I've used the 3-2-1 method a couple of times now for both baby backs and spare ribs. The results have been good and I don't see anything wrong with cookin ribs this way. But I thought I remembered reading some posts a while back about smoking ribs "naked", you know without the foil. I want to hear if any of you smoke your ribs in the bradley without foil. Seems to me it stays pretty moist in there. I mean you could consider the Bradley a big steam box if you had a pan of liquid in there, right? Sure, it might take a little longer to cook that way but considering I've had butts and briskets in there for 20+ hours and they come out moist as can be. So I'd thing ribs could live in there without foil for 5 - 7 hours, no?
I'd love to hear from anyone who has some experience doin ribs without foil in the bradley. Thanks.
Iceman has a great write up in the recipe site where he doesn't foil them.
Look for "Competition Ribs"
He does use a spritz bottle.
I've done them this way with apple juice and EVOO as a spritz.
But everytime (unless you have dual elements) you open the door for spritzing
you are adding 30 minutes to the cooking time.
I usually do them with a mustard coating and rub. Sometimes I'll sprits if need be.
Funny you should post this, I've used the foil the 3 times I've done ribs and they were great. But, I did get a braised taste, slight as it was I could taste it. I'm doing some St Louis ribs tomorrow and I had decided on leaving them in for 5-7 hrs or untill tender finishing them with BBQ sauce on my grill until the sauce was set real well (low heat) and then FTC for an hour. Don't know if it'll make a dfference but what the heck any reason to smoke is a good reason.
Take a peek at this Max.
http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?449-Competition-Ribs
And here is where I did some with that method.
The rub was a little too sweet for me, but the idea of no foil worked.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=15466.0
I never foil my ribs. I always leave them uncovered in my OBS. They are always very moist. It takes 6 hours or so when I cook spareribs. The baby back ribs take just about as long, maybe just a bit less time. The link below is a thread wherein I showed pics of my spareribs, and I think one of the pics is clear enough to show the moisture. I use Grub Rub and don't even sauce the ribs on the smoker. (I have sauce on the table when I eat them though.)
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=15669.0
I've done 3-2-1 and it works. I've also done no foil and it works.
I am an expert competition cooker - I watch it on TV ;D I've never seen any foil in there.
I confess, I cannot say I have never used foil on ribs. Never in the DBS, never in a stickburner, but once on the Traeger. First BBR's ribs on the Traeger. They were very meaty, and halfway I did not think they were going to be done in time - and I had a meeting, so upped the temp, but got scared and put some foil on them - not sealed. Won't do it again. Tasted ok, but bark was mushy on top and non existant on the bottom. Reminded me of shiny restaurant ribs. I do sauce my office ribs at times - my coworkers seem to like them that way - they are Middle Tennesseans after all! All the other times I do ribs, dry rub and with a mop most often. Sometimes in DBS, I won't mop. 4 to 5 hours for BBR's depending on how meaty they are and whether I mop or not.
I have never used foil on ribs. If I add sauce during the cook I will transfer to the grill to take some of the moisture out of the sauce and to lightly sear. I spritz when needed in the smoker.
As you see, I am a noob, but have run 6 sets of baby backs through my OBS - 5 without foil, and 1 via 3-2-1. I both spritzed and not with apple juice. FTC for at least 1 hour following cooking, sometimes 3, depending on when dinner was.
Each of the non-foil runs were somewhat dry for my taste (although company never complained, and there were never left-overs), and the foiled set was much moister and came cleanly off the bone. I plan to keep with the 3-2-1 method, for whatever its worth...
Ok, looks like not using foil is just as common as 3-2-1 method. I think I'll give it a try this time around.
OK
Here is my two cents worth
I have had my DBS since last June
I can almost guarantee that every weekend there has been baby backs in the DBS
I used to foil
Then one day I let them go the whole way: no foil, no spritz, no nothing
I have been cooking them that way aever since
We love it
I don't use foil either.
I only smoke spare ribs, and I set the temp to 230.
I cut the slab in 1/2 to fit better. I'll take the small end out first since its thinner and gets done quicker. They're done when they are tender and the meat pulls back from the rib tips. And if the Thermopen says 190ish in the thick part above the ribs, They're done too.
Get smokin
drano
While foiling is a pain, I agree that they come off the bone much cleaner than if not foiled. When they're wrapped in foil they're being "steamed" which helps break down the connective tissues while keeping them moist. I also think a large part of the quality of the finished product depends on the quality of the ribs themselves. When I buy the 3 rack pack from Sam's, I always try to find the largest package with the most marbling. The larger racks are more forgiving than the skimpy racks.
I don't foil either. I know it can work ok if not foiled very long -- but you're definitely steaming them, and that can ruin ribs.
That said, dried out ribs are ruined too... So I spritz.
A foil "water pan" can help too - filled w/mix of apple juice, some cider vinegar, beer, or whatever... toss in some lemons/limes for fun.
IMHO... The trick to GREAT ribs is maintaining a decent steady moisture content.
There's a VERY HAPPY MEDIUM between dried out ribs and steamed ribs.
There's definitely a SWEET SPOT.
Awrighten.
We've got PID's to control our temps, now all we need is some type of auto spritzer device to apply moisture at given intervals.
What am I saying? I've got to have SOMETHING to do!
Quote from: DarqMan on June 22, 2010, 08:19:03 PM
We've got PID's to control our temps, now all we need is some type of auto spritzer device to apply moisture at given intervals.
What am I saying? I've got to have SOMETHING to do!
I'm suddenly
reminded of the last
lucid words my recently departed 104-year-old Grandmother said to me...
"WELL, GIT BIZZY!"
(and put me on your BETA-TESTER list!)
Quote from: hal4uk on June 22, 2010, 08:24:46 PM
I'm suddenly reminded of the last lucid words my recently departed 104-year-old Grandmother said to me...
"WELL, GIT BIZZY!"
(and put me on your BETA-TESTER list!)
Actually, it's not THAT bad of an idea.... reminds me of walking down the produce isle at the grocery and the sprayers coming on.
Quote from: DarqMan on June 22, 2010, 08:30:30 PM
Actually, it's not THAT bad of an idea....
Not BAD?
Heck, it's
pure genius!
Let's get back to basics here, Find the style you like and dial it in with your cook times, ect. The Rub or sauce you like and stick with it! Some of it is regional and some is personal taste. There is no exact formula for perfect ribs. Remember, "no bad cooks". Just making progress to perfect. My perfect ribs may not be yours. Just a rant, no offense meant towards anyone.
I have lived in several parts of the country and have been amazed about the diff in bbq ribs. In the bay area the most popular place par boils ribs so they can be sucked off the bone in one swipe. Yuk.
Another example: I love the Northern Carolina style mustard based sauces, most out here hate it. If I cook for a crowd sauces are offered on request.
Probably comes with age I guess, and an intolerance of someone telling you how to do it. Just do it until you have found YOUR WAY!
I smoke naked.
Here is a thread which explains the science behind both methods.
I Prefer to Smoke Totally Naked - A Brisket and Ribs Manifesto
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=12455.0
Good luck and slow smoking,
Pachanga
Just posting a quick report on my first time doing ribs without foil. Results were fantastic! I did have a tray of water on the bottom rack I put in after I was done running pucks through. I chose only 2h 20min of apple wood, as I don't like too much smoke on ribs. The last hour I spritzed with a cran-raspberry/veg oil mixture a few times. I was concerned when I pulled them out because the meat did not pull that far back from the bone, some areas maybe 1/8" and other areas none at all. But they were in there for 7 hours so I figured they must be done. IT was 180* when I took them out, and they were fall off the bone, but not mushy at all. Very juicy and the raspberry flavor combined with the brown-sugar rub gave them this nice glossy candy coating on top. Just served with home made BBQ sauce on the side. Sorry, no pics.
My question is, and I hope this doesn't sound condescending, if another water tray is added, aren't you turning the smoker into a steam box and pretty much doing the same thing you'd do if you'd foiled them in the first place? When I do BB ribs they don't really pull back from the bone very far. I'm assuming it's due to them being leaner than the bottom cuts.
Posted by: Uncle PigfatQuotearen't you turning the smoker into a steam box and pretty much doing the same thing
Yes. Read my original post where I say exactly that:
"Max" on: June 21, 2010, 09:03:51 pm »QuoteSeems to me it stays pretty moist in there. I mean you could consider the Bradley a big steam box if you had a pan of liquid in there, right?
So I'm not arguing against the use of steam, I'm arguing against the extra effort involved in applying foil. Plus I feel it is much easier to regulate the temperature inside the Bradley than it is to regulate the temperature inside a closed packet of foil.
Foil and high humidity in the cabinet are both headed in the same direction and, in some ways, try to accomplish the same thing. But the foil is much more extreme. Both function to increase the humidity in the cooking environment and reduce moisture loss from what is being cooked. But the open cabinet cannot achieve the humidity of a closed foil or sealed pan covering. Because the humidity is so high within a foil enclosure or closed pan, heat transfer is much greater (hence it gets done quicker.)
I should probably preface what is about to follow with a Caney-like pontification alert and warning –read at your own risk!
Whether to foil or not has driven me crazy for years. When I use foil I get moist, tender ribs (and brisket), but I do not like the braised texture that results and the flavor is altered also. When I don't use foil and I try for the low & slow at 225 °F or less, I often get a meat that is too dry. Especially with ribs, which are thin, I always feel like I am on the edge of making jerky.
Here's a question to ponder - how do the old, famous Texas brisket belt restaurants produce some of the best, most tender, moist brisket in as little as five hours? Consider Louie Mueller's - start the fires at 4:30 am and by 11 am has what is widely considered to be some of the best Texas smoked brisket ready to serve? It isn't low and slow and they don't use foil, pans or any water pans. After a lot of study and questions to "experts" and knowledgeable folks what I have come to appreciate is that the real enemy is high radiant heat transfer - the kind of heat transfer that makes infrared grills and broilers work so well. Those old long brick and mortar/ceramic brisket belt pits have very little radiant heat transfer and they cook at surprisingly high temps with convection (moving hot air) as the highly dominant mode of heat transfer. Many of the top barbecue champs understand this (although they don't talk much about it) and have devised a number of methods to prevent radiant heat transfer to favor first convection and to some extent conduction.
Consider the following - at one extreme you have real low and real slow and you make jerky, at the other extreme you use a broiler and get tough dry (and maybe burned) ribs. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle and it can be done without increasing humidity via steam and the likes. However you cook your ribs (or brisket) if you can figure out how to block radiant heat transfer you can go a long way to retaining moisture without needing to steam the product. It's not just cooking temp, it's also time. You can cook at higher temps via convection because heat transfer is very poor via just hot, moving air (think about trying to cook with a high powered hair drier). One technique often advocated for doing brisket in a Bradley smoker is to use the higher racks. With a PID we are trying to get the exact same air temp whether on a high rack or a low rack, the difference is the distance to the element and the nearby very hot surfaces that are sources of radiant heat. Other than enclosing in foil or boating, a pan of water on a shelf below what is being cooked does a good job of blocking radiant heat transfer (some of the MAK guys have been trying a grate on top of a liquid filled roasting pan). If you can block the radiant heat you can jack up the air temp and get some impressive results. What I have been conjuring up are ways to accomplish that with what I have to cook with. One I want to try is oven finishing in my convention oven in the range of 275 -300 °F with a large pizza stone on the lowest rack (it's bigger than the heating element on the bottom) and a sheet pan filled with water on top of that. Because of the fan and the oven's venting, there will be only a modest humidity increase, probably lower than the Bradley. But I suspect radiant heat transfer will be about zilch (on a relative basis) while convection will be great.
Also how they get their brisket and clods done in just a few hours!
Excellent BLSH!