Hey folks. I didn't want to pollute the bread-making thread, but some folks on there refer to cloches. I googled this and was all over the map. Maybe it's because I live in Canada where everything online tends to cost 3X what is normal but prices were all over the map. These simple clay pots seem to range from 40 - 100 bucks. For clay?
All I'm looking for is something stoneware to make long, crusty loaves of bread. Why are these things so pricy?
What should I be looking for?
This is the one I have, I don't know if you have Williams-Sonoma in Canada or not but you should be able to find on ebay for around this price. http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/781047/?catalogId=14&sku=781047&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=35-173163697-2&cm_ven=Shopping&cm_cat=PriceGrabber&cm_pla=default&cm_ite=default
I have the same one as Saber. I got it for myself for Christmas. I ordered it through Amazon it was somewhere around $45 with shipping. Seemed pretty dear for what it consists of but it sure turns out some awesome bread. I'd order it again if I were to break this one.
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Yikes! Glad I bought mine when I did. After reading the original post I went on to Amazon and the same pan I ordered in Dec for under $50 with shipping is now 59.95 plus shipping. I will say I checked a lot of dept stores, kitchen stores and restaurant supply outfits before I ordered mine looking to save a few shekels and came up empty. Couldn't find what I was looking for at any price. I guess I'll be paying very close attention when I handle it from now on.
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Why not just use a new clay flower pot? I expect the answer, and the reason why a clay cloche is so expensive, is that a clay flower pot is likely to have pockets of air in the clay which make the pot susceptible to breaking when heated. Removing air from the clay to prevent air pockets adds time and cost to the manufacturing process, which is reflected in the price of clay baking products.
The cloche is also covered with a fairly tight fitting lid of the same material, and the entire cloche (pan with cover in place) is preheated at 450F for 1/2 hr before the bread dough is put in it. You remove the heated cloche, put the dough in it, cover and get back into the oven as quickly as you can. The bread bakes covered for the first 1/2 hour then the cover is removed and the bread bakes for another 8-15 minutes depending on how "crusty" you want it. I think the fact that the dough is enclosed for the initial baking is the secret behind the recipe. I don't think it could be replicated in an earthenware flower pot, but I haven't tried it so I don't know for sure. I would also check into the manufacturing process before I prepared food in any vessel not specifically made for food prep, to make sure no unsafe chemicals, etc are used.
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Quote from: tailfeathers on February 23, 2014, 09:05:01 AM
The cloche is also covered with a fairly tight fitting lid of the same material, and the entire cloche (pan with cover in place) is preheated at 450F for 1/2 hr before the bread dough is put in it. You remove the heated cloche, put the dough in it, cover and get back into the oven as quickly as you can. The bread bakes covered for the first 1/2 hour then the cover is removed and the bread bakes for another 8-15 minutes depending on how "crusty" you want it. I think the fact that the dough is enclosed for the initial baking is the secret behind the recipe. I don't think it could be replicated in an earthenware flower pot, but I haven't tried it so I don't know for sure. I would also check into the manufacturing process before I prepared food in any vessel not specifically made for food prep, to make sure no unsafe chemicals, etc are used.
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Good answer, another trick I picked up from someone here was to put the lid beside the cloche in the oven if I am going to bake a second loaf. Then I can take the first loaf out and drop the dough for the second loaf without having to go through the 30 minute pre-heat again, it's been working great.
Thanks for your help guys. Looks like the cheapest price for me online is to order directly from Williams-Sonoma, even with shipping and duty. I'll have a look around some local stores first before ordering.
It's kind of a spendy pan, but there isn't a week that goes by without me using it. I love that the basic recipe is so simple yet so versatile. Just changing a few ingredients for a world of different flavors. It appears to me that the possibilities are virtually limitless.
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Saber-
Are you doing any preheat at all on the bottom half when you do back to back loaves? Or are you quickly removing the baked loaf to a rack, next dough loaded, covered with the lid that remained in the oven while the first loaf finished and straight back in? If this is the method, does the second loaf have the texture as the first ?
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Quote from: tailfeathers on February 23, 2014, 09:56:28 AM
Saber-
Are you doing any preheat at all on the bottom half when you do back to back loaves? Or are you quickly removing the baked loaf to a rack, next dough loaded, covered with the lid that remained in the oven while the first loaf finished and straight back in? If this is the method, does the second loaf have the texture as the first ?
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The simple answer is yes and yes. I pull the first loaf to a rack and drop the second loaf immediately. I prep the second batch of dough as soon as the first one goes in so it has about the same rise time as the first. And yes the texture is identical you won't be able to tell them apart after their both out. Stay tuned for another thread I'm about to post on a new use for the crusty bread dough that I just tried, you will love it.
Woodlawnsmoker
Check out this link for Canadian Stores.
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/stores/store-list.html#canada
Paul
Picked up one from Amazon. About the same price as WS but we have prime free shipping. Just tried it out for the first time the other day. Not picture perfect the first go around but sure made a tasty sammie! :)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/olepop/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/2776145F-5E98-439B-AC1D-FC4B486AA741_zpsoj2kozgd.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/olepop/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/D57C5D5C-2145-48D1-AE96-D55A2AD53C3F_zpso0xvdo7r.jpg)
Good looking bread iceman.
Looks good iceman, how did the parchment paper work for you? I've found after the first couple of bakes with some dusted flour that it gets seasoned and the bread just pops out with no flour dusting.
Quote from: Saber 4 on February 24, 2014, 05:28:32 PM
Looks good iceman, how did the parchment paper work for you? I've found after the first couple of bakes with some dusted flour that it gets seasoned and the bread just pops out with no flour dusting.
same with my cloche. I wiped it down with a paper towel dampened with canola oil the first couple times I preheated it, but since seasoning it I haven't used anything more than the flour I put on the dough to form the loaf after rising.
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That stone cloche looks like a great idea but I can't get it delivered up here for less the 90+ bucks. Is it something new? I wonder if there will be some reasonably priced knock-offs soon.
i found the same thing renoman the cost to get it shipped to the edmonton area was high. so i went to crappy tire and bought a 5qt lagostina oval coated cast iron about 65 bucks works like a charm.
Quote from: Saber 4 on February 24, 2014, 05:28:32 PM
Looks good iceman, how did the parchment paper work for you? I've found after the first couple of bakes with some dusted flour that it gets seasoned and the bread just pops out with no flour dusting.
Just using the parchment for the first few times. The plan is to wipe down with oil a couple more times to season it and try it without paper. Wish I would of found one of these years ago! I'm really liking this no knead baking. Tried a pizza dough awhile ago and loved it. Used half caputo 00 and half UB all purpose flour. Went easy on the toppins and it was a hit with the boss lady.
Thanks for the input folks. Looks like it's time to re write the baking notes. ;D
I'm thinking Saber
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Oops I meant to say that Saber, Snoopy and if I'm not mistaken Sifumar should be getting royalty checks from the outfit that sells these cloches!
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Quote from: tailfeathers on February 25, 2014, 03:39:57 PM
Oops I meant to say that Saber, Snoopy and if I'm not mistaken Sifumar should be getting royalty checks from the outfit that sells these cloches!
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Now that would be nice, of course I keep checking CL for a cheap enamel Dutch oven so I can do the occasional round loaf for special occasions so I don't ruin the seasoning on my cast iron.
They make Dutch oven sized parchment liners that work well. Got mine at wal-world very reasonable if I remember right. 10 to Box.
Well, after looking around at local shops and asking if they could order one in with no success, we bit the bullet and ordered one from WS. This is an extravagant purchase for Canadians because of horrendous shipping charges. Ah well, it's a treat for my birthday. I'll post a pic of our first loaf once it arrives. I will give it up to you Yanks, you sure do logistics well, wish we could pull that off without getting gouged.
Quote from: WoodlawnSmoker on February 26, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
Well, after looking around at local shops and asking if they could order one in with no success, we bit the bullet and ordered one from WS. This is an extravagant purchase for Canadians because of horrendous shipping charges. Ah well, it's a treat for my birthday. I'll post a pic of our first loaf once it arrives. I will give it up to you Yanks, you sure do logistics well, wish we could pull that off without getting gouged.
I can't believe WS doesn't ship from within Canada since they have so many stores there. We need to start figuring out what we can ship across the borders both ways as individuals maybe we can start helping get the things we can't get on our side cheaper.
A nice cheese (smoked extra sharp cheddar) loaf to have for lunch along with some rainbow trout and friulano cheese.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/ottawanitro/84bd7613-57a8-458f-95e7-054faf8c169d_zpsd670c305.jpg)
Looks really good! You will love that cloche, there is no end to the combinations of ingredients for different flavored breads.
That is a great looking loaf and like TF said the combo's are only limited by your imagination and flavor preferences.
Just purchased one of the La Cloche Bakers and here is the first loaf. Makes a lovely loaf.
(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o743/tulla9/002_zpsa17e7d59.jpg) (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/tulla9/media/002_zpsa17e7d59.jpg.html)
Nice loaf Tulla, you'll be hooked now for sure.
Saber, i am just tucking into a slice as i speak. Must say these things make an exceptional end product. Cant wait to start getting adventurous with this.
You can do all kinds of neat add ins to the basic recipe like raisins and cinnamon, shredded cheese and peppers, herbs, bacon and cheese, or you can substitute one cup of flour with one cup of rye flour and caraway seeds and get a real tasty rye bread.
Also you can adjust the crustiness by playing with the un covered cook time.
Good stuff Tulla! This purchase was a stretch for us but it really does do the job well. The Farmer's Markets are going to be setting up very soon here, I can't wait to troll them for fresh ingredients to add to these loaves, I expect new creations with each season. It's been a long winter here, I can't wait to prepare this stuff and sit on a sunny deck enjoying it all.
Read this and just had to mix up another green olive/pepperoni/cheddar batch of dough to bake tomorrow!!
Quote from: tailfeathers on March 26, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
Read this and just had to mix up another green olive/pepperoni/cheddar batch of dough to bake tomorrow!!
That sounds awesome, I wonder if you could fold in a little bit of pizza sauce when you take the dough out of the bowl and have a full blown pizza loaf?
That's an interesting idea, I just might give that a try. What would you say, maybe between a couple T of pizza sauce? 1/4 cup? I'm thinking sort of gently fold it into the dough when I take it out of the bowl for the 1/2 hr rise while the cloche preheats. Good idea, thanks Saber! I will let you know how it "pans out"!
Quote from: tailfeathers on March 26, 2014, 06:50:16 PM
That's an interesting idea, I just might give that a try. What would you say, maybe between a couple T of pizza sauce? 1/4 cup? I'm thinking sort of gently fold it into the dough when I take it out of the bowl for the 1/2 hr rise while the cloche preheats. Good idea, thanks Saber! I will let you know how it "pans out"!
I'd say your on the right track with the amount of sauce, I think you'll just have to eyeball it as you fold it in, that's what I do with the cinnamon when I do raisin bread now. I put the raisins in when I mix the dough then when I fold the dough I layer on the cinnamon so I have layers instead of cinnamon colored bread. Can't wait to see the pictures of how this one "pans out"!
Excellent ideas. That is what i enjoy about this whole adventure. You take the fundamentals, observe input from like minded people, let the creative juices flow and run with it.
As far as the bread goes the missus loves it and reckons it is spot on.
Well here we go...(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/nama7y4y.jpg)I like these to cover the bowl overnight(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/dy8are2a.jpg)here it is just before removing from the bowl, it rose nicely(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/tenepa5a.jpg)folded in about 3T of pizza sauce and formed into a loaf(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/pyjutesu.jpg)After 1/2 hr removed cover from cloche(http://img.tapatalk.comd/14/03/27/9u4ydy5e.jpg)eight more minutes uncovered(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/u3esadaz.jpg)delicious(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/a7adadu8.jpg)Thank you Saber for the idea to add the pizza sauce, it really put this "over the top"!
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Well here we go...
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Here's the shot after 1/2 hr when cloche uncovered. Didn't take on the other post for some reason. Thanks everybody!(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/27/muvuju6e.jpg)
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Quote from: Saber 4 on March 26, 2014, 06:20:37 PM
Quote from: tailfeathers on March 26, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
Read this and just had to mix up another green olive/pepperoni/cheddar batch of dough to bake tomorrow!!
That sounds awesome, I wonder if you could fold in a little bit of pizza sauce when you take the dough out of the bowl and have a full blown pizza loaf?
Guys, I'm thinking that pizza sauce, or marinara sauce, would add a lot of moisture to your bread dough. But, if you used something like sun dried tomatoes and oregano, or squeezed the juice out of fresh tomatoes through some cheese cloth, you might be able to get the flavors for a pizza bread, without the additional moisture. If you've got a dehydrator, I'd think partially dried fresh tomato slices, chopped up, would work well, too.
I've still got some tomatoes that I dehydrated last fall with basil and oregano, and in fact the first time I made crusty bread I chopped some up in the dough and it turned out pretty good. I have to say the flavor is better on this loaf though, but you are right, the loaf is plenty "dense". Not to the point of being doughy, but I was thinking if I did this again I might cut back the water by a few T to compensate for the additional moisture provided by the sauce.
Quote from: tailfeathers on March 27, 2014, 02:16:40 PM
I've still got some tomatoes that I dehydrated last fall with basil and oregano, and in fact the first time I made crusty bread I chopped some up in the dough and it turned out pretty good. I have to say the flavor is better on this loaf though, but you are right, the loaf is plenty "dense". Not to the point of being doughy, but I was thinking if I did this again I might cut back the water by a few T to compensate for the additional moisture provided by the sauce.
Might take some trial and error to get it dialed in, but I certainly think you're on the right track.
I am certainly enjoying this thread and the ideas you guys are coming up with. Haven't done any serious baking since I was a young snot working in restaurant bakeries. But you guys are giving me ideas. Now, if I could just dump this day job for a life of leisure, baking, smoking, and sausage making, I'd be in hog heaven. Of course, hog heaven is located right next to the smoke house, which is next to the micro brewery, which is next to the winery, which will now be next to the bakery. Obviously, I'm not gonna have any time for a paying job any more.
Be careful what you wish for. I finally got back to work the middle of last week, 1/2 day every other day. The time off hasn't been what you would call the fun kind, haven't been able to get out to the smoker but I have been able to do a little dehydrating/cooking/baking (thank God). It's about the only thing keeping me from going stir crazy. That and these forums. SWMBO has been fairly cooperative on some new toys, I've been playing the sympathy card pretty hard. Got a new KA stand mixer, and just ordered chef's choice grinder attachment for it as well as a LEM 5# vertical stuffer. Sausage making here I come!!!
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Quote from: tailfeathers on March 27, 2014, 03:00:18 PM
Be careful what you wish for. I finally got back to work the middle of last week, 1/2 day every other day. The time off hasn't been what you would call the fun kind, haven't been able to get out to the smoker but I have been able to do a little dehydrating/cooking/baking (thank God). It's about the only thing keeping me from going stir crazy. That and these forums. SWMBO has been fairly cooperative on some new toys, I've been playing the sympathy card pretty hard. Got a new KA stand mixer, and just ordered chef's choice grinder attachment for it as well as a LEM 5# vertical stuffer. Sausage making here I come!!!
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Glad to hear you're getting up and around again, just in time for spring! Your pizza loaf looks great, Ive gotta try that. You're going to love your new toys.
Man that loaf looks awesome, I can smell it from here. I wonder if the sauce could be added in the beginning with a little less water or if you could put the sauce in a couple of coffee filters to let the moisture drip out and leave you with a thicker tomato goodness, or maybe even a thick tomato paste with Italian seasoning mixed in. Just some off the top of my head thoughts for your tweaking batches. Keep us posted, I know I would have to slice it, a little butter and garlic salt and into the toaster oven for a little super garlic bread action. :D
Exactly what is in store for tonight's supper. I'm thinking it'll make the best garlic toast ever.
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tailfeathers, you're going to love that stuffer. I tried the KA stuffer attachment once. It worked. But is was slow and a bit fussy. The LEM 5# stuffer? Like ground meat through a tin horn. I did upgrade from the plastic stuffing tubes that my LEM came with to the stainless ones. Haven't tried them out yet, but some elk and pork summer sausage is on the docket for a week from tomorrow.
The lem 5# stuffer works very well. The stainless tubes are Great!!