Does anyone have a good European wiener/Vienna sausage recipe? My wife was trying to find some like her grandmother used to buy 3 decades ago. The family owned deli went out of business years ago and she hasn't found anything close at the large chain stores.
Maybe one here you could use?
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.bradleysmoker.com%2Findex.php%3FPHPSESSID%3D5pd3iq5dpsq0sa0fcd104us0o2%26topic%3D22024.msg266861%23msg266861
I looked at the recipe from Len Poli and might give it a try. It looked a lot like the recipe I have used for hotdogs though.
My wife being from Canada loves the European wiener but we can't find then here in the states. What we have found is a skinless or old fanshioned wiener but that's not close either. Please keep us posted if you find a true European recipe. Good luck.
I will let you know if I find anything. I have been looking at a few recipes but can't say that they look right. And by that statement I mean that I am basing it off having already made home made hot dogs. All the European wiener recipes I have seen posted have almost identical ingredients as most hotdog recipes and I can assure you that the taste is very different. I might just have to start making small test batches.
What is it that you think is missing in the recipes that you've looked at?
I am not sure but I am going to use the recipe I have found and eliminate the mace for sure. The European wieners have a much more mild taste. I have found that most of the hotdog recipes have a very distinct spice that stands out quite a lot.
Some of it was my fault though but it was more if a texture thing and not a flavour problem. I got lazy and triple ground the meat instead of emulsifying it and I didn't have sheep casings. For some reason they are harder to find here so I had to use synthetic which didn't give them the snap when you night in.
My plan is to eliminate the strong spice I find in the hot dog recipes and try and determine what the rest of the recipe is missing. I foresee lots of test batches of sausage in my future lol.
Keep a log of your attempts, that way when you arrive at weiner heaven you will be able to duplicate with consistency. And there's something to be said for developing a recipe that you can call your very own! Just promise to share it with us when you find it. :)
I will do. I keep a spreadsheet for everything I cure with notes in the bottom describing what I like/didn't like and what I would do differently as well as the date that it was made. If and when I get to what we believe to be a perfect duplication I will definitely share with others.
Can't say I've had any canadian sausage except some made by the Indians up near Stanley Mission. But every time I'm over the big waters, I taste cardamon in many of the milder sausages over there.
It's funny that you would mention cardamom because the recipe I have been wavering on has cardamom in it. I can't say I have ever cooked with it or used it in sausage. I have probably had it but not sure I could pick it out. You have maybe pushed me to try this recipe http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=5034&sid=fa60a1aad12a70df0ebab926225af63c
NS,
The reason I asked what might be missing is that I've been on a quest since I started making my own sausage and hot dogs for a recipe that will create a hotdog from my childhood. I will know immediately if I taste it. My grandparents and my parents were from Chicago and they used to get these kosher hotdogs (true kosher)that were in a small hog casing, so they were a larger diameter and the spice combo was exquisite. I don't know if the spice combo was ethnic and regional. They had a snap when you bit into them because of the natural casing and were quite red in color, so that would mean paprika. I sometimes dream of these at night. Seriously.
Here is a hot dog recipe that I think resembles the store bought hot dogs I loved as a kid. After much experimentation, the key to getting the taste I wanted was to take the time to completely emulsify the meat and the hot bath after the smoke.
10 lb Hot Dogs
Pork lb 3.5
Lean GB (90/10) lb 5
Beef Fat lb 1.5
cure #1 tsp 2
Kosher salt tbs 4
Paprika tbs 4
ground mustard tbs 6
black pepper tsp 1
white pepper tsp 1
celery seeds tsp 1
mace tbs 1
garlic powder tsp 1
non fat dry milk cup 2
powder dextrose tbs 4
corn syrup solids cup 1/3 (Corrected 5/8/14)
Cold Water cup 2
Hog or sheep casings
Mix all the dry ingredients (except the cure) and grind to a coarse powder. Put meat into the mixer, add the water, add the ground ingredients. Mix the cure in a small amount of water, pour into mixer. Mix until emulsified (VERY IMPORTANT). Stuff in casings. (I've used both sheep and hog casings.) Put it in the fridge overnight (optional). Next day heat the Smoker to 120* put the dogs in for an hour, then 1 hour of hickory at 140*. Then into a 160* bath until IT reached 152 ish. Then into an ice bath for about 15 minutes. The hang to bloom for about an hour. After that just throw a few on the grill.
Quote from: GusRobin on May 07, 2014, 06:41:31 PM
Here is a hot dog recipe that I think resembles the store bought hot dogs I loved as a kid. After much experimentation, the key to getting the taste I wanted was to take the time to completely emulsify the meat and the hot bath after the smoke.
10 lb Hot Dogs
Pork lb 3.5
Lean GB (90/10) lb 5
Beef Fat lb 1.5
cure #1 tsp 2
Kosher salt tbs 4
Paprika tbs 4
ground mustard tbs 6
black pepper tsp 1
white pepper tsp 1
celery seeds tsp 1
mace tbs 1
garlic powder tsp 1
non fat dry milk cup 2
powder dextrose tbs 4
corn syrup solids cup 1 1/3
Cold Water cup 2
Hog or sheep casings
Mix all the dry ingredients (except the cure) and grind to a coarse powder. Put meat into the mixer, add the water, add the ground ingredients. Mix the cure in a small amount of water, pour into mixer. Mix until emulsified (VERY IMPORTANT). Stuff in casings. (I've used both sheep and hog casings.) Put it in the fridge overnight (optional). Next day heat the Smoker to 120* put the dogs in for an hour, then 1 hour of hickory at 140*. Then into a 160* bath until IT reached 152 ish. Then into an ice bath for about 15 minutes. The hang to bloom for about an hour. After that just throw a few on the grill.
Gus he recipe sounds great! I am just wondering if you have a typo on the corn syrup solids as you say 1 1/3 cup....that is quite a bit of corn syrup solids for 10 pounds of meat. Just wanting to make sure it was not a typo.
Quote from: Sailor on May 08, 2014, 05:45:30 AM
Quote from: GusRobin on May 07, 2014, 06:41:31 PM
Here is a hot dog recipe that I think resembles the store bought hot dogs I loved as a kid. After much experimentation, the key to getting the taste I wanted was to take the time to completely emulsify the meat and the hot bath after the smoke.
10 lb Hot Dogs
Pork lb 3.5
Lean GB (90/10) lb 5
Beef Fat lb 1.5
cure #1 tsp 2
Kosher salt tbs 4
Paprika tbs 4
ground mustard tbs 6
black pepper tsp 1
white pepper tsp 1
celery seeds tsp 1
mace tbs 1
garlic powder tsp 1
non fat dry milk cup 2
powder dextrose tbs 4
corn syrup solids cup 1 1/3
Cold Water cup 2
Hog or sheep casings
Mix all the dry ingredients (except the cure) and grind to a coarse powder. Put meat into the mixer, add the water, add the ground ingredients. Mix the cure in a small amount of water, pour into mixer. Mix until emulsified (VERY IMPORTANT). Stuff in casings. (I've used both sheep and hog casings.) Put it in the fridge overnight (optional). Next day heat the Smoker to 120* put the dogs in for an hour, then 1 hour of hickory at 140*. Then into a 160* bath until IT reached 152 ish. Then into an ice bath for about 15 minutes. The hang to bloom for about an hour. After that just throw a few on the grill.
Gus he recipe sounds great! I am just wondering if you have a typo on the corn syrup solids as you say 1 1/3 cup....that is quite a bit of corn syrup solids for 10 pounds of meat. Just wanting to make sure it was not a typo.
Yes it was a typo - thanks for catching it. Should be 1/3 cup not 1 1/3. I corrected original post.
Quote from: Salmonsmoker on May 07, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
NS,
The reason I asked what might be missing is that I've been on a quest since I started making my own sausage and hot dogs for a recipe that will create a hotdog from my childhood. I will know immediately if I taste it. My grandparents and my parents were from Chicago and they used to get these kosher hotdogs (true kosher)that were in a small hog casing, so they were a larger diameter and the spice combo was exquisite. I don't know if the spice combo was ethnic and regional. They had a snap when you bit into them because of the natural casing and were quite red in color, so that would mean paprika. I sometimes dream of these at night. Seriously.
part of your quest could have to do with your casings, true kosher would not have a hog casing, it should have something kosher like sheep casings. You might check with a kosher deli if you know of one they might have an idea of what you got as a kid.
Thanks for all the info. I have ordered sheep casings and am going to try the one recipe I found with cardamom. I only plan on making a 2.5 pound batch so I have something to taste and a starting point to modify from if need be.
I always test fry a small sample just to see if my salt levels are on par. I find that frying does not give a true taste of how the end product taste only rather a very rough estimate. So I believe I won't know truely how close I am until they are finished and cooled.
Well I went with the recipe I posted a link to earlier. I ran out of time to stuff which isnt a problem because my sheep casings didn't show up today. If they are not here tomorrow I will make them in collagen casings but not finish them in the Bradley. I fried up a test piece and the texture seemed good but I think it will need more salt. Time will tell. I should have a report back tomorrow.
Quote from: Saber 4 on May 09, 2014, 10:15:28 AM
Quote from: Salmonsmoker on May 07, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
NS,
The reason I asked what might be missing is that I've been on a quest since I started making my own sausage and hot dogs for a recipe that will create a hotdog from my childhood. I will know immediately if I taste it. My grandparents and my parents were from Chicago and they used to get these kosher hotdogs (true kosher)that were in a small hog casing, so they were a larger diameter and the spice combo was exquisite. I don't know if the spice combo was ethnic and regional. They had a snap when you bit into them because of the natural casing and were quite red in color, so that would mean paprika. I sometimes dream of these at night. Seriously.
part of your quest could have to do with your casings, true kosher would not have a hog casing, it should have something kosher like sheep casings. You might check with a kosher deli if you know of one they might have an idea of what you got as a kid.
True story on the hog casings Saber, they would not have been hog casings. I was thinking of the casing size I use when I make my hot dogs. I no longer live near Chicago(west coast) where my folks grew up and the ethnicity of the neighborhoods shift over the years.(it's been 50 years) It would be fun to do some exploring If I ever got back there.
Well my sheep casings showed up today so this test batch is stuffed and in the smoker. Hopefully by the end of the day I will have something to report back :)
I'm looking forward to hearing about your results and seeing the final recipe when you get it tweaked the way you remember. There's nothing more satisfying than recreating a sausage from taste memory and getting it right.
NS....What size sheep casing did you use and please hurry as the excitement of finding out how it worked is killing me. Thanks Tim
Quote from: Northern_Smoke on May 09, 2014, 10:37:13 AM
Thanks for all the info. I have ordered sheep casings and am going to try the one recipe I found with cardamom. I only plan on making a 2.5 pound batch so I have something to taste and a starting point to modify from if need be.
I always test fry a small sample just to see if my salt levels are on par. I find that frying does not give a true taste of how the end product taste only rather a very rough estimate. So I believe I won't know truely how close I am until they are finished and cooled.
I agree with you on this point. I think the best use of this is to check for salt levels. Other spices seem to really bloom after the stuffing/aging/smoking processes are complete. I made a sausage with tarragon in it and thought it was a perfect level when I tested the small sample, but after stuffing, packing, freezing, etc we could barely taste the tarragon in the finished product. Next time, of course, I'll add lots more knowing that it might mellow over time.
Let us know how your sausages turn out!!!
Sausage was made and the tasting has happened. First things first is my instinct was to cut back on the mace but I made it as the recipe stated so I had a base line. Turns out I was right and should have cut it back. Secondly it needed more salt. I found it a bit lacking which maybe threw off the rest if the taste. And thirdly, this recipe called for flour to be added and I think I would eliminate that next time. It gave it a funny texture. It almost tasted light an airy. I am not sure how to describe that one but it just wasn't right. I think I will actually eat a few more pieces just to see if I can pinpoint the spice changes since I already know the other few thing I would change.
One thing I did wonder about was maybe it felt airy because of the food processor step and not the addition of flour. It's something I will have to test out.
Sounds like you've got a good baseline and a direction to go with the next batch.
NS
Maybe instead of using flour as your thickener what about using NFDM as the binder? Keep us informed and keep up the good detective work.
That's what I was thinking. I will try the NFDM along with the few other changes I noted. Hopefully that will get me closer.