OK cheese experts....
Smoked 5 different cheeses Nov 20th, pre-cut into smaller pieces, 1 hour of smoke, never got above 77^ if I remember correctly. Smelled terrible afterwards which is what I expected from comments on the forum. Was vacuum packed and has sat in the fridge since.
Opened up 2 packages over the weekend (a few days shy of 1 month as strongly recommended), mild gouda and creamy havarti. Both had an aftertaste that reminded me of the original smell (you all have mentioned burnt ashtray and I'll agree on that one!). It wasn't grossly overpowering but it was a taste that should not have been there and isn't there with retail cheese.
So, any ideas? Does it simply need more time? How much? I've read some eat the cheese after 2 wks so I figured I was safe at 4 wks. These cheeses were to be used several times blanketing the 25th as appies ect with holiday meals. Don't think I'd serve them tasting as they do now.
More time. I wait 6 weeks minimum and longer is always better. Just cut up some 7 month pepper jack and it is awesome!
what wood did you use?
I use hickory or apple and only for 3-4 hours. After the smoke i wipe down with cheese cloth and let sit at room temp for a few hours before i seal.
Just opened a vac bag of muenster that i smoked last Dec. It went to the party on friday and it was gone.
I was busy smokin some blazin pistachios on the weekend and while having a couple of pops ;) I decided to smoke some cheese right after being as I had everything set up. The cheese I smoked was an old cheddar and it definitely picked up the blazin nut flavors. It seems like it will be a good marriage but only time will tell. This was unintentional and not realized until after the cook was finished.
Is it a possibility that something similar could have contributed to your cheese experience?
The longer you wait the better!
I don't remember the wood I used, I usually write everything down but it isn't where it should be (I know I wrote it down, obviously not sure where though! :() My guess is it would have been apple or alder. Others I currently have are Crown Royal and Maple.
I don't think I smoked anything earlier in the day but I don't clean out the smoker after each use. No other smoke (salmon, pork, jerky, chicken) has ever given the same after taste so I don't know if contamination is an issue.
The cheese sat on the counter and I don't think it was still warm before vacuum packing. I did a light wipe with paper towel to remove a big of oil/grease.
Maybe I just need to wait more. I will be opening up some to try again this weekend (4 1/2 wks) but I don't know if 1 wk will really make a difference.
Thanks for the ideas or any others you might have.
I would doubt it is a flavor picked up from the smoker...the gouda should have been ok...I can understand the havarti as that is a softer cheese...may need longer to rest...did you taste it cold or room temp when you first tried it? I really makes a difference...especially with the softer cheese...I don't know...I hardly ever let cheese go more then a month before I try it (as I experiment with woods) I am usually a milder wood kinda gal...apple...oak...I only do hickory with a stong cheese like sharp chedder or pepperjack or gouda as well...
Anyway...it will be fine...most people are amazed at the fact that you did it yourself anyway!!
I think you just need more time. If after say 3 months you still have an ashtray taste, slice a very thin layer off of each side, re-vac and wait another 1 to 3 months. This should take care of the problem. Even if it does not resolve the issue, you can still use the cheese in other foods. Next time try less smoke, make sure it sets out for awhile, and wipe off any oil that rises to the surface.
The 1st time I did cheese i didn't like the taste on several of the cheeses after a month. After sitting a couple weeks longer, they were much better. I have a some Havarti that's been sitting for a month. I was planning on letting it sit longer, but I might pull it and try it out of couriousity.
I've had exactly the same issue, I'm starting to believe it's the crappy hockey pucks as nothing I've done in the Bradley matches what I do in my vertical propane smoker using real wood chunks.
Like everyone else says..your cheese just needs more time to age. Give it at least three months..more if you can stand it. It will be worth the wait!
Quotecrappy hockey pucks
I would not call them crappy, they work really well depending on what you use them for.
But for cheese, I tend to agree it does take longer to mellow then when using wood chips. I have done hundreds of pounds of cheese and if I use another way to produce the smoke it is ready to eat in a few days. I normally tell people to wait a couple weeks but they never do. Normally the next day they say how good it is. So now I still use the Bradley tower for cheese but either use a hot plate in my cold smoke attachment or my homemade smoke daddy or my homemade amazing smoker to produce the smoke. I think its the low and slow smoldering of the pucks that can cause the ash like taste, but it will go away in time. I think if you were to take the pucks and put onto a hot hot plate you would not get the ash taste. Its just wood, the only difference is how its ignited. IMHO
I am with pens on this...I'm not a big fan of hard cheeses smoked but softer cheese..A) don't need that long B) need to rest longer because of the absorption rate of smoke C) It has nothing to do with the pucks...
My first batch I over smoked...it took a long time to get rid of the ashy taste...BUT...once you get a feel for it...it will get better...Just like any meat...same church different pew..
Chiroken did you say you smoked the cheese in bite size pieces? If so that may be part of the reason. Small pieces may take on too much smoke. Not sure but that is what I think might have happened.
Personally, I will not smoke cheese under 1.5" thick. 1" at the very minimum. Apple smoke for 1 hour max. Then I vacuum seal and let it sit in our downstairs spare fridge for a minimum of 3 months. As others mentioned, the longer the better! White cheeses work best for me. Orange cheddar is awful. My favorites in order are 1) Swiss. 2) Pepper Jack. 3) Gouda
REPO...Swiss? Really? Wow...not my favorite...I like the yellow cheeses...matter of taste I suppose...
Quote from: La Quinta on December 25, 2011, 12:14:16 AM
REPO...Swiss? Really? Wow...not my favorite...I like the yellow cheeses...matter of taste I suppose...
Yup! I have always liked Swiss cheese, and the smoke just makes it that much better. The orange cheeses just never seemed to mellow out for me like the white cheeses do. Even after 6 months it was still a bit ash tray like. Maybe I should have taken the orange out sooner than the rest. Either way.
, I like the white cheeses better on most things anyway.
Even my wife agrees. If I open a package of the Swiss or Monteray Jack, it is gone within the day.
Ok...I do like the white cheeses...but not swiss...just a matter of taste...
Well I don't know. My cheese was great after 2 weeks. I sliced a bunch for Christmas after 15 days and everyone loved it. I think people give it to much smoke. At least newbies. I only smoked mine 2 hours with Hickory as I love Hickory and seems most people do. I kept it under 90 for 2 hours of smoking and put in the bottom drawer of refrigerator. If it freezes or gets to cold it will ruin texture and taste. Some of the best cheese we could buy around her growing up. Came from a old man and women that ran a small store. Their cheese set on the counter all day year round. They would set in a cooler at night set so not to chill cheese to much. Always insisted you try a slice before buying. I normally set my cheese in basement where its 55-60.
OK, here's an update & a quick refresh: the 5 cheeses were - jalepeno monteray jack, creamy havarti, medium cheddar, mild gouda, & friulano (never heard of the last one but it came in a cool looking round so I got it too ;) ) Several have commented that perhaps it was too much smoke, but it was only 1 hour of smoke. Never reached 80 degrees. They then sat on the counter long enough to cool down and they were lightly wiped with paper towel. Then vacuum packed and in the fridge ever since.
As far as size of pieces...nothing thinner than 1" some abit thicker. Most were blocks that I cut in rectangles. The gouda was a round so the one end is thin being "pie shaped".
It is 1 1/2 wks since I first tried the cheese and it has improved. This takes it to 5 wks. It still has that aftertaste that i don't think should be there. It can't be too much smoke as some of you are doing 2 hrs while I did only 1 hr. I'm guessing that it just simply will take more time to mellow out. I'm curious how people are eating after only 2 wks when we're using the same smoker and the same pucks???
Also curious about no after taste when using a hotplate and shavings? I do plan to eventually build a plywood cold box as I've seen on a thread here (can't remember who to credit) so I wonder if that's the place to put in a hot plate for cheeses?
I made a metal cold smoke box and use a hotplate in it. Works great. And since I have a PID if I have a problem with the puck pusher I can easily switch to the hot plate setup. But now what I do when smoking cheese is by using my homemade smoke daddy to make the smoke and run it right into the Bradley. I use the PID to add heat if its too cold.
I have a cold smoke box (from Bradley) and I have to wait until it's around 40 degrees outside but the smoker gets to 50ish degrees after 2 hours of smoke...vac seal the cheese for 45-60 days...never tastes too smokey...(and I am not an overly smoke cheese fan)
I am not sure what the shavings are? Maybe I didn't fully read your original post?
Quote from: La Quinta on January 03, 2012, 01:01:00 AM
I am not sure what the shavings are? Maybe I didn't fully read your original post?
I am referring to wood shavings (or wood chips) you put on the hot plate. Are you still using the Bradley pucks on a hot plate? I just assumed everyone used chips on a hotplate.
Yeah I use the pucks...but in the offset box...depending on the cheeses I go with hickory or pecan...but oak is nice...lots of times I mix too...Did a bunch 2 weeks ago...have to wait until we cool down again to do more...
I would love to hear about the Havarti taste...never tried that...
I've been out of touch for a long time -- computer issues ---- but I can add my experience to those you have already read. My first smoked cheese on the Bradley was the same thing. I did 2 hours of cold smoke with Hickory, using marbled cheese, med and mild cheddar. My second smoke was the same cheeses with hickory and pecan for 2 hours.
After 2 months it still tasted ashey. It was much better after 3 months and improved with age.
I was thinking that next time I would try 1 hour of smoke and see if that improved things - but you have already done this.
I read somewhere else on this forum that it may be the pucks. I recall smoking some cheddar on my Little Chief years ago and the wife and I ate it the same day. It was my first attempt at smoked cheese and it turned out great. Maybe like others have said --- the cheese is better if smoked with wood chips on a hot plate. I might give that a try next time.
Wouldn't that be more work? Or does the generator push the embers off? I never tried it so pardon my ignorance? Wouldn't the chips burn faster than the pucks? You would have to keep reloading chips?
I haven't done it yet but think it would involve a cold smoke adapter with a hot plate and pan of wood chips in the adapter.
Or I could borrow the Big Chief smoker I gave my son. :)
Well sliced the last of the cheese today. It was about 3 lbs i believe and gone in 1 hour. My Kids and grand kids finished it off with woos and awws. 4 1/2 weeks old and tasted great!
JZ...borrow the Big Chief!!! ;D
At Christmas when the family was visiting I opened a block of Med Cheddar that was smoked for 2 hrs with Hickory and packaged on Nov 2, 2011. Everyone loved it but I thought it was a bit too smokey and still had a bit of the ashy taste. I cut off a chunk and trimmed off the exterior which was discolored from the smoke and the taste difference between the outside skin and the inside was quite pronounced. The cheese inside the block was much milder and very tasty. No ashy taste at all.
Might be worth trying.
As I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread, slicing a thin layer off does work. It is how I salvaged my first batch.
Wildcat ---- your earlier post is the reason I tried slicing off the outside of the cheese and thanks for the suggestion. It worked very well.
Its now been 2 1/2 months since I packaged the cheese and it is awesome ---- inside and out.
I'm not convinced by these pucks, they have made most things taste inferior to using real wood chunks. Simple as that. I've just opened vac sealed cheese from the end of August and it's not as good as the mass produced smoked cheese you can buy at Safeway, chemicals and all.
If I'm going to smoke anything expensive I won't take a chance on using the Bradley right now.
Now, people will say I'm doing something wrong or I'm just wrong and I can live with that. The thing is I haven't done anything different to what others have done for cheese especially since I hadn't cold smoked before getting the brad. I followed 'tried and tested' steps from this site.
Not impressed at all, that said I'm using it right now to smoke jalapenos to make chipolte spice which has come out fine previously. I like that I can do a very long smoke and just leave it.
Are there other suppliers of these pucks? Is there a shelf life to them? I guess it could be possible that I've simply got a bad batch so maybe I'll try buying another pack in the smallest unit size and go from there.
Some of the wood varieties can be harsh as compared to others. Perhaps it is the wood your using and/or possibly you are applying too much smoke for your taste. I generally like a strong smoke flavor where others prefer a milder flavor. Try apple with less time and see if you like it better.
With hard wood smoking, one has to devote more work into it and it requires closer monitoring than the Bradley. I personally like both hard wood and the Bradley. I prefer some things cooked with hard wood and/or charcoal (such as steaks) and other things I prefer the Bradley (such as pulled pork).
I used Alder I think, possible it was apple. Neither I would call a harsh wood, agree? And smoked for 1 hr. After 2 1/2 months still has that aftertaste that commercial cheese doesn't have. It has improved quite abit I will admit. Can't say I'm happy with it and cutting off the outer layer may be good to do for cheese already smoked, can "save" a batch so to speak, but wouldn't never want to waste so much cheese by choice. Wondering if shavings on a hot plate in a cold smoke box attached to the Bradley is the way. I just can't figure out why the ashtray taste occurs...it doesn't make sense. I hear everyone saying give it time but it seems like such a compromise and shouldn't have to happen in the 1st place.
Well if you goggle cheese tastes like an ash tray you'll find all smokers of all types do it. Has nothing to do with pucks or bradley. When I cold smoke I want heat at 80a or lower. If not the cheese gives off oils that really taste bad. Plus you wont get real smoke to taste like the chemical kinds on cheese you buy. I silent want to. Try less smoke time with milder wood, lower temps. Maybe a since with clean water and dry as soon as you pull it.
I didn't know all types of smokers give the ashtray taste. I thought I have read here that some use wood shavings on a hot plate and don't have it. I don't have a PID but the bradley temp didn't get above 77^, alder for 1 hr. Don't know how I can do less than that. There was some oil residue on the cheese but not significant amounts. I did dab it with paper towel before vacuum packing it.
I'm stumped why some with say they eat it after 1-2 weeks and it tastes great? There is no mistaking that ashtray taste!
I am also curious why cheese takes on this ashtray taste when nothing else I've smoked does. Anyone else smoked something that has also had this flavour?
I'll be trying some this weekend again, haven't had any in 2 wks. Went in the smoker Nov 20th so that makes it 2 1/2 months in the fridge now.
Well been doing a lot of reading of different sources and goggling. Seems it happens with real wood and pellets and about every thing. If you goggle it you'll see. I read a tech form that claims when cheese starts fatting out it's a oil that contains Some pretty harsh chemicals. So heat is a big issue. they recommend no more then 80 degrees or less. As far as some liking it sooner then others I think it's just different tastes. n Or different strokes for different folks. Like toast and other things ,some like it lightly toasted and some just plain burns it and enjoys that taste. I have read some have had good results with smoking with apple or cherry for just 20-40 minutes. Some swear 4-6 hours are best. So I would say the lowest heat you can do would be better for you. And maybe 20-40 minutes of smoke. Not positive but give it a try and see if its better. And if I had a little oil I'd wash or soke it in clear water for a while. Just like removing ssome salt it may help with removing oil and strong taste. Will try here also and let you know what happens.
OK, all good info. At some point I will try more smoked cheese. Got quite abit of it sitting in the fridge right now! I'll most likely build a cold smoke box to hold the generator, should be a quick project, to keep the temp as low as possible. Could care less about the amount of colour if it helps cut down on the bad taste. Wish I had a PID but it just doesn't seem in the budget right now. 40 min or 4 hrs of smoke? Now that's a tough one to call! ;) It isn't the smoke flavour I've been concerned with, that's what I love!
Anyone notice a stronger ashtray taste when they smoke for several hours or do you think that doesn't really have anything to do with it, perhaps it is directly proportional to temperature?
Just got back from buying more cheese. My smoked is gone. Now I have a wife that only eats the store bought kind. So shes my Guinea pig. I like it right out of the smoker. Now I find it tastes like an ashtray at first bite. But after that it tastes fine to me and gets better with age. But I had served it at 3 and 4 weeks and others loved it. I have also read to leave it set out unwrapped for 2-3 hours before smoking to help it. So my plan is to smoke at 50-70 degrees with ice if need be. For 20,40,60,80,100,120 minutes. Pulling one piece each time. I'll use apple or cherry this time. And if she says it still tastes like that I'm going to soak it a while. Either in milk or water. Since I learned it has nothing to do with Bradley or the pucks I'm considering there must be a better way to do it. I do know in the factory's that do real smoking they use smoke filters and smoked smoke scrubbers. Haven't got to figure any thing on that. But they claim it eliminates bad oils and tars. Should be a better way though for every one to accomplish it at home.
I've been following your conversation this morning and had this thought. ;D
If you have the standard Bradley without any mods or a PID, the temperature probe is in the lower part of the cabinet. It may have read the temp. there @ 77*F, but if your cheese was near the top of the cabinet, it would have been in a warmer enviro. Too warm perhaps?
Quote from: Salmonsmoker on February 03, 2012, 08:15:52 AM
I've been following your conversation this morning and had this thought. ;D
If you have the standard Bradley without any mods or a PID, the temperature probe is in the lower part of the cabinet. It may have read the temp. there @ 77*F, but if your cheese was near the top of the cabinet, it would have been in a warmer enviro. Too warm perhaps?
certainly possible, those with PID's seem to say temp can vary 10-15^ as well it seems. From what I remember I used 2 racks in the #2 & 3 position. I have the digital bradley and honestly don't know where the temp probe is. Bradley not at home right now so I can't even check.
I have cold smoked a lot of cheese with my old 4 rack digital and my new 6 rack digital. In fact the last couple of times in my 6 rack I have not disconnected the smoker box because the ambient temps are around 25 degree here in Minnesota. I usually use apple as wood and smoke for 2 hours. I do use a water bowl for the pucks to distinguish in. Cabinet temps gets around 75 degrees and I do not have a problem with flavor after 3 weeks of vaccum seal in the frig.
When you cold smoke you don't use a PID or your Bradley. You only use the smoke generator. But it will still raise the temp in the Bradley even with a cold smoke box. If it gets too warm set a bag of Ice on the shelf below.
Alder, 2 hour smoke, cold smoke adapter, amb temp never above 74F, sharp cheddar, swiss and pepper jack wiped and vac sealed.
5 months in the fridge now, doesn't taste very good. Tastes bitter. I've still eaten the ones I've opened, they're edible but disappointing and I certainly wouldn't serve them up to guests. The choice of cheese maybe?
Just read that let cheese set out a couple hours starts to harden out side preventing oil from coming out. Maybe that. With amb at 74 degrees but what was the cabinet temp?
You're right on the pid viper, unless it's really cold out. I was thinking about my setup. Even when I'm cold smoking I have the pid on to monitor the cabinet temp., but with the temp. set way low so it doesn't turn on the element. My wall mounted probe for the pid is just below the second rack from the top, where the cheese is sitting. I also have a 12v computer case fan that I made a couple of wire hooks for so I can hang it from one of the lower racks to more the air around and even out the temperature. It works fairly well. The fans are about $5 and last about 1 1/2 years before they get gunked up enough to quit working.
Quote from: viper125 on February 03, 2012, 12:30:19 PM
Just read that let cheese set out a couple hours starts to harden out side preventing oil from coming out. Maybe that. With amb at 74 degrees but what was the cabinet temp?
Sorry I should have said cabinet temp, measured with a probe rather than the bradley one.
I think I'll try Gouda and see if there's any improvement, I would like to get good results from cheese.
If yout talking the probe on door you cant go by that. Its way off.
I don't have a temp issue, I'm measuring with an external probe and using the cold smoke set up. It didn't get above 75F.
Well hope it turns out better this time. Be sure to leave it set out till room temp before putting in fridge too!
Sorry...I am going to be a curmugeon...good lord you guys are analyzing the living crap about a very simple cold smoked item? No curing...no more work...I am confused? I have a very tight window of cold smoking...I am not being condesending...but...geez...
Well your probably right La Quinta! But seriously just trying to figure something that will work for him. I prefer lots of smoke and can enjoy straight out of the smoker and cooled. The first piece to me has a strong off taste but after that its fine. And every body loves it. But to some it seems to be unpleasant. Sorry!
Quote from: La Quinta on February 13, 2012, 12:36:26 AM
Sorry...I am going to be a curmugeon...good lord you guys are analyzing the living crap about a very simple cold smoked item? No curing...no more work...I am confused? I have a very tight window of cold smoking...I am not being condesending...but...geez...
Yeah the reason for that is because despite following the very simple steps
it just didn't taste good. I haven't got around to trying a different cheese but I will at some point. Hopefully with better results.
ok...I got it...no problem. Was just trying to give a little input...I live in a very hot environment and when it gets 40 degrees out...I don't need probes or worrying about the internal temp of the cheese or any of that stuff...guess I am just old school...vac seal for 2 moths and done...