I've been doing some reading on both salami and summer sausage because I want to make some in the next few weeks. I just thought I would throw some of the information out here to see what your thoughts are.
From what I can gather to make a fermented type sausage you need to use a starter culture of some kind. I know in the book "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing", he uses Fermento. Unfortunately that is a product that is not available locally so I decided to do some research on it. From what I've read some people use a number of things such as encapsulated citric acid, butter milk solids and butter milk in order to get that "tang" flavor. What I managed to find locally is a product from JB Sausage. It's called Salami Starter. It's ingredients are dextrose, corn syrup solids and glucono delta lactone. Now from my understanding the glucono delta lactone or GDL consumes the dextrose which produces the lactic acid which produces the "tang" in the sausage.
Here is a couple of quotes taken from this site http://schmidling.com/saus.htm
"Cured sausages can further be divided into semi-dry and dried sausages. Semi-dry sausages, such as summer sausage and hot dogs are cooked, either in hot water or a smokehouse and will keep under refrigeration for months. Dry sausages are not cooked but are dried to about 75% of their stuffed weight over a period of several months and will keep for years at room temperature. Both types can be fermented by the addition of a lactic acid producing bacteria culture that provides a wonderful tang to the sausage in addition to the enhancement of long keeping qualities."
"In use, the culture is mixed with a little water and sugar and then mixed in (along with the spices) with the meat mixture. After stuffing, the sausage is held at around 90F overnight for the fermentation to take place. This can be done in a smoker, oven with the light on or just take a little longer at room temperature. The sausage is then smoked, cooked or dried according to the recipe. There simply is no excuse for not fermenting if the type of sausage calls for it and that is just about all sausage except fresh."
This page, off the same site, has his recipe for both salami and summer sausage. Virtually the recipes are the same except for the type of cure and the procedure. I found it interesting how in order to make the fermentation take place he hangs it in his smoker over night at 90 degrees. http://schmidling.com/summer.htm
Have any of you used a starter culture to obtain the "tang" flavor?
Have any of you used the 90 degree over night procedure to allow the fermentation to take place?
I really don't want to do a dry salami just because of the amount of time it takes so I'm thinking of a semi-dry sausage that is as close as possible to a dry salami without the hassle. What's your thoughts?
Sorry for the long post....
Mike
PS
Here is another site I found and thought some might be interested in it with an online book called "Small-scale sausage production" from the "FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS" web site.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6556e/X6556E00.htm
Never used a starter culture, I use
Quoteencapsulated citric acid
, but have had good success with it!
Thanks Accords
I would still like to here from anybody that has used a starter culture to obtain the "tang" flavor and/or used the 90 degree over night procedure to allow the fermentation to take place?
Mike
When you say salami, is there a particular style of salami you're aiming for? Or the generic kind you get when ordering a sandwich?
I'll see what I can dig up from some of the old timers.
Consiglieri
I really like dry salami but I don't want to go through the 30 to 90 day drying procedure. When I was doing this research I can across the site in my first post ( http://schmidling.com/summer.htm ) that indicates you can get the "tangy" flavor by adding the starter culture to it then hang it in the smoker over night at 90 degrees to allow it to ferment. According to the site you can adjust the amount of time that you keep it at 90 degrees which in turn changes the amount of "tang". Then you gradually increase the temp and add smoke like you normally would bring the temp up to 152 degrees. It would appear to me that this procedure might also dry the sausage somewhat, similar to dried salami. I guess you would call it semi-dried?
I was hoping to hear from somebody who has possibly tried this method or something similar.
Mike
I've never attempted to make a sausage that has a culture, but I'm interested in hearing your results. I think Stickbowcrafter has. Salami is far down on the list of sausages I want to make.
Here's another site you may want to look at. This guy makes salami using a Bradley.
http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/page0002.htm
Thanks Habs. Once I get around to doing some I will definitely post my results. In the meantime I will just keep researching the subject.
Mike
I have a salami hanging in the cellar at present. I used a commercial culture on this one. It's only been hanging 11 days since the incubation and is still pretty squishy. I used one of Len Poli's recipes and have been using his site for years as a recipe source as well as general information. Good stuff there. When salami is done will post results.
Mike & 3resho;
Thanks in advance. Eventually I will try my hand at dry curing again.
Alright! I knew Mike was bitten hard by the sausage making bug ;D. One thing for sure I've learned over the years about making sausage is no matter how much I do it, there will always be more info about it that I don't know to fill a library. You can see from your first post just how confusing it can become. I have experimented a little but pretty much stick to tried and true recipes. I think that is why my sausages have turned out so well over the years, if I do say so myself. ;)
With that being said, I have some limited experience with starter cultures. I used Fermento in some Thuringer sausage I made. Man, that was some of the tastiest sausage I have ever done. Here's a link to that recipe with pictures:
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=6093.0 (http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=6093.0)
I've used Fermento in a lot of the smoked pepperoni recipes I've done as well. I've also used Bactoferm in some of the Tuscan Salami that I have done. Basically these starter cultures feed on the sugars in your recipe and produce lactic acid as a result. Lactic acid is what gives some sausages their pleasing tartness. Plus the lactic acid keeps harmful bacteria at bay, which is extremely important when dry curing sausage.
Yes, I have used the smoker to hold the sausages at different temperatures for fermentation. Works great when you have a digital temp switch or PID.
Mike, I'd agree with your initial assessment. Stick with smoked and semi-dry sausages for a while. I've been messing around with dry curing off and on and have yet to perfect it. I'm hoping to have my life simplified enough this year to get my basement finished and possibly build a little dry curing room under the stairs. I've found some inexpensive wine cooler units that will work perfect for keeping ideal conditions in the curing room.
-Brian
Thanks Brian!
You're right "I was bit hard"! ::)
I guess I will just have to "Do It"! :D
Mike
I have an old summer sausage recipe that is a perfect example for this problem. The recipe calls for adding all of the spices, cure, and binder to coarsely ground meat and then allowing it to ferment for 5 or 6 days at 40-46 degrees F. The method produces a much nicer, gentler tang than the new methods.
The above procedure will work, especially if everything goes just right, but it is far from certain. The man who gave the the recipe stated that it was not always a sure thing. Part of the problem is that you rely on the naturally occurring bacteria and the supply of naturally occurring sugar (glucose) in the meat to produce the lactic acid. However, if the temperature is wrong, or the naturally occurring sugars are low, or the bacterial count for the important bacteria is low, then the process will fail. Failure is also possible if the bad spoilage bacteria beat the good fermenting bacteria in their race for the meat.
One can add a real bacterial culture, and that is what industry is moving towards. That would ensure an adequate bacterial seed culture size. It will also speed the cure up because of the larger bacterial count.
One can add sugars to feed the naturally occurring bacteria. This is like Fermento and some other sugar-based products like you mention. The process works just fine.
Some mass producers may use both of the above, but at home we probably could not control it.
Lastly, one can add the requisite acid to produce the tangy flavor. It is really easy to add these naturally occurring sour chemicals. Typically, the acids added are citric acid, lactic acid, and phosphoric acids. Each acid is sour, because that is a natural property of acids, but the flavor profile for each is different, so you might want to experiment and see what you like with your recipe. In addition, phosphoric acid can help meat retain moisture and commercial manufacturers are fond of the increased weight. If you have a dry product, you might want to select another acid.
Bad Flynch
Thanks for that. So from what I understand by using a starter culture you are kind of increasing the odds, dramically, in your favor because you are increasing the good bacteria that you want.
Here is a quote from my first post:
"What I managed to find locally is a product from JB Sausage. It's called Salami Starter. It's ingredients are dextrose, corn syrup solids and glucono delta lactone. Now from my understanding the glucono delta lactone or GDL consumes the dextrose which produces the lactic acid which produces the "tang" in the sausage."
I'm assuming by adding GDL along with dextrose it's increasing not just the odds of correct fermentation but also speeding up the process because of the larger amount of the bacterial count? I guess another question is, is Glucono Delta Lactone a bacterial starter culture? From what I can understand it is.
One more question... What do you think about the over night, at 90 degrees, fermentation step in this link ( http://schmidling.com/summer.htm )
Sorry for all the questions
Mike
copied the following, verbatim, from Wikipedia:
Glucono delta-lactone (GDL) is a naturally-occurring food additive used as a sequestrant, an acidifier, or a curing, pickling, or leavening agent. It is a cyclic ester of D-gluconic acid. Pure GDL is a white odorless crystalline powder.
GDL is commonly found in honey, fruit juices, and wine. Being acidic, it adds a tangy taste to foods, though it has roughly a third of the sourness of citric acid. It is metabolized to glucose; one gram of GDL is equivalent to one gram of sugar.
Glucono-delta-lactone, upon addition to water readily forms an equilibrium mixture of the lactone GDL and gluconic acid. The rate of hydrolysis of GDL is increased by heat and high pH.[3]
>I'm assuming by adding GDL along with dextrose it's increasing not just the odds of correct fermentation but also speeding up the process because of the larger amount of the bacterial count<
Well, even if the bacterial count is low to start with, feeding them well with sugars will allow them to grow and multiply at a prestigious rate.
>What do you think about the over night, at 90 degrees, <
Well, I don't do that. The recipe that I got, I have been eating since the early 1950s and I really do not want it changed. However, when dealing with bacteria, temperature optimization is the key. So.... use the optimal temperature for the method and with the method that they supply.
www.sausagemaker.com has all the Fermento that one would want to buy.
Thanks again Bad Flynch
The biggest problem with regards to Fermento is the fact I live in Canada. There are a lot of products that can't/won't be shipped here and I haven't found a supplier for it here.
I would be very interested in your recipe if you would care to share it. If not I can respect that as well.
I'm just trying to learn all I can.
Mike
>The biggest problem with regards to Fermento is the fact I live in Canada. There are a lot of products that can't/won't be shipped here and I haven't found a supplier for it here.<
I don't want to sound cavalier, but The Sausagemaker is in Buffalo, NY, which is not too far from some parts of Canada. In addition, they ship around the world. If you called them, they could tell you about the shipping and maybe even recommend a Canadian supplier.
Powdered skim milk can work, too, as I have seen it in many recipes. I don't really know the percentages, but somewhere that informaiton should be available.
Not a problem Bad Flynch
I have tried to order a number of things out of the USA that are restricted. I can't say that I have tried to order Fermento but I will say it would be cost prohibitive to have it shipped here. You should see some of the shipping rates/Brokers Fees I have to pay for items out of the US.
There's a fairly large sausage supply store about 40 minutes away and that is where I asked about Fermento. They told me Fermento is a product brand name that isn't available. They recomended the Salami Starter which I mentioned in my first post. It's ingredients are dextrose, corn syrup solids and glucono delta lactone. They told me to use this in place of the dextrose, corn syrup solids and fermento of whatever recipe I am using. I would hope they know what they are talking about and this is really what I would like to confirm. If this Saslami Starter will work, I would prefer to use because I can get it locally.
Mike
Well, bummer about the shipping and brokerage fees. I have not been aware of the problem coming this way.
>I would prefer to use because I can get it locally<
Well, generally that is a good idea. People have traditionally used what was available locally and in extreme cases, that is what gave some products their "taste of the place."
In any event, please report back about your experience, once done.
Hey Mike , I am no help at all for what your are needing to know....But you sure sparked my interest ,
and that's for sure ! I've made a lot of sausage , really good sausage , but when you get right down to
it I'm pretty much still a hack at best. I do believe a trip to amish country would be a worthwhile adventure. My wife has been wanting to go and it's only about a 2 hour drive.(Sugar Creek Ohio)
I've known a couple families up there for a lot of years. I know I could pick up a lot of good tricks.
Keep us posted on you progress.
Coyote
Quote from: Bad Flynch on February 06, 2008, 05:59:38 PM
>The biggest problem with regards to Fermento is the fact I live in Canada. There are a lot of products that can't/won't be shipped here and I haven't found a supplier for it here.<
I don't want to sound cavalier, but The Sausagemaker is in Buffalo, NY, which is not too far from some parts of Canada. In addition, they ship around the world. If you called them, they could tell you about the shipping and maybe even recommend a Canadian supplier.
Powdered skim milk can work, too, as I have seen it in many recipes. I don't really know the percentages, but somewhere that informaiton should be available.
I do a fair amount of baking, and came across this special dry milk formula. Do you think this would work better than regular powder milk for making salami.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/detail.jsp?id=1188
Habs,
Since I have no experience with this product, the best that I can do is offer an educated guess. The bacterium responsible for lactic acid is primarily Lactobacillus acidophilus and sometimes some others akin to it like L. bulgaricus and a couple others.
The product in question is optimized to promote the growth of Saccharomyces cerevisciae (a yeast) and might not be of any real benefit, compared to regular powdered milk. I like KA flour and like these people a lot, but this product seems to be designed for a different purpose.
Hope this helps.
Bad Flynch
I think I'm starting to understand this... Maybe! ::)
First off, the Salami Starter that is available here has an ingredients list as follows:
Dextrose, corn syrup solids and glucono delta lactone.
The Fermento ingredients are:
Corn syrup solids, glucono delta lactone and sodium erythorbate.
So... it would stand to reason why they (JB Sauage) say to replace the dextrose, corn syrup solids and Fermento with their product (Salami Starter) in whatever recipe I'm following.
Next, from the reading I've been doing either of these products still require the natural bacteria to produce the "tangy" flavor. Of course you could add a starter culture (actual freeze dried good bacteria) to ensure a better end product but not a must because it is there in the meat naturally.
So, If I understand this correctly the bacteria consumes the dextros and corn syrup solids and produces lactic acid. I am asuming the reason both Fermento and Salami Starter contain glucono delta lactone is to... sort of give it a head start.
Also, it would appear this fementation will only take place up to a certain temperature and is probably the reason the guy in the link in my first post holds his in the smoker over night at 90 degrees before he smokes it and takes it to 152 degrees internal temperature.
Is this starting to make any sense? ???
Mike
>So... it would stand to reason why they (JB Sauage) say to replace the dextrose, corn syrup solids and Fermento with their product (Salami Starter) in whatever recipe I'm following.<
Well, it looks like it is pretty much a directly competing product, so just use according to the directions provided by JB. The directions may not be significantly different, but I have no way of telling that.
>Next, from the reading I've been doing either of these products still require the natural bacteria to produce the "tangy" flavor. Of course you could add a starter culture (actual freeze dried good bacteria) to ensure a better end product but not a must because it is there in the meat naturally.<
Yes, you need an adequate natural bacterial population, but then given a lot of food, they will grow and sometimes prodigiously. Remember a couple of emails back when I said that some commercial outfits might use both? Well, I would be careful because it may be difficult to control the results at home if you use both. Too sour probably equals bad sausage.
>I am asuming the reason both Fermento and Salami Starter contain glucono delta lactone is to... sort of give it a head start.V
Probably. Just a guess, but since GDL is acidic, it can lower the pH early on to offer some protection from the bad bacteria gaining a foothold.
>Also, it would appear this fementation will only take place up to a certain temperature and is probably the reason the guy in the link in my first post holds his in the smoker over night at 90 degrees before he smokes it and takes it to 152 degrees internal temperature.<
Well, in chemistry and biology, temperature governs the rates at which reactions occur. For example, if you increase the temperature of a chemical reaction 10 deg. C., you double the rate of the reaction. In biology, the difference is similar; bacteria grow much faster as the temperature goes up.
However, with bacteria and yeasts, there are upper and lower limits to the effectiveness of this technique. It is similar to the warnings about keeping food between 40 and 140 degrees F and food poisoning growth. Below 40 degrees F and bacterial systems shut down and above 140 degrees F, bacterial enzymes begin to denature and the bacteria start to cook and die.
Their is usually an optimal temperature range for bacteria to grow. I suspect that 90 degrees is close enough to body temperature to be a good culturing temperature. L. acidophilus ordinarily is associated with living animals that produce milk.
>Is this starting to make any sense? <
Sure, and the longer you work at it and learn, the more sense it will make. Keep learning.
Thanks Bad Flynch, very informative!
I may get this figured out yet! ::)
I just like to do my homework on things before I jump in, better safe.
Mike
I found the following recipes here: http://www.wwf5.com/stuffers.com/content/recipes/sausrecp.pdf
There is quite an extensive list of recipes there. It's a company in BC Canada called Stuffers ( www.stuffers.com ).
The interesting part (I thought anyway) is that they also use Fermento. They also hold the sausage at a low temp for 8 hours and you can adjust this by another 12 hours to add additional "tang".
Mike
Dried Sausage Sticks (Slim Jims)
Ingredients for 10 lbs.
2 Level tsp. Prague Powder No. 1
4 tbsp. paprika
6 tbsp. ground mustard
1 tsp. ground black pepper
1 tsp. ground white pepper
1 tsp. ground celery
1 tbsp. mace
1 tsp. granulated garlic
3 1/2 ozs. salt
1 1/2 ozs. powdered dextrose
6 ozs. Fermento
10 lbs. of beef or other lean meat
Dried sausage sticks are made using a fairly lean type of meat.You may use any kind of cow, bull or steer
meat.The ratio is about 80% lean and 20% fat. Beef chuck is excellent meat for this sausage.
Meat is chilled at 30-32ºF. so that it will not smear when being ground through a 1/8" grinder plate. It
is then mixed very well for about 2 minutes and stuffed into 22-24mm sheep casings. Desired length is 6"-
9". Meat is then placed in a smokehouse at 98-110ºF., with cold smoke applied for about 8 hours. If you
desire more tang you may hold this temperature for 12 more hours. Smokehouse temperatures are then
raised until internal temperature reaches 145ºF. Remove from smoker and place in dry room at 50-55ºF.
Mike, do you have Rytek Kutas sausage making bible Great Sausage Recipes And Meat Curing? The recipe above for the slim jims is from that book. There is a wealth of info in that book about Fermento, starter cultures, etc.
Sounds like you found a perfect alternative to the brand name Fermento. I might have read something too quickly but I thought I had seen a suggestion about using dry milk in place of Fermento. Dry milk, soy protein concentrate and other binders/moisture retainers certainly have their place in sausage making but none alone are a substitute for a Fermento type product.
Sounds like you have been doing your homework. It's always a learning process, no matter how much sausage we've made. Just don't let all the unknown keep you from jumping in. Most of the time, experience is the best teacher. Keep us posted.
-Brian
Hi Brian
I do have the Great Sausage Recipes And Meat Curing book. I can definitely see why everybody praises this book for sure. Tons of information! I couldn't agree more with you about the learning process as well. He11! That's what we are all here for! :D ;)
I'll keep ya posted for sure.
Mike