Has anyone tried smoking Top Loin. This is the cut of beef that New York Strip stakes are cut from. I just got a 9.5 pound piece, from the rib end, and plan on smoking half of it. Has anyone smoked a Top Loin. I'm planning on not tying it, and leaving it flat.
I'm figuring on smoking it at 250°F, until an internal temperature of 130°F-135°F.
Never tried that piece but seems like the temp is pretty high. Do you have a reason for thinking 250? My prime rib experience has been 220. BTW at least with PR it seems to always be better smoke flavor the next day. Your cut would be denser so I dont know. Real interested in results!
Not with the Bradley, but I have smoked strips on my charcoal/wood smoker. 200 to 215 should be fine. My preferred wood on these is oak, although hickory, mesquete, and pecan work fairly well. They should come out with a beautiful rose/pink color. One of my favorites.
The recipe I am following is being modified from oven roasting, to roasting in a smoker. It calls for trimming all fat and the removal of the thin layer of connective tissue on the surface of the meat. It will be covered with a rosemary/garlic paste. I see no reason for low and slow, and I don't plan to apply that much smoke. So I thought I would roast it at the temperature the recipe has for oven roasting. I am planning on using oak.
Will be lean. Getting it done quickly makes sense. In the oven would the roasting pan be covered in the recipe? It will be interesting to hear the result. I will try one in a couple of weeks when my schedule settles down. I will try a little different approach. Perhaps lower temp with smoke a little longer at the lower temp and then turn it up for a run to the finish. Good luck, we can compare notes.
Hab -
Top loin is my favorite cut of beef (best combination of flavor and tenderness). I have dry-aged it for 4-5 days prior to roasting in the oven (low and slow after searing the outside for flavor in a very hot skillet) to an internal temp of ~125 - 130 for the slightly rare side of med-rare; see discussion elsewhere about dry-aging. But I have never smoked it. I think if I were to try it, I might smoke it ahead of time at a relatively low temp, then on the day of serving, finish either whole on the grill or in the oven, or cut into 1.5-2" steaks to sear on the grill or in a cast iron skillet on the stove. Of course you could accomplish the entire cooking/roasting in the BS too. Please let us know what you do and how it turns out. Sounds like a great thing to try.
The oven recipe calls for starting off with a 450°F oven for 15 minutes (which is to obtain the same results as Asa gets by shearing), then turning it down to 250°F. If I brown first, I may not get enough smoke flavor.
It is roasted uncovered. I've posted an link to show you how much this recipe requires you to trim off. The reason the magazine give for removing the thin layer of connective tissue under the fat; other then it is tough as the video states, it's because the connective tissue traps heat. This will cause the top half of the roast to cook much faster than the bottom half.
I'll post the results. I'm hoping to get to this tomorrow. Today is going to be too windy. The cut is too big for the tray, so I'm going to cut it in half. I'm going to watch this very closely. One mistake can be very costly.
This link should work. I don't believe you need to be a subscriber to Cuisine. The web only list more detailed techniques used in the printed recipes, not the actual recipe that is contained in the magazine. You may need Media Player for this video.
http://www.cuisineathome.com/main/videos/60-trimmingTopLoin.php
Hab S thanks for the link. This should be fun to try - will be going against a few of my old rules but nothing ventured nothing gained! I think ... i think, i think ... I will toss the fat on a high rack just for some piece of mind when I ramp the temp up at the end. I will keep it low temp with smoke for two hours and then a little more when the temp goes up. You and wildcat have me there on using Oak. I may be allowing enough time for the piece to dry out? We will see. Will let you know.
It's looking like I won't get to this until Tuesday. I'm still thinking about how to finish this off. I would like a crust, and I don't think I will get one if I keep the temperature at 250°F. The wet rub contains egg white to help the rub adhere and to form a crust, but I may dust the meat with cornstarch prior to applying the rub. If a crust does not form I thought about ramping up the temperature at the end, but also thought of taking it out of the smoker when the internal temperatures hits 120°F, putting it in a preheated oven at 450°F for 15 minutes. If the meat doesn't reach 135°F after 15 minutes, then I would turn down the heat to 250°F.
Quote from: Habanero Smoker on October 29, 2006, 01:52:00 PM
thought of taking it out of the smoker when the internal temperatures hits 120°F, putting it in a preheated oven at 450°F for 15 minutes. If the meat doesn't reach 135°F after 15 minutes, then I would turn down the heat to 250°F.
That sounds like the best idea. I don't think you'll achieve the outside you want in the BS. You could also throw it on the grill to sear at the end - I think that would produce a good finish for you.
Not sure what happened. I just did a long babbling reply that did not take.
Hab S, I think you have a plan! Not sure you will get much IT movement on a 9# piece in 15 minutes but all you need is the outside for the crust anyway.
Since I did not get to go to the game today I went to the store and bought a 6# top loin. Started at 12:30 at 170 for two hours (kind of since no preheat and meat was right out of butcher's cooler). I moved to 210 a few minutes ago and will stay there for two more hours. The oak smoke will be done then - total of 4 hours. At this point I will up the temp (250) to finish - thinking 160 to 170 IT - will likely change that if it starts to look like jerky. I used dry spice not a wet rub. I am thinking 1/2 inch slices cause that is all the Waring Pro will do.
I also have a half brisket flat on the second from top rack and the loin fat on the top rack. I have started to have good luck with the small pieces of brisket in the BS. Yet to get great results on a full flat (though the points turn out well) The small flat is a little over 2 1/2 pounds and inches thick. I will pull it, foil, and finish in the oven if necessary.
I used to do these on a verticle grill/smoker (Fire box immediately below the racks)using a spit mount. This obviously ran pretty hot most of the time. I would get my crust by frequent slatherings and turning rotations. They were good!
See babbled twice...
I'm interested in how you top loin turned out. For me a meat temperature between 160°F-170°F sound high for steak.
I agree with Habanero Smoker, unless your preference is for something very well done and gray in color. I've been surprised at some of the temp ranges quoted in books. As mentioned elsewhere, I've seemed to have good luck getting to medium-rare with a low-and-slow method that gets there around 125-130 degrees. Some references would call that very rare but it seemed warmed through and starting to set up well and cook, nice and pink but definitely not slick-rare-raw.
Came out like this... yea, we (wife likes it more done than most) I like it too now that I am used to it. Tender and not being dry is more important to me and is why I started smoking. Tried to twist and turn cuts to show surface area as much as I could. - looks odd. Top of loin is about 2 oclock. I will usually target 160 - or up a little really based on time available - because it seems like most of the cooking happens at 140 to 150 internal temp. The 160 gives the rendering an hour and a little more to run around inside the piece. I probably don't have the reasons right but we dont throw a lot away either. I was worried about the high temp on this one cooking too fast after my lower temp smoke for 4 hours. The little oyster bottle in the back is captured from the FTC.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/WCK_02/IMG_0345.jpg)
WOW, that's a nice looking plate of meat!!! :)
It looks good. I haven't gotten around to putting mine is the smoker. I have to get that done this afternoon. The internal meat temperatures of 140°F-150°F, are the temperatures at which the meat start releasing it's juices much faster, and noticeably shrinks.
At this time I'm going to stick with 130°F-135°F.
Well after looking at the cut I decided to only use half of it as a roast and cut the other half into strip steaks. I started with a 5 pound cut, and after trimming there was only 3 ¾ pounds left to roast. Though this recipe stated that the rub will cover a 5 pound trimmed roast, there was barely enough to cover my 4 pound roast. I added cornstarch to help form the crust. I don't know if it did any good or not, but the final product had a nice crust. For this type of meat cut, I don't like too much smoke, so I only applied 1 hour 40 minutes of smoke. It came out alright. The meat was moist and medium rare, and it had a nice outer crust.
I decided to use the garlic-rosemary wet rub that was in the Cuisine article. If you don't like this rub, use your own, but I do recommend that you make it a paste using the egg white and some liquid of your choice. The egg white helps the rub adhere to the meat, and helps to develop the crust. If you use soy sauce as the liquid, reduce the salt in your rub.
3 T. ground dried rosemary
3 T. soy sauce
2 T. freshly ground black pepper
1 T. granulated garlic
2 t. red pepper flakes
½ t. kosher salt
1 egg white, beaten
5-7 pound boneless beef top loin roast from rib end. The rib end is more tender then the sirloin end.
3 T. olive oil
Cornstarch (optional)
Mix the first seven ingredients to form a paste.
Trim roast of all surface fat and silver skin (connective tissue just under the fat layer).
Use paper towels and pat trimmed roast dry, and coat with olive oil. If using cornstarch, lightly dust the top and sides of the meat. I used about 1 tablespoon.
Next rub paste on top and sides of the roast. Let rest at room temperature for 30 minutes before placing in a preheated 250°F smoker. Apply smoke until the internal meat temperature reaches 120°F. This took 1 hour and 45 minutes. If you like more smoke, then reduce the cabinet temperature to 220°F.
Remove roast from smoker when it reaches 120°F, and place in a preheated 450°F oven for 10 minutes, until roast internal temperature is 130°F. This will give it a nice crust. Monitor this closely, because your roast may reach 130°F before 10 minutes. Also you have to be careful that the rub does not burn. If roast has not reached 130°F by 10 minutes, or the rub is beginning to char, reduce heat to 250°F and crack oven door, to help reduce the oven temperature. Continue to cook until internal temperature reaches 130°F.
Remove from oven and let rest for 30 minutes. During this time the roast will reach 135°F. To serve carve into thin slices.
I did take pictures, but between working on my deck, and drinking Samuel Adams Winter Larger; I may have screwed that up. I won't know until after the camera's battery is recharged. Hopefully I will be able to post them later.
Hope the pics come out .This one has my intrerest.I will give this one a try and post back how good or not good it works out .Thanks habs. ;)
Kansan on the Left Coast:
Well, I've just changed my mind. I certainly wouldn't turn down a couple of slices of that good looking roast. Your point is a good one about the most important thing being tasty, tender, and not dried out. Good job.
Hey folks , If you're gonna be passing THAT plate around...don't forget
the ol'coyote ;D
Moist and delicious :) Looks real good!
Hab S. You have a great plan. Will be fun to see / hear the results. I guess the bottom line is after the first one we have an experience to begin tweaking till it is just right. Will be different for everyones taste. Good thing is ability to share and find the short cut to our own perfection.
Here are the pictures. I didn't notice that the battery in the camera was getting low, so the flash was not at full power. I may clean the pictures up latters. These are clickable, so click on image to enlarge.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/th_TopLoin2b.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/TopLoin2b.jpg)
Untrimmed
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/th_TopLoin3b.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/TopLoin3b.jpg)
Fully Trimmed
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/th_TopLoin6b.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/TopLoin6b.jpg)
Smoked finished
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/th_TopLoin7b.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Formatted/Top_Loin/TopLoin7b.jpg)
Oven Finised & Slice
Yes sir ill be trying this one .Nice and i like the combo of spices in the mix.Will keep ya updated habs ill give it a try.
HabS.
Question: why the 100% trim on (or off really) the fat? Would leaving some on the beef be desirable along the self basting circuit?
thanks,
mld
Quote from: winemakers on November 02, 2006, 07:37:43 AM
HabS.
Question: why the 100% trim on (or off really) the fat? Would leaving some on the beef be desirable along the self basting circuit?
thanks,
mld
The article gave a few reasons for trimming all the fat. You need to remove the fat to get to the silver skin, which if not removed will be tough and cause the rub to cook unevenly. Also the removal of the fat helps the meat cook more evenly. Removing the fat allows you to apply the rub directly to the meat surface. Finally, you don't have to cut it off latter. It is not mentioned in the article, but this cut has a lot of marbling. If I had shown pictures of the underside of the cut, you could see the marbling better. The way that it is cooked there is no need for more fat to keep the meat moist. I guess it would not hurt to leave some on, but after doing this way I don't see a need to keep some fat on.
Bottom line is the flavor, and you didn't mention any complaints. Mouth watering photos............
;D
mld
edit: and hoorah for my promotion.
The flavor is good, and the meat very tender. Though next time I'll try a different rub. I just have to make sure the doesn't contain sugar. I fear that sugar would burn during the oven phase.
This afternoon I made a cold New York strip steak sandwich. It just needed a little pepper, mayo and thinly sliced red onions. Man was that good.
HS:
Looks great. What didn't you like about the rub that you want to change? My guess is that the rosemary may have come through a bit strong. What are you thinking about changing for the next crust? Thanks for this great idea and for posting your progress.
Art
It is a BEAUTIFUL thing! Wish I knew how to make smaller pictures. I have heard complaints about big ones like I load.
Way to go winemakers 100 posts.............Looks like we all like to chime in ;D
Congrats, Coyote
my wife would be thrilled to find a place that documents my marginal questions and mundane remarks!
mld
Asa;
The rosemary wasn't too strong, unless you are eating the end pieces. I never was a rosemary fan, but I thought I would give this a try; the recipe looked too good to pass it up. I usually do not like too much seasoning on my beef, and when I do briskets I generally use garlic, salt and pepper. I would probably make this using the same recipe again, when I am serving it to guests. Though next time I'm thinking about going more towards a pepper/garlic crust, maybe with some coriander. I know I may have to add something to ensure the paste is thick enough. I would use a combination of worcestershire sauce and balsamic vinegar instead of soy sauce.
WCK;
I use Photobucket. It does everything for you. You don't even need to create a thumbnail of your picture. Once you load your pictures on Photobucket, just check the picture(s) you want to post. Next, the only thing you have to do click on the "Generate HTML and IMG code." button located at the bottom of the page. That will take you to a new screen listing a bunch of codes. Copy the code the is within the box "IMG clickable thumbnails for message boards - recommended". Then just paste that into your post. It will create a thumbnail picture and link to the original size photo. The only thing I do is to reduce the size of my photos by 50% before posting. If not my photos would be around 8 megs.
Edited:
I just noticed you use Photobucket, so you are all set. I'm sure that other image hosting sites have similiar options.
Yes, I learned about photobucket on the forum. Did not pay enough attention to see the other options. I guess some users are on dial up so will try to do this next time. THANKS!