different than the fridge in your house now, it will not see any heat only smoke, it will be running at the same temp as the fridge in your house ?
LTS
Quote from: love the smoke on September 26, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Yes I would have to cut a vent hole in the top somewhere , do you think I would need a fan to help "get the smoke out"
And I am a little confused on all the talk about plastic on the inside of the fridge, Its really no different than the fridge in your house now, it will not see any heat only smoke, it will be running at the same temp as the fridge in your house ?
LTS
I think what KyNola is trying to tell you is you wont get any smoke on your food if you run the fridge while smoking, most people use old fridges as a box with racks and insulation to make their cold smokers not running the fridge while smoking. You cold smoke at about room temperature to get the smoke into the product being smoked. My Great Grandfather made one with the smoke box ten feet down hill from his converted fridge with the smoke traveling up a ceramic pipe into the bottom of the fridge and vented out the top. As in a wood burning stove smoke wont travel up through a completely cold pipe it needs some ambient temp and air draw. Hope this helps.
Love the Smoke:
The sense I'm getting here, although no one seems to want to say it, is that "cold smoking" isn't really cold like a refrigerator which is running (below 40 degrees). I remember reading here, somewhere, that smoke needs to be higher (about 80 or so), to properly flavor the food being smoked. I could be confusing the smoking temperature with the "danger zone" of 40 to 140 degrees, but I think that they are similar, at least on the low end. In any event, you can not properly smoke at temperatures below 40, as in a running refrigerator. Everyone is worried that the refrigerator, which is designed to run below 40* may cause problems to your food once it reaches usual, higher, smoking temperatures. They may have a point. It was stated by another poster: "I think you're confused on the term "cold smoker"". i was hoping that that poster would elaborate further as to what "cold smoking" was and entailed. He did not do so. So you now have my best guess as to why everyone is so worried about your refrigerator cold smoker. Cold smoking is done above 40, which is above where your frige will run. Since the frige is designed to run below 40* and since smoking (cold or otherwise) is done at a higher temp, the plastic and insulation may emit fumes that would not be beneficial to your food. Erring on the side of caution, I agree. OK forum, have it at.
I am going to attempt this one last time. Cold smoking is typically done at 50-90 degrees Fahrenheit. The colder air in a normally running refrigerator at 34-38 degrees Fahrenheit may impede the warmer smoke air rising through the smoker as cold air is heavier then warm air, as in a hot air balloon. That is why they have those big burners at the bottom of the balloon, so that the air is heated hot enough to rise through the heavier cold atmosphere. Smoke is only mildly heated so the frig air temp may impede the smoke from rising. You will need a vent so that the smoke can escape the box. Whether a fan is required will depend on how much draft you have made arrangements for in the frig. The plastic lining in the interior of the frig may or may not be a concern to you. For me it would be a concern but you should do whatever you feel comfortable doing. Same goes for the insulation between the interior walls and the exterior walls.
This is my explanation as best I can give it. Much more knowledgeable and learned members will come along and give you much better advice. Let me highly urge you to take their advice.
You can make a cold smoker out of dang near anything.
Cardboard box, flower pot, tin foil, whatever...
If the refrigerator works perfect, then, you could use that for a refrigerator.
It's a good place to store cold-smoked cheese.
Or beer.
Lets see
You want to use a working fridge. pipe in smoke. Cold air sinks and hot air rises. The coldness in the fridge will keep the smoke from rising in the fridge and make a messy gunk in it.
Here is the diff between cold and hot smoking. Source Wedliny
Cold smoking at 52-71° F (12-22° C), from 1-14 days, applying thin smoke with occasional breaks in between, is one of the oldest preservation methods. We cannot produce cold smoke if the outside temperature is 90° F (32° C), unless we can cool it down, which is what some industrial smokers do. Cold smoking is a drying process whose purpose is to remove moisture thus preserving a product.
Hot Smoking
Hot smoking is the most common method of smoking. Continuous smoking at 105-140° F (41-60° C), 0.5-2 hours, 5-12% weight loss, heavy smoke. This is not recommended for large pieces of meat that are expected to be stored for a long time. Although it is the fastest method, there is not enough time for adequate smoke penetration. This results in higher moisture content, reducing the product's shelf life. This type of smoking can be divided into three separate phases:
Drying out the surface of the meat for 10-40 min at 112-130° F (45-55° C), some very light smoke is acceptable, although not necessary. Besides drying out the surface of the meat, the temperature speeds up nitrite curing. Keep in mind that the draft controls must be fully opened to eliminate any moisture residing inside of the smoker. Applying smoke at temperatures higher than 130-140° F (54-60° C) will prematurely dry out the casings on the surface of the meat and will create a barrier to smoke penetration.
This is the proper smoking stage at 112-140° F (45-60° C) for 30-90 min, using medium to heavy smoke. The color becomes a light yellow to dark brown with a shade of red. In this state, the natural casings become strong and fit snugly on the sausages.
Baking the sausage at 140-176° F (60-80° C) for about 10-20 min. Temperatures as high as 194° F (90° C) are permitted for a short period of time. Proteins are denatured in the outside layers of the product, but the inside remains raw with temperatures reaching only 104° F (40° C). Natural casings fit very snugly, become shiny, and develop a few wrinkles. This is a welcomed scenario; lots of smoked products are subsequently poached. Acting like a barrier, the drier and stronger casings prevent the loss of juices. This type of cooking (poaching) is more economical to baking (less weight loss).
Forum post count. Nuff said
Senior member KyNola 9,604
Pondee 37
Who's advice would you take?
Why make this personal? I just asked a question, asking a prior poster to clarify his post. So much for this forum being friendly and about getting clear answers to ones questions, sharing info in a clear friendly way. I guess you need to be "in the club" for a while to be treated as a friend, or at least as someone seeking the best way of doing things. Hence the score card. Just because someone says a lot of things, don't make him miore right. Ciao guys. Thought this was going to be fun. If you do: Good For You.
Quote from: pondee on October 01, 2013, 09:33:13 AM
Why make this personal? I just asked a question, asking a prior poster to clarify his post. So much for this forum being friendly and about getting clear answers to ones questions, sharing info in a clear friendly way. I guess you need to be "in the club" for a while to be treated as a friend, or at least as someone seeking the best way of doing things. Hence the score card. Just because someone says a lot of things, don't make him miore right. Ciao guys. Thought this was going to be fun. If you do: Good For You.
I'm not sure if you had read my post when you made your second post or not, however it appears to me sitting here on the sidelines that your first post was a bit confrontational, as I think many of the people on this forum would take KyNola's first post and do a search on Cold Smoking to find out where they are confused before asking for more information. Providing the same answer over and over again to oft asked, under searched questions could become a full time job for the moderator's who receive no pay for their work on the forum trying to help people.
As for your second post it appeared to me that you completely ignored my response and those of GusRobin and KyNola's response to your quote to attempt to create a conflict where none existed before.
I have not been a member of this forum for very long but I have found it to be the friendliest forum I have run across from the beginning, I did not have to be in the club or anything other than be a sincere member of the forum to have even my stupidest problems explained and solved for me. If you can understand what I'm trying to get across and want to have a fun and productive experience here, then by all means hang out, however if this ain't your cup of tea, I wish you the best in whatever direction life takes you and your smoking.
Quote from: KyNola on September 26, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
I am going to attempt this one last time. Cold smoking is typically done at 50-90 degrees Fahrenheit. The colder air in a normally running refrigerator at 34-38 degrees Fahrenheit may impede the warmer smoke air rising through the smoker as cold air is heavier then warm air, as in a hot air balloon. That is why they have those big burners at the bottom of the balloon, so that the air is heated hot enough to rise through the heavier cold atmosphere. Smoke is only mildly heated so the frig air temp may impede the smoke from rising. You will need a vent so that the smoke can escape the box. Whether a fan is required will depend on how much draft you have made arrangements for in the frig. The plastic lining in the interior of the frig may or may not be a concern to you. For me it would be a concern but you should do whatever you feel comfortable doing. Same goes for the insulation between the interior walls and the exterior walls.
This is my explanation as best I can give it. Much more knowledgeable and learned members will come along and give you much better advice. Let me highly urge you to take their advice.
Unfortunately, this was the first attempt KyNola made at completely answering the question raised by him that the OP was confused by "cold smoking". Perhaps true but useless. KyNola's answer did not contribute to the conversation, did not offer a site or link to obtain the necessary information, did not offer a reason why he, KyNola thought the OP was "confused" but just said; I'm sorry you are wrong. People on this thread were talking about the refrigerators insulation and its possible effects and consequences with smoking together with the temperature issue with a working fridge which was answered after several posts back and forth. Then I get don't listen to me, I've only posted a few times. listen to those who have posted many although your question still go wanting for a answer. Finally, I believe that I got it mostly right in my post of September 26, 2013, 12:15:52 pm. That is were I invited comments. Why NePaSmoKer is busting my chops escapes me.
Again, I thought that this was a friendly site where questions would be answered completely to further understanding and enjoyment of the craft. I'm trying to understand. KyNola's first answer was incomplete and amounted to nothing than a statement of you're wrong. I tried to cobble together all posts and piece together an understanding of what was being said. For my efforts I get slapped down and told that I shouldn't be heard. If you believe that this is friendly and helpful, Good For You.
pondee;
I did read your previous post as an assessment of the information that was posted by others. You did not ignore, but summed up several member's comments. Your input is just as valuable as anyone else of this forum, and I hope that this one thread does not discourage you from using the forum to obtain advice, information, and to contribute. A couple of negative comments is not representative of the entire forum.
Geezus
Nobody is busting chops.
I just posted whats on another site about cold smoking.
But if you want you can get all riled up about my post.
Have a great day in the north east......................
I unwittingly, unknowingly and unintentionally became the epicenter of this firestorm so it seems it is only right that it is my responsibility to put this fire out. This thread has spun off in a direction I would never have imagined. Everyone needs to stand down. Pondee, if my initial reply to the OP was not sufficient to you I apologize. In my defense, the OP in his first post never asked for direction, he simply said "thoughts?". My thought was simply "I think you are confused about cold smoking", nothing more nothing less. If you considered it flippant it was not my intention. When the OP asked for direction it was provided to him, both by you, me and other members of the Forum, just the way it is supposed to happen here. Exactly the same way it happened when you first got your BDS 4 rack and weren't sure how to advance the wood pucks and why you were receiving "E" messages. Go back and take a look at who responded to your requests for assistance.
Let's talk about where this goes from here. Pondee, I hope you stay around to get to know us a little more. I sincerely do. Sometimes we have disagreements and "dust ups" from time to time, just like every family in America. Doesn't mean we don't still like each other. Granted, some of my friends here took offense when they perceived you took a swing at me. That's why I am responding publicly to you rather than doing it in a Private Message.
Finally, I have gotten the idea that because I am a Moderator on the Forum that somehow you think I have more of an obligation to answer each and every question that comes across the Forum. That is not my job. I did not lobby to become a Moderator. Bradley asked me to be a Moderator. I will be more than happy to relinquish that position. Say the word and I will contact Brian tomorrow. I will even suggest to Brian some folks who I think are more qualified to be a Moderator than me. My apology to you stands. Whether you stay or leave is up to you.
I am going to leave this thread open for a few days and then I am going to lock it or delete it entirely as it has gotten completely out of hand.
Larry
To sum it up for Love the smoke:
a) "Cold Smoking" doesn't refer to the ambient temp, but rather to the fact that the intent is to smoke the item, not cook it. It is done at ambient temps (if your ambient temp is around 70* -90*).
b) There is a concern about the insulation and plastic in refrigerators if you are going to make any type of smoker out of them. Should be ok if you are just making a curing cabinet. Best to remove if you are not sure. Or you can contact the manufacturer if possible.
c) A cold smoke box for the Bradley can be made out of anything. If you run a search, you will see them made out of cardboard, plywood, mailboxes, microwaves, etc. But these cold boxes are used to burn the pucks, then the smoke travels thru a vent of some type into the cabinet.
Hope all that helps.
Larry --don't give up the position. Pondee - stick around, you'll be glad you did.
I had no intentions of this turning into a pissing match, i asked a simple question and thought I was going to get a simple answer as I have in the past, but I see that is not happening. Lets just forget the whole thing, I called the salvage people to come and get it, this thing has caused enough grief already, i will use a cardboard box instead. I will think twice about asking a simple question in the future
LTS
Quote from: love the smoke on October 01, 2013, 06:40:32 PM
I had no intentions of this turning into a pissing match, i asked a simple question and thought I was going to get a simple answer as I have in the past, but I see that is not happening. Lets just forget the whole thing, I called the salvage people to come and get it, this thing has caused enough grief already, i will use a cardboard box instead. I will think twice about asking a simple question in the future
LTS
If it works use it as a fridge, by the time you get done smoking a bunch of cheese and stuff you will need all the fridge space you can get. I don't think your question was the cause of this dust up, I think it was some simple misunderstanding amongst several of us so please don't hesitate to ask questions in the future.
If'n I wuz gonna stitch my cattle brand on my saddle, I'd use Kentucky Blue thread.
But, then again, if Grandma had wheels, she'd have been a bicycle.
Seem like it never rains when you need it.
How bout dem Cowboys?
Awrighten.
Quote from: KyNola on October 01, 2013, 05:56:16 PM
... In my defense, the OP in his first post never asked for direction, he simply said "thoughts?". My thought was simply "I think you are confused about cold smoking", nothing more nothing less. If you considered it flippant it was not my intention...
When one is speaking face to face, then it is easy to read the body language of the other person in the conversation to "read" the tone of the communication. When online, it is entirely different; because you cannot see the person making the statement, it is often relatively easy to misinterpret the intent, which in retrospect clearly occurred in this instance. Just yesterday on another forum I was in the hot seat because I had completely unintentionally made a tongue-in-cheek comment, and, I have also been in Pondee's position where I interpreted an online comment not in the way it was intended - unfortunately misunderstandings often occur on the internet.
Yeah, things have gotten out of control. As for my part, I do apologize. Love the Smoke seemed so excited about his "find" and use of the Fridge to cold smoke I thought he deserved a complete answer lest he go off in an unsafe ill-advised way. One thing led to another and, well , we have all read the result. Sorry for my part in this P1$$1ng match It is time it stopped. I believe that the answer, situation, has been completely supplied/discussed. Please accept my apology. The advise I've received here has been so good I was taken aback by what I saw as a half fast response by a high ranking member to someone so excited about his new toy/ way. I was mistaken.
Thanks to all the cooler heads who have stepped up to calm the waters. Thanks for your understanding and forgiveness.