I hope it's ok to ask this question on this Bradley site, but...has anyone tried making their own home made wood tablets? They are quite expensive here (AU$54/pack of 60) - making long smokes quite expensive.
I would also like to try some of my native woods and have my own fruit tree orchard which gives me lots of prunings - and a mulcher too.
The tablets don't appear to be held together by anything much (maybe a simple gum/glue - if that?)
Any thougths appreciated :)
Hi Foodie;
Welcome to the forum.
Some have made their own bisquettes, and a few have been successful. I don't have time to search, but is you do a search you will find a few ways members have made their own with the right equipment.
When I want to use a different wood flavor when using the Bradley, I use a cold smoke setup. Then use a hot plate, small disposable aluminum pan, and use wood chips.
Using Different Woods (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?488-Answers-To-Bradley-Smoker-FAQ-s&p=819#post819)
Here is an example of one made from a cardboard box:
Cold Smoke Adapter (http://www.johnwatkins.co.uk/personalpages/coldsmoking.htm)
Bradley now sells a cold smoke adapter, but it is too small to fit most hot plates into it.
Quote from: Foodie on December 30, 2011, 01:42:29 AM
... making long smokes quite expensive.
Most people apply at most 4 hours of smoke.
Are you running the smoke generator longer than that? what are you smoking?
Hi Foodie,
Try:
http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=4368.msg37673#msg37673
This guy lives a few miles away from me and I have seen the pucks he makes himself, impressive and if I had the time would give it a try.
Not spoken to him in a while and not sure is he is still smoking but he certainly had home made pucks working well.
Hope this helps. :)
The pucks work out expensive around here as well at about ?1 per hour, much more than our colleagues in the US and Canada pay but that's life I suppose.
It is rare you need to smoke anything more than 4 hours as someone else has pointed out, the only thing I ever go more than 4 hours on is cheese.
Well pucks here are not so bad. I can order bulk on ebay for between 35-50 cents. But another way to do it is buy the A-MAZE-N-SMOKER.
I haven't tried one but have talked to quite a few that have. Looks like a basic sawdust pan with some chambers in it. It's stainless and burns quite well to produce a good smoke. Sit it in smoke generator or cabinet. Also good for cold smoking.
Thanks everyone - the reason I thought there were longer smokes was because of the recipe booklet? EG Boneless rib roast "7-8hrs smoke cook") and The Stuffed pork loin roast (a fave of mine) smoke cooks for "6-7 hours" - that would cost me nearly $21 in pucks - the 2kg pork loin (with belly) cost me $30 yesterday....??
Seemed bizarre to me that I would pay almost as much for some sawdust as the meat? Makes for expensive bacon too @$25kg (AU $ fairly equiv to $US)
Anyway - thanks for the references! I will have a look into it (for personal use onlynof course ;)) as I also want to be able to smoke with tea and herbs - as well as my huge piles of orchard prunings and native woods.... :)
(PS - Due to being in an extreme fire risk area - we have to get rid of all our waste wood (espec wattle/acacia) so I actually made my own Biochar maker and we make our own fertiliser/biochar - and natural charcoal for the grill too.....so I am also a very keen recycler too! If I can work out any easier method of making pucks I will be sure to share - but manxmans mates method looks pretty nifty/fun!?)
Your cost for pucks is .90 cents. Most things you will smoke only get 2- 3 hrs. Even pulled pork only gets 4 or so hrs. That's 10.80 for 4 hrs. 5.40 for 2 hrs. Your cost is somewhat higher that here where we pay around .65 - .75 cents. Try putting a small tin can on your burner and put sawdust in it. You have to watch it though as you don't want to burn past the char stage. When you get to the ash stage your are creating tars and cresote which produce bad acrid flavours and carcinogens. That is the key to the Bradleys.
That's really interesting Quarlow - as that is the same process by which a Biochar maker works also - except that the char method is pyrolysis ("charring/burning" in the absence of oxygen) The process does give out gases - which can then be siphoned off the char container and used - or completely burnt off in the outer fire-proper (which drives the whole process) This is similiar for making regular lump charcoal. The absence of oxygen prevents ash formation.
I would need to do some homework yet - but the BS method is not in the absence of oxygen - although it must be fairly low as less O2 = more smoke. The BS smoke still produces the resins etc (which is what we are after) chemicals produced include: phenols, formaldehyde, creosote, organic acids, carbonyls etc....And the more smoke you apply - the more u get - regardless of the system.
Smoked food is not something I would eat every day - it tastes great but ALL contain polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (a known carcinogen)...no matter the wood - and in increasing amounts with increased temp....(soft woods are worst tho)
There is no real secret to how it works - and the claim is that they burner cleaner than "a frying pan or burn box" (only) - I have used a burn box in the past - and didn't like it - it put far too much smoke on the meat - making it bitter and yukk. My dad used to make his own smoke houses out of old fridges with the same results as the BS. He also installed a fan - which was handy for quick drying (but sadly I am not quite that handy myself :(
I reckon it's the automated puck feeder that makes it a good system - set and forget :) and yea - maybe that's the key - discarding the puck b4 it turns to ash. I am not handy enough to make my own fridge one...lol..
The mortar in the Great Wall of China is made from rice flour - so I reckon that would make a great binder!? ;) I was also thinking of Agar Agar....(apparently dried seaweed gives a nice tangy smoke flavour too...?)
I am fascinated by thought of making up my own wonderful puck creations
(curiously: I have heard dieticians recommend eating citrus after smoked foods - to lessen the impact of the PAH or such - don't ask me how it works tho...maybe try google)
I have used both tea and dried seaweed (dulse better than arame) when oak cold smoking salmon and also used tea when smoking duck.
The possibilities are almost endless Foodie... :-)
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Quote from: Foodie on December 30, 2011, 11:43:03 PM
That's really interesting Quarlow - as that is the same process by which a Biochar maker works also - except that the char method is pyrolysis ("charring/burning" in the absence of oxygen) The process does give out gases - which can then be siphoned off the char container and used - or completely burnt off in the outer fire-proper (which drives the whole process) This is similiar for making regular lump charcoal. The absence of oxygen prevents ash formation.
I would need to do some homework yet - but the BS method is not in the absence of oxygen - although it must be fairly low as less O2 = more smoke. The BS smoke still produces the resins etc (which is what we are after) chemicals produced include: phenols, formaldehyde, creosote, organic acids, carbonyls etc....And the more smoke you apply - the more u get - regardless of the system.
Smoked food is not something I would eat every day - it tastes great but ALL contain polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (a known carcinogen)...no matter the wood - and in increasing amounts with increased temp....(soft woods are worst tho)
There is no real secret to how it works - and the claim is that they burner cleaner than "a frying pan or burn box" (only) - I have used a burn box in the past - and didn't like it - it put far too much smoke on the meat - making it bitter and yukk. My dad used to make his own smoke houses out of old fridges with the same results as the BS. He also installed a fan - which was handy for quick drying (but sadly I am not quite that handy myself :(
I reckon it's the automated puck feeder that makes it a good system - set and forget :) and yea - maybe that's the key - discarding the puck b4 it turns to ash. I am not handy enough to make my own fridge one...lol..
The mortar in the Great Wall of China is made from rice flour - so I reckon that would make a great binder!? ;) I was also thinking of Agar Agar....(apparently dried seaweed gives a nice tangy smoke flavour too...?)
I am fascinated by thought of making up my own wonderful puck creations
(curiously: I have heard dieticians recommend eating citrus after smoked foods - to lessen the impact of the PAH or such - don't ask me how it works tho...maybe try google)
Ok, what he said. LOL
OK - here are my sheoak pucks :D
I ended up getting a bag of sawdust, mixing in a gelatine solution. Found a trusty cat food can that is a perfect fit and cut the top and bottom out, keeping the top.
Packed the moist sawdust in and pressed it down hard with the can-top - lifted the whole can off (on a sheet that goes in my dehydrator)
Into freezer for 15mins to set - then into the food dehydrator to dry (took a few hours)
They burnt beautifully! Size was critical - my can could be about 1mm smaller - so I will keeping looking for one.
Now I am ready to experiment with "stuff"! ;)
(edit: No pic until I set up photo bucket, it seems? :(
Here they are....phew...easier than it looked :o
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m572/Foodlover2/pucks.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m572/Foodlover2/BurntPuck.jpg)
Very interesting. Keep us posted on your experiments. Thanks for your efforts so far!
Will do.
I am going to test different binders (agar and rice flour) and compare the burn smell (with my nose - very technical ..lol) - and then compare to the smell of the same wood-type in the BS version...?
The sheoak didn't smell that great to me (an Aust native) - wasn't sure of it was the gelatine or just the character of the wood....
Need to compare apples with apples - so I will experiment with apple wood ;)
It was incredibly easy to make them this way - and I can do a bulk amount no prob's - and the sawdust can be bought quite cheaply. I was stoked that the pucks burnt perfectly without going to ash.
I'd be interested in the cost per puck of the materials involved to make these. Thanks.
Depends on how much you pay for the sawdust I guess...? The rest is cheap as chips...
The can of cat food cost 80 cents (and the dog ate the contents.. ;)) you only need one and it's re-usable.
The gelatine cost under $2 for the container (goes a long way - 100grm container makes up 2.8L)
The Agar cost me $1.56/25grm and goes even further (eg: the one 25gm pack goes into 3L water) Asian grocers carry this much cheaper than health food stores.
The rice flour is pretty cheap here (a pack I already had)
My sawdust cost $8/half kilo though :( (just purchased from a camping shop - so haven't shopped around for a better deal as yet - but I know I could get it cheaper if I cut out the middle man) (2.2 lb = 1kg)
I am just testing the 3 binders today - to see if they affect the smoke much - so I have used quite a bit of binder. * Once I work out which one I like then I will play around with the binder concentration, and post *
Will also see how much it costs/60 pucks.
The Agar-Agar has the strongest holding power (at the same application rate) at present.....(the pucks have only been in the dryer 10mins and this one is almost ready to go already - the gelatine one still soft and the rice flour one in-between - but heaps better than the gelatine)
I mixed the dry binder in the sawdust - added some boiling water until it was all moist (not wet) then nuked the mix in the microwave to "cook", chucked them in the freezer for 10mins and they are drying now.
I am favouring the agar so far...no smell like gelatine and much stickier. As it's from seaweed (and this is good to use in smokers too) then I am guessing it will be ok flavour wise too.
Would love to know what BS use as a binder...? ;)
I will still be buying BS pucks though - as I love the Alder and cherry - can't get that sawdust here.
Looks interesting I may try this to obtain different flavors. Bradley uses .02% collagen hydrolise (gelatin).
The nice thing about this for me is, making pucks from woods Bradley does not provide. sasafras, peach, grape vine etc.
Right now to do these 'other' woods I put chips right on the puck burner or use a different smoke generator.
Wow - how do u know that Haberano? That's interesting info....so we are not far off the mark then.
I am an ex-scientist - so I love doing "experiments" lol....just can't help myself - now I am a 'bored housewife', lol...
Quote from: Foodie on January 04, 2012, 11:51:52 PM
Depends on how much you pay for the sawdust I guess...? The rest is cheap as chips...
The can of cat food cost 80 cents (and the dog ate the contents.. ;)) you only need one and it's re-usable.
The gelatine cost under $2 for the container (goes a long way - 100grm container makes up 2.8L)
The Agar cost me $1.56/25grm and goes even further (eg: the one 25gm pack goes into 3L water) Asian grocers carry this much cheaper than health food stores.
The rice flour is pretty cheap here (a pack I already had)
My sawdust cost $8/half kilo though :( (just purchased from a camping shop - so haven't shopped around for a better deal as yet - but I know I could get it cheaper if I cut out the middle man) (2.2 lb = 1kg)
Yes it would. So, how much does all of that come out to per puck?
Phew Ted bear - not that technical yet - only got my smoker on this Xmas day after all...?
how much can u get your sawdust and ingredients for?
IE: My sawdust is AU $20/kg at present - the 60 puck pack is Au $54 and weighs around 1.25 kgs. U do the math...?
What country are u in? (please don't say US - the conversion backwards from metric kills me!? U will have do that bit yourself - the price u pay for not going metric maybe?? ;) (just teasing!)
But - I would not even try to translate between our countries I don't think. What drove me here was the riduculous price of the pucks in Aust. And there are other non-US members here - going thru the same issue.
Given our recent exchange rates - I should be able to get them cheaper than in the US in fact - or at least at parity. Whatever - this is how BS and the suppliers make their $ - don't blame them there.
Although I need to save a dollar here - I am also with manxman - it's about the possible flavours u can make yourself ...(I am not 'Foodie' for nothing!?)
I believe they do use a type of gelatin so that should be fine. About the size It can't get to big but i'll bet and 1/8 to 1/4 would work. Just a slong as it didn't push to far to the side. If you don't mind I'd like to know the mixture quantity you used. I could start trying here also. If we could get this to work we not only could save money we would have unlimited access to woods that are not available now.
Quote from: Foodie on January 05, 2012, 02:59:37 AM
Wow - how do u know that Haberano? That's interesting info....so we are not far off the mark then.
I am an ex-scientist - so I love doing "experiments" lol....just can't help myself - now I am a 'bored housewife', lol...
In the States they also have to label the ingredients on the box. It's in really small print, and you have to look hard, but it is there:
Contains 99-98% selected hardwood .02% Collagen Hydrolise (binder)Some boxes add:
(no calories are added to the food through the process of smoking).
You could try putting a small amount of the binder on the burner to see if you like how it smells. What are you pressing them with? If you are using a press do you have a pressure gauge on it so you get the same press? It would be nice to have a press plate that is the right size with another plate that fits into it but leaves the right thickness. Then you could just fill it with your mix, scrap it smooth set the top plate on and the press it. I wish my dad's old lathe was working, I could machine one out for you. Of course we have a few folks here with CNC machines (I am jealous) that could knock something like that out. Of course cost would be a factor. What is the burn time of your pucks?
Hi Quarlow - have a look at the pics on the other page - they burn exactly the same (ie- they char but don't ash) edit: that's after I fished them out of the bowl of water too.
I just use the top of the can to pack them down with my hand (very technical..!) - that's all they need. It's so easy to just slip the can off, grab the lid and go to the next one.
Hey that's good lateral thinking to put the mix straight on the burner! Especially as I just knocked the agar one into the water by accident ::) duhh.
I thought the gelatin stunk of horses toe jam when I made it up - but the agar is totally odourless.
Will let you know when I have worked out the binder ratio viper (school holidays here so there is no rest for the wicked... ;))
Ok - just tested all 3 Quarlow - the rice flour smelt a bit like burnt toast, the gelatin was acrid and the agar was great - a slightly sweet smell (to me) so it's onwards and forwards with agar for me :)
Nice looking pucks you made. Looks like the burn is just about right on the pucks. Please do keep us updated on the project.
Telling a buddy and he offered me free sawdust as much as I want of any hard wood. He owns a saw mill. Asked if I would take by the bucket or pickup truck load, LOL
All very interesting. Glad I could help steer you in the right direction.
OK - here's what I have so far:
1/2 kg sawdust (Apple this time)
1.5 Litres boiling water
25 grm (0.9oz) Agar Agar
Mix Agar Agar into the sawdust. Add the boiling water and mix well. Zap in the microwave for 5mins (approx)
Press out pucks (allow to cool a little first!)
Mix the mixture every now and then when making pucks as the water settles to the bottom.
What I got:
60 pucks
Sore fingers!
It took about 40mins to press out the pucks (not rushing)
They are the same size as the ones I made on the previous page (so a little smaller than the BS ones) I am happy with the burn test though (will post pics separately below)
I ended up adding 10grm more Agar. Although this mix above works - I found the extra agar a bit better in the final product (and I didn't want too many 'bits' falling off in the puck feeder?) It's so cheap that I may just stick 2x 25grm packs in next time, and just be done with it.
I noticed that the BS pucks contain sawdust that is quite uniform in shape and size between the different flavours - whereas the smoker sawdust brand I am buying can vary, not so much in size, but the shape of the 'dust'..? (just something to be aware of) (eg: the sheoak is fine and the apple coarser)
I am impressed BS get away with just .02% gelatine (they must be using uber-strength stuff :o)
My fingers are a bit sore - so I am thinking of getting a steel fabricator to make me up the ring and a heavy "stamper" type fitting - so I can just ram them down instead of pressing with my finger tips.
You could add the agar to the boiling water to pre-dissolve - then to sawdust....(I was just saving on mess)
They will air dry it seems - as I left my left over mixes out yesterday (rice flour, gelatine and agar) and they were dry and solid this morning (and stuck to the bowls)
Until the binder sets they are very fragile - so I pressed mine out onto baking trays lined with wax paper and have just left them to air dry. I guess I could chill them to speed up the binder setting.
They will only take about an hour or 2 in my dehydrator (@60 oC) to dry though - but I don't want to move mine now in case they break apart (as I haven't bothered to chill them). Will see how air drying goes (it's summer here so quite dry) otherwise a very low fan-forced oven (with the door slightly open) would be ok too.
They do need to come out of the mould - if they dry in a mould I reckon they would stick to it and be impossible to get out whole..?
Not sure how much gelatine you would use here (instead of Agar) but I'd probably start at 50grms for this recipe - push a couple through the freezer and then the oven, and see how well they set for you :)
Here is the apple puck (made as above) at 20 mins:
(only a small amount in centre unburnt - but maybe it wasn't quite dry)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m572/Foodlover2/Apple1.jpg)
Here is the other side of the same puck:
(sorry about the focus!)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m572/Foodlover2/Apple2.jpg)
As this sawdust a bit coarser - I could probably have made them slightly thicker (mine weigh 11grms and the BS ones about 20grms)
Looking good Foodie.
Phew! Have to call it a day on these guys for now.
I wasn't happy with the bind on my first lot - good news is that the dried pucks reconstitute easily and can be re-done.
I will go for 50grm Agar next time.
I am not very happy with my Apple sawdust - in the pick below is my sheoak, apple and a BS puck (left to right)
The apple sawdust is a bit chunky looking to me - and I am wondering if it will auto-load smoothly or get jammed. Sigh...it's a learning curve 4 sure! ???
I will run my batch thru the puck feeder tomorrow and see how many rejects I get. The diameter is good - but the height likely has to be quite close to the BS pucks. The weights of all 3 very close now (1-2grm difference)
I guess I could run my apple sawdust thru my spare blender - but was hoping to avoid too much mucking about.
Looking forward to making my wine barrel shavings ones 2morrow! (for cheese) yum :)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m572/Foodlover2/3pucks.jpg)
Not sure, as I am just guessing. To me it looks like the Bradley pucks are more compressed. I would think that in mass production they would be using a hydraulic press which would really put the pressure to it compared to fingers trying to press. I think you said you were going to have some items fabricated. What if you fabricate a hand operated crusher kinda like a beer can crusher that will fit inside the die of the puck and you load it with your mix then pull down on the handle and it compresses the puck to the height the puck needs to me and it will compact the heck out of the dust. I'm not an engineer but in my minds eye it looks like that would be the ticket.
That's one way to go about it Sailor - good thinking :) It wouldn't need to be anything flash or expensive I don't think. Mine are burning good with just muscle compression - but a rammer of some kind would likely make for a 'smoother'/more even edged puck.
I just tested a dozen of those apples thru the puck feeder and they loaded fine ;D Yay! Progress.
I am going to test the other 1/2kg of my apple sawdust (which I think looks more like mulch really...??) with gelatine instead of agar. I am wondering if the gelatine sets harder now.
I'd still prefer to use a finer sawdust in the long run though. I might try putting some apple-mulch thru my blender and seeing what the difference ends up being, for the effort invloved...
I bit more tweaking and I reckon I may be off and running!? lol...
Are you going to run a test to see what type of self life they have? Or are you going to be making a few at a time; when you need them. I'm thinking it would be a lot of work to make 100 pucks, only to find that the binder breaks down after a week or so; or they are very susceptible to moisture and will swell.
Easier and quicker to dry them in the oven....I set to 80oC and put the fan on - crocked the door open with a spoon and they were done pretty quick. Won't bother with my dehydrator again.
I also ended up chilling them in the fridge for 15mins or so first - to set the binder. They were taking up too much space in my kitchen (which has acreage bench space even ;)) - and - air drying a bit "soft" I thought. They are much harder now they are finished.
I loathe jelly - so have never made it. Does it actually "set" - in warm room temp - if it's not put in the fridge?
I am still not quite happy with the binder ratio for the Agar (so don't take my word for it yet) ...maybe it's a combination of the coarser wood and lack of heavy compression - but the BS tabs are much harder to snap in half (and my sheoak + gelatine ones are stronger too...the sheoak also a finer dust)
I am still saving heaps even if I used 3 packs of agar though.
Anyway - I have a few things to try now I have a better understanding of the puck size, the binder and the coarseness of the sawdust used...I will post something more definite later when I have tried all the variables...
They are the 3 important things though, I feel now.
It took me 4 containers to find the right diameter size BTW (had to take a puck into the Stupor-market and keep matching it to different cans etc...hmnnn)
The next mission: I am going to try red wine instead of water in the recipe!!? Lol...or maybe a little JD....yum!? I wonder what ouzo would be like? And then herbs and pepper etc...may come up with my very own "special blend"..? ;)
Best cooking fun I have had in ages.....although I think I am more addicted to the smell of some of the woods burning than anything...?? Must be a primordial thing ;)
Dunno Haberano....my BS pack has been sitting open, out on the deck, since Xmas no problems.....but I live in a semi-arid zone...so it's very dry here.
I'd probably lump them into an airtight plastic food storage container - with some of that silica that goes pink when moist...? U could just zap them in the oven again if they got moist maybe..?
Don't have those problems here...more likely a wood eating pantry weevil will try to get to them...grr.
(in the last pics u can see how my puck is burnt/ashing more on one side? That's the wind blowing into the puck feeder...It's in the most sheltered spot I have - but it blows it's guts out here over summer....40oC + straight off the desert and like a furnace...)