6 hours to smoke a 1.3lb boneless turkey breast? what's wrong?
This was my 4th smoke and my 4th disappointment with my OBS. A few weeks ago, I bought a OBS and the Auber dual probe PID. I was really looking forward to easy smoking...
Disappointment 1, first smoke, my brand new Auber did not work, no power to the smoke generator outlet, sent it back for repairs.
Disappointment 2, second smoke, got my auber back, tried to smoke some meat sticks, the power outlet to the bradley tower, quit 4 hours in. Asked Auber to just send me a whole new PID, they did. gave up after 12 hours, never could get the IT up to 150deg.
Disappointment 3, third smoke, tried salmon, took 10 hours to get the IT up to 160deg but only after I cranked the temp up to 225 for 4 hours.
Disappointment 4, fourth smoke, To give the OBS and the Auber the benefit of the doubt, I decided to just go simple test it. I set the Auber temp to 225deg and tried to smoke a 1.3lb boneless turkey breast, it took 6hrs to reach 170deg, last 2hrs at 250deg, at least the PID seemed to work this time... The element glows red and it seems to reach temp quick enough, preheat to 250 took 30min. Three thermometers all show the same temp, I feel like I'm wasting my time with the OBS and the Auber.
I've verified the temp probes in ice and boiling water, I added oven thermometers to the racks, they agree with the temps. Why does it take 6 hours to cook one pound of meat? I don't think the OBS is going to work for me, any one have any ideas? Should I quit and build one with some BTUs?
You need to call Bradley.
They need to help you find out what the problem is.
Have you contacted them at all?
I called them to get a replacement part, the plastic piece below the door was cracked by the third smoke, started to question the quality but everyone on this forum loves them, that's why I choose a Bradly. I'll call them to see what they say.
How do you have the vent set. For poultry you should have it wide open. Something is not adding up. Don't give up on the OBS we will help you figure it out. I have the same one and it works great. Although I have never done a turkey breast so I can't say how long it would take but 6 hrs seems too long. I have done stuffed pork loins and they only take 2 hrs and I would say that should be similar to a 1.3 lb breast. But the only thing I can think is you have the vent closed or only partly open and it should be wide open for all chicken and turkey. Because poultry has so much moisture in it you need to let it out of the cabinet. The moist air acts as heat quencher and causes the smoker to stay cool. You have to let that moisture out.
Thank you for the offer to help, my vent was 1/2 open, the outside was dried out by the time I pulled it out. The inside was moist but under cooked.
here are the posts for my other issues.
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=17281.0
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=17110.0
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=17282.0
Sounds to me like the heating element is not working at all. Is that possible?
He stated in a previous post he has had temps up to 225.
You should try opening the vent wide open. My first smoke I kept the vent closed cause that was how my dad did our old plywood smokers. I had water pouring out all over and the temp wouldn't go past 120f.
Sorry, my bad.
Sounds like Q may have a possible answer.
Quote from: KyNola on August 21, 2010, 08:37:06 PM
Sorry, my bad.
Sounds like Q may have a possible answer.
I cheated, I went back and read his post! ;D
Boz, I sent you a PM with my teley #.
The offer stands if you want to see if I can help.
There is no logical explanation why it would take 6 hours to cook a 1.3 pound turkey breast at 225°F to an internal temperature of 170°F. Even moving the meat directly from the refrigerator to the smoker and not preheating the cabinet, it should not take that long. This one is a mystery to me.
I agree, this is not logical, the IT on the breast was 65deg when I started. The only thing I can think of after sleeping on it was opening the door too many times checking the oven thermometer on the rack. I opened it at least once an hour but the temp recovered in 5min each time. Today, I'm going to call Classicrockgriller and try three chicken legs with no PID and then three legs with the PID, (and never open the door during the whole smoke, and vent wide open.)
I also forgot to note that the turkey breast was on the top rack and the PID probe was 1/2" below back wall mount. Would it take longer on the top rack with only one item in the smoker?
Hello TheBoz, you took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to post exactly that last night but decided to wait until this morning to do so. I have an employee that purchased one of the OBS last year and one day he came to working saying how I talked him into buying a piece of junk. He was having the same problem. He was use to a grill. He was checking in on it all the time. The cabinet temp had no problem reaching temp but as soon as it did he would open the door.
There is an old saying --- "If your looking your not cooking!"
Ok there is another saying that goes "everytime you open the door it adds a half an hour to your cooking time". But once an hour is not that bad. Sometimes you need to rotate and switch the racks that often.
I would put your breast on the second or third rack up from the bottom.
The 3 legs test is a good start as they should not take more than say 3 hrs. 1 hr. smoke and no more than 2 hrs to cook. Of course you may want to grill them for 10 min.s after to crisp the skin. The bradley leaves the skin kind of rubbery so a little high heat on the barb-b always helps.
Here are my results from today's test. I bought a 4.5lb pack of chicken thighs, 10 total. Since I'm making dog food, I did not smoke brine or season, I just sat out for 30min while I preheated.
9:00am start preheat, Dual probe Auber set to 225.
9:30 PID temp 220, Door Thermometer ?, Meat IT 55
10:10 PID 225, Door 190, Meat 118
10:35 PID 225, Door 195, Meat 138
11:08 PID 225, Door 195, Meat 154
11:38 PID 225, Door 195, Meat 158
12:06 PID 225, Door 195, Meat 163
12:57 PID 225, Door 196, Meat 170
1:30 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 174
2:00 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 177
2:20 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 180
total ~5 hours for 2lbs of chicken thighs (only 5 thighs), it should not have taken more than 2 hours. I never opened the door and the vent was 100% open. My theory at this point is the Auber temp is wrong, I have verified with ice and boiling water but there is no other explanation. The auber and the door probes were at the same level, but were 30deg apart, I'm sure if I used the door thermometer and added 30deg to the auber it would have cooked in half the time.
Next experiment? Take the Auber probe off the back wall and hang it next to the door thermometer.
Any other ideas?
I don't think the pid was wrong, but Get rid of pid. don't really know how that will help, but at least you'll know if that is what is wrong.
Boz
I've been watching your tests and I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.
Maybe I'm totally out to lunch here but based on your times and temps in your lasted test.... I see your thighs were done in just over 3 hours. At least to the temps I would take them to (165). When cooking at a temp of 225 the IT takes a while to reach, it's low & slow. For thights you could run the temp up abit higher which would shorten times slightly.
The door thermometers on the OBS are notorious for being influenced by the vapour temps the meat is giving off because of their close proximity to the meat and also because the probe is usually above the meat.
In this test I didn't see where you had the meat placed. I usually use the 2nd rack up or 3rd rack up when smoking a small load. You want to have the PID cabinet probe just below the rack with the meat. I also prefer to have the probe more towards the front or centre but not at the back. With this setup your OBS door thermometer will be influenced by the cooling effect of the moisture the meat is giving off and will read lower. As the meat temp comes up the door thermometer variance will not be as great.
I have my Bradley modified with a 2nd element and a circulation fan but I still typically smoke at 225 and I control the temp from below the meat load. The additional element does help with temp recovery and large loads but the point I'm trying to make is I'm still cooking at the same temp and low & slow does take some time. Sure, you could cook it quicker but it wouldn't be low & slow.
I also do a lot of sausage and it's not uncommon for it to take 8 to 10 hours because of the low temps required.
Even if you used your oven set at 225 and cooked thighs I'm sure it would take close to the same time frame.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
PS
I bet you have a happy dog! :D
Quote from: TheBoz on August 22, 2010, 11:49:24 AM
Since I'm making dog food, I did not smoke brine or season...
Hey, you just broke your dog's heart. All along he thought he was a full member of the family!
The meat was on the top rack, I just tested the door thermo and the aubers in boiling water, the door was 5deg below the aubers, for what it's worth. I too have a hard time beleiviing the Auber was just wrong, maybe the back wall mount is the problem, I took it out and will try hanging it in the front on my next $2 batch of thighs... then post back. Staying with the top rack this time so I'm only changing one variable.
If you have your probe mounted to the rear of the cabinet I would think that you are getting a hotter reading toward the rear than you will at the front because the element is in the rear. I put my PID probe about 4 to 5 inches in from the door and just below the meat.
Quote from: TheBoz on August 22, 2010, 11:49:24 AM
Next experiment? Take the Auber probe off the back wall and hang it next to the door thermometer.
As soon as I read this the light bulb went on you have it mounted to the back wall which is one of the hottest places in the cabinet. I know some have also mounted theres but I beleive you shouldn't. The probe gets hot and then the Auber shuts down the heat so you will be cooking at way less temp then you really want. On your next experiment put 2 paper clips attached to the rack and slid the temp probe into it so you will end up with the probe about 1 to 1 1/2 inches below the meat. Then see how it goes. Just a side note on my last smoke of an 8 lb pork butt I had my probe from the PID level with the door thermo and they read even threw the whole smoke/cook.
Just had a nice phone chat with TheBoz. We are adjusting his food placement and probe locations.
Hopefully this will get him on the right track.
Alright Boz and CRG!
You guys will get that baby dialed in yet! ;)
Mike
This is another fine example how the pros help out those that need assistance. Whoot!
This thread is an example of a long hard struggle with as many variables as there is advice! I have no doubt a solution will be found because of the experience within this group and their willingness to share it.
Boz don't give up on the OBS just yet!
Update: second chicken thigh experiment. The only thing I changed was the location of the PID probe, I removed it from the back wall, plugged the whole, and stuck it through one of the holes in my frogmat at the front of the rack. Everything else was the same 5 thighs top rack, vent 100% open, Auber set to 225.
45min preheat to 225
4:30 PID 225, Door 215, Meat 70
5:00 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 116
5:45 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 142
6:30 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 150
7:00 PID 225, Door 200, Meat 156
7:25 PID 225, Door 201, Meat 162
8:30 PID 225, Door 202, Meat 177
It was finished the next time I came back. Comparing the two smokes one with the PID probe in the back wall and one with it suspended off the front of the rack. They were almost identical. The probe location did not change cook time. This says the probe location is not the issue in this situation. I agree with everyone that says get off the top rack for a faster cook but with 2lbs of meat on one rack it shouldn't matter that much if people can fully load all four rack at one time.
What's next? I don't know. More beer to ponder my $500 investment choice...
Here's my ideas
1) 5 more thighs on the third or fourth rack down? Could this really knock 2hrs off my cook time? Or
2) just add 25-50deg to my PID temp. Anyone think of a better test?
My goal is to get to the 1-1.5 hrs per lb on small loads (<4lbs) and 2-2.5hrs per lb for big loads.
Boz,
With all due respect to you, in the second experiment your thighs were done in 3 hours just like they were in the first experiment. 165 IT. Mr. Walleye pointed it out to you after your first experiment. If you prefer your foods well done it will take longer. Not being critical of your preferences. Just a difference in tastes but your Bradley is functioning normally in my humble opinion.
Thank you for pointing that out, I missed the first post on the 165deg for poultry. I came up with the 180deg from my analog meat thermometer. It has different temps for beef, pork, veal, and poultry is at 180.
That's good news to me!!!
Thank You both! So, I guess I was beaten by an old analog meat thermometer....
The TOP SHELF is NOT a place to COOK chicken.
Hello again CRG, I understood that from our conversations, I just wanted to change one variable at a time to determine the root cause of my problem. I won't be using the top shelf for light chicken loads in the future.
Yeah Like the second from the bottom for most things.
Boz if I may try to help, I have the exact same setup as you...OBS with Auber PID. There's one very important data point from your tables, and that's how the door temp is upwards of 30 degrees off from the Auber's temp sensor. You said it yourself:
"The auber and the door probes were at the same level, but were 30deg apart, I'm sure if I used the door thermometer and added 30deg to the auber it would have cooked in half the time."
I've been smoking stuff now for a good year, and have many many thanks to people like CRG and others for all of the advice. What I have found is that people without the PID may rely on the door temp, which I'm now 100% positive is not accurate worth a hoot. However, in relying on that door temp, the heat that the meat is actually seeing is in fact higher than meets the eye. The only logical conclusion is, that is why the 'expected' smoke times may seem like they should be shorter.
As an example that directly matches yours, I like to do bacon wrapped chicken breasts, but I don't follow any specific formula. I actually don't use the auber (more on that in a minute), and I crank the heating element all the way to 11. The "door" temp never gets above 235-250. What's the actual heat inside? I don't really care. But the meat is up to a good 185-190 within 3.5-4 hours...and I'm talking 3-4 pounds of chicken. Now, for me, doing poultry is a specific case where I DON'T use my auber. I like long smokes, but to me, poultry is instant gratification.
Based on my learning with the Auber, it is SUPER accurate. If I were to do a couple pounds of chicken at 225 controlled by the auber, I know for a fact I'd be LUCKY to finish within 5 hours. So basically what I'm saying is that I don't think there's anything wrong with your setup.
Back to the auber. I abso-freakin-lutely love it for long overnight smokes. When I do brisket or pulled pork, I want to ensure that my temperature stays below boiling. I can go to bed knowing that IF I need to get up, it would be to fill the pan for the smoldered pucks. I usually smoke 205-210, and I'll let it run 18-24 hours (usually 4-6 hours of smoke) for a good 7-10 pound pork shoulder; and I'll let it run 10-16 hours for a 6-8 pound brisket. I would not have the luxury of knowing my temp was exactly where I wanted it unless I had the auber.
Ramble ramble...ok I'll finish up. Conclusion here? (1) I think your setup is working as it should, based on my same-exact setup. (2) Crank up the heat! If you brine your chicken or turkey, it will be amazingly moist, even if you smoke with the the dial at 11 (but these go to 11!). (3) The auber kicks some major butt, especially for long smokes, and the temp gauge is dead on.
I'm with Mat_M. I have the OBS and Auber dual probe PID too. It does take a good while to cook meat at 225. The numbers you posted don't look bad to me. When I cook chicken parts, I do it with the Auber set to 260 and the chicken on the bottom rack. After I put the meat in, the OBS never gets back up to 260, but it keeps rising, and the process usually takes 2 hours or so for a full rack of wings, or longer if I'm doing a lot of chicken. Of course, I finish my chicken on the grill to get the crispness in the skin.
Oh, and here's a link for Mat's OBS that goes up to 11:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/spinal_tap_amps.png
EZ, that's funny!
Thanks guys for validating my data. It's good to hear my setup is correct and I just need to learn how to use it. Sounds like a learning opportunity! This weekend I'm trying my first long smoke. I'm throwing in a butt for an over night smoke. I'm looking forward to the Auber doing the work while I sleep. :-) I still shake my head at chasing the 180 IT as recommended by my old thermometer... Live and Learn (and smoke until you get it right!!!)
Hey Boz glad you are going to stick with the bradley and with us too. You will get it figured out and come to love the little guy. Like we said, any question just ask. There is a lot of passionate folks on here and we love what we are doing and only wish you success with this.
I have a successful Pork Butt over the weekend!!! 4lb in 9hrs! Everything worked great and tasted better. I'll be posting some pics to my other thread.
Phil
Way to go Boz! Sounds like you just topped the learning curve. Excellent buddy.
Very nice! Once you get used to the nuances of the little Bradley, you'll love it...
Here are some pictures of my first successful smoke!!! and my first Pork Butt.
Smoking!
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc408/PBoswell/PorkButt3.jpg)
Done!
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc408/PBoswell/PorkButt4.jpg)
Pulled!
(http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc408/PBoswell/PorkButt6.jpg)
good!
Way to go Boz! Looks killer to me.
Yummmmmy
Awesome Job!