I've been converting my recipes that I use Morton's Tender Quick. I've converted them into recipes that use pink salt (AKA InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1). This recipe/formula comes from Charcuterie, by Ruhlman and Polcyn, and I've found it to be a good substitute for TQ. For cuts of meat 4 pounds or less, I measure the cure the same way I measured TQ. My first impression is that it cures within the same time period as TQ, but it does not have as "strong" of a cure taste that TQ has.
Basic Dry Cure (make about 3 1/2 cups)
1 pound pickling salt
8 ounces granulated sugar
2 ounces InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1
Mix well. I used a stand mixer with a paddle attachment. I mixed the ingredients at speed #2 for two minutes. Scraped the sides and mixed for two more minutes.
The actual measurement should be 2 ounces per 5 pounds of meat. Which comes to about .4 oz/pound or 2.25 teaspoons/pound (if using pickling salt), but you don't have to be exact when using a dry cure. I just made some Canadian bacon, and used 1 tablespoon/pound and the lion was fully cured, and it was not overly salty.
When you make your Canadian bacon, slab bacon, pastrami, after measuring the dry cure you can add you other flavoring. Such as additional sugar, garlic powder, herbs etc.
If you used kosher salt instead of pickling salt, your volume measurement will be different, so you should weight the cure. No matter what salt you use in the cure, I would recommend that any meat over 4 pounds, you should weight the cure.
If you have some patients, you can use Turbinado sugar instead of granulated sugar. Turbinado sugar has more of a molasses taste, but comes in large crystals. In a dry cure you want all ingredients about the same size so that they evenly mix. So you need to grind the Turbinado sugar to granular size, without turning it into powder form. I have a small blade grinder and the best way I've found to do this is to pulse 2-3 tablespoons at a time until you get the right uniformity. There are about 8-10 tablespoons in 8 ounces of Turbinado sugar.
Very infromative...printing for future reference.
Thank you.
Thanks Habs. Good information for the future. I have added it to my recipe files.
Great post Habs, thanks again, it's in my files. :)
Why the change? ???
Quote from: bunnydude on June 19, 2007, 09:55:42 PM
Why the change? ???
In the past, because of it's premixed state Morton's TQ was easier to use until I found the basic cure recipe. I've been curing more lately, and most recipes call for pink salt (aka the brand names mentioned above). TQ in my area is getting harder to come by. Wal-Mart used to sell it, but no longer stocks it. So pink salt is easier for me to purchase, real inexpensive, and more versatile because so many books and recipes calls for it. I still have and use Morton's TQ, but this cure adds another option for those that see a recipe with TQ in it, and only have pink salt.
Oh! I forgot to mention that the cure lasts indefinitely. So you can make huge amounts, and place it in a moisture tight container and store it in your cupboard.
Looks pretty straight forward - thanks Hab
I wind up going through TQ pretty quick when I mix their brine to spec, this might be a cheaper substitute, I'm assuming I can build a brine from your dry cure.
Just for curiosity and safety, I wonder if all the concentrated cures (of various names) are consistent chemical compounds? Can you post the percentage nitrite quoted on the pink salt for me to compare to the prague#1 I can find, as well as the amount of cure per pound on the original pink salt, and not your recipe.
All those cures are considered Cure #1; and their formula is the same; 93.75% salt and 6.25% nitrite. I'm not sure about the amount to use for making a brine (pickle); but I will look that up.
These numbers from memor for Morton's TQ:
Nitrate and nitrite, each are 0.5%
Salt about 79%
Sugar about 20%
I use TQ regularly at about 50 percent of what Morton's recommends, both as a dry rub and as a brine ingredient, that is as a general rule: 1 Tablespoon full of TQ per pound of meat or 1 Lb. of TQ per gallon of brine. I think that this compares favorably with what I see written here.
My Morton's book was written 30 years ago and is concerned mostly with meat preservation, not the creation of fancy, cured meats as specialty items. Therefore, the recommendations for the amounts of cures (TQ, Sugar Cure, Smoke-flavored Sugar Cure) are quite generous. That makes most meats come out well-preserved, but too salty.
Hi Bad Fynch;
Thanks for the information. One of these days I am going to order that book; because I will still use TQ. It's a good product, but expensive and often hard for me to get. Maybe the next time I place an order with Allied Kenco.
If I did my calculations right.
The basic cure contains:
Nitrite 1% (that equals TQ's combination of nitrate and nitrite)
Salt about 68% (11% less salt)
Sugar about 30% (10% more sugar)
So you are correct; the brine (pickle) should also measure the same. If any adjustment is needed, it would be to add about an additional 1.5 ounces of salt per gallon when using the basic cure to replace the TQ.
I forgot to mention that I am able to purchase TQ from small, local grocers. You know Wally World: if it does not sell like crazy, they will simply remove it from the shelf and replace it. TQ is also available directly from Morton's Salt on their website. Being in upstate NY, you should be close to The Sausagemaker www.sausagemaker.com a place where one can get almost anything related to these processes.
Our local Wally World used to carry it, but no longer does. The problem is that not that many places sell it on the Internet or stock locally. The problem with ordering it from Morton's site, is that I don't like buying on item and having to pay huge shipping cost. I prefer placing larger orders, that I can include TQ within the order.
I do most of my ordering for Sausage Maker, but I don't recall Sausage Maker every selling TQ. Sausage Maker is all the way across state from me, a good 6 hour drive. Upstate is a relative term, to some it means anything above NYC, to others it means anything above your location.
Dang
I could make a killin sellin TQ on the forum. Lots of stores here have it.
nepas
Aloha
Can you use this substitute for curing or drying sausage? If so, how long to dry or cure the sausage with a good temp? Im using 40-50 deg with 60-70 humidity. The problem is using so much salt to cure!!!!!!! any suggestions...I also use the sausage makers book.
Aloha
Kamano
Dry cure sausage is difficult. I congratulate you for making them. What are you currently using for a cure?
This recipe/formula contains a nitrite (Cure #1), and is mainly for the use of applying a dry cure to bacon, pastrami, Canadian bacon etc. Using a dry cure method, the measurements do not have to be exact, so you have some room for error.
It cannot be used for sausage that are traditionally dry cured; which is air drying the sausage at a warm moist temperature, over a long period of time. Which is what you want to use it for. For that you will need a recipe/formula that contains both nitrites and nitrates, or more commonly called Cure #2. Morton TQ is similar to Cure #2, but since dry curing sausage is so difficult I would not assume that you could substitute one for the other.
I have the book "Charcuterie", by Michael Ruhlman & Brian Polcyn. They have a few recipes for dry cured sausage and with the use of Cure #2, their salt contents look reasonable. Before you decide to purchase this book you should know that only 12 recipes are devoted to dry cured sausage.
Here is a link to a site that will provide a lot more information:
http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage%20recipes.htm
Aloha Habanero
Thanks for the info..being Hawaiian/Filipino we have been eating salt all our lives...I'm just trying to get to the point where I dont have to use so much salt......I want to live long enough to chase my wife around the coconut tree....you know the rest!!! The sausage maker is a great book and I often use his stuffs. Although, to dry the sausage it calls for almost a tbl of salt per pound and of course instacure#2. It usually works out great and always great for gifts (dry sausage). I will have to order the book you recommanded. I like different books and trying different things. I know that Len Poli has some great recipes...I visit his site all the time when I want some good sausage.
Aloha all you great smokers (not the other kind)
Kamano
Aloha Kamanodental;
For some reason, just saying that gets me in a tropical mood.
I know what you mean about too much salt. The recipes in Sausage Maker, does seem like a lot of salt. Depending on the dry cure sausage, Charcuterie recipes call for anywheres from 3-4 tablespoons for 5 pound, plus the Instacure #2. Just a little less, but every bit helps.
Hab,
Great thread you started here. I have a nice rather large Pork Loin that I've been thinging curing.. I may just use your cure. You mention Turbinado sugar... I have often thought about using dark brown sugar... have you tried using it before?
Olds
EDIT Using your cure what do you feel is the timeline per pound?
I would like to use brown sugar, but when I make this cure I make it in big batches. If I use brown sugar, that tends to cake up during storage, and I'm not sure how hard it would cake up in this recipe. I have a book on rub (can't think of the author off hand), in his book he describes a method of drying the brown sugar in the oven, but warns that you will loose flavor. I'll post that method later. So I figured I would use turbinado instead. If you are making a small batch or not concerned about caking, brown sugar can be used.
Still this is a basic cure, you can mix the brown sugar in later with other flavorings prior go applying it to the meat. It measures almost the same as Morton's TQ; 1 tablespoon per pound, but after 5 pound of meat I would measure by weight.
Things like pork loins and brisket, it is easier to judge curing times by thickness. I've made two separate batches of Canadian bacon, and one pastrami using the cure. I feel you need to cure foods a little longer using this dry cure compared to Morton's TQ. I now cure pork loins 7-8 days; 7 should be enough but may need another day. Pastrami (brisket flat) I now cure 5-6 days.
Hi there!
I discovered this forum about a month ago when I started looking at Bradley smokers. Since then, I have been "lurking" and learning. First, I wanted to say thank you to all the experienced posters here - reading the old postings has been very educational, and sometimes very funny. Thanks to all for helping me get a jump-start on the learning.
I was interested in this particular post because I too wanted to use Pink Salt/Cure #1 instead of Morton's to be able to control the various ingredients and customize the cure.
I was double-checking the math (a bad habit of mine), and wanted to offer up the following "formula" for the forum to react to. My goal was to create a base cure or mix that would be as close as possible to the Morton's proportions. Here's what I came up with:
17.5 oz salt
5.0 oz sugar
2 oz cure #1
Total = 24.5 oz
Since the Cure #1 is 93.75% salt and 6.25% nitrite, the 2 oz of Cure #1 equates to 1.875 oz salt and 0.125 oz nitrite. Adding this back to the "pure" salt and sugar above, I get
17.5 oz salt + 1.875 oz from Cure #1 = 19.375 oz
5.0 oz Sugar
0.125 oz nitrite
Total = 24.5 oz
% Salt = 19.375 / 24.5 = 79.1%
% Sugar = 5.0 / 24.5 = 20.41%
% Nitrite 0.125 / 24.5 = 0.51%
I think this compares pretty closely to the ratios in the TQ of 79%, 20%, 0.5%, 0.5% nitrate, with the obvious exception of not including the nitrate.
This synchs up pretty well with Habanero's math in the earlier post, except this brings the sugar and salt back into closer proportion.
Having written all this, I am wondering if you will all think it overkill! I just like math puzzles!
Thanks again for the education.
Hi Hatdance;
Welcome to the forum
More information is better. For those who want a recipe closer to TQ's salt and sugar ratio, will appreciate your hard work. I occasionally will still use TQ, but prefer the Basic Cure formula, because I find the end product less salty.
Hi Hatdance, welcome. Thanks for all your figuring. ;)
habanero you're my hero! i've been looking all over the place for TQ locally and can't find it anywhere. not even at a sausage supply place i went to. i've got plenty of cure #1, now i can use that instead of making a special order and having to pay shipping on a box of TQ. ;D
Habs (dude... to go all Californian/Floridian on ya...) you are IronHabs...your posts are so amazingly informative and spark so may really educated questions. Very good stuff...I could start a culinary Habs club!! Facinating reading. Thank You.
Though the recipe on this forum is correct. It has been brought to my attention that there is an error in the recipe posted on the recipe site. The recipe itself is correct, but there is an error in my opening statement.
The original statement:
For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2 ounces of cure per pound.
Corrected statement:
For cuts above 4 pounds I use 2.25 teaspoons of cure per pound.
Cut and Paste will get me every time. :)
Mike;
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on June 29, 2007, 07:49:02 PM
Dang
I could make a killin sellin TQ on the forum. Lots of stores here have it.
nepas
Prob not a bad idea. I haven't found it around here yet and the web sites where I found it charge more for the shipping than for the TQ. :(
Quote from: DrtiBird on November 03, 2008, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on June 29, 2007, 07:49:02 PM
Dang
I could make a killin sellin TQ on the forum. Lots of stores here have it.
nepas
Prob not a bad idea. I haven't found it around here yet and the web sites where I found it charge more for the shipping than for the TQ. :(
Stupid question for you.....are you looking for it in the same aisle of your grocery store as regular salt, pepper, and multiple other spices? That's where it is here.
Quote from: Tiny Tim on November 03, 2008, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: DrtiBird on November 03, 2008, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on June 29, 2007, 07:49:02 PM
Dang
I could make a killin sellin TQ on the forum. Lots of stores here have it.
nepas
Prob not a bad idea. I haven't found it around here yet and the web sites where I found it charge more for the shipping than for the TQ. :(
Stupid question for you.....are you looking for it in the same aisle of your grocery store as regular salt, pepper, and multiple other spices? That's where it is here.
Not in my market. The store managers just shrug and tell you they never heard of it.
Quote from: Tiny Tim on November 03, 2008, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: DrtiBird on November 03, 2008, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: NePaSmoKer on June 29, 2007, 07:49:02 PM
Dang
I could make a killin sellin TQ on the forum. Lots of stores here have it.
nepas
Prob not a bad idea. I haven't found it around here yet and the web sites where I found it charge more for the shipping than for the TQ. :(
Stupid question for you.....are you looking for it in the same aisle of your grocery store as regular salt, pepper, and multiple other spices? That's where it is here.
Yep, looking in the salt/spice area and also in the canning area. None at local Walmart or Kroger; gonna check Ingles and Publix next.
I did order a 5lb container of InstaCure #1 from Harvest Essentials. Shipping was only $6.50 for 5 lbs and that was less than some others wanted for shipping a small bag of Mortons.
http://www.harvestessentials.com/11200.html
Well, if you don't find any at those remaining places, let me know and I'll see if I can hook ya up ( whether it is cost prohibitive or not) from here.
Is your ingredients by weight or volume?
JD
All ingredients are measured by weight.
In your Canadian bacon dry cure recipe that you use TQ in it. Could you just replace the 1 TBL per pound with Prague #1 1 tbl per pound
MTQ has Cure #1 in it, but they are not interchangable. You can add (salt and sugar I believe) to cure #1 to make a MTQ subsitute.
The ratio is in the first post in this thread - http://forum.bradleysmoker.com/index.php?topic=5463.msg51124#msg51124
Bushman,
FLBR has given you great advice. Under NO circumstances should you substitute Prague #1 for MTQ in the same quantities. Totally different thing. Please refer to the link that FLBR provided you. You don't want to make your family and friends ill.
KyNola
Bushman;
For the Basic Dry Cure, the most important thing after measuring the ingredients is to make sure all ingredients are well mixed and evenly distributed.
The Basic Dry Cure (http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?t=441) formula is also on the Recipe Site.
Thanks guys it`s much appreciated. I was told that it was fine as a replacement from a massive sausage making factory. The person giving info should read up before giving others info.
Thanks Again
I do not have a scale to measure the amounts for the recipie , could you please post the basic dry rub in tablespoons
Thank you
For sausage making you can use Prague Powder #1, but not in the same amount as Morton's TQ. If making less then 4 pounds of sausage you use 1/4 teaspoon of Prague Powder #1 for each pound or meat and fat. Since the 1/4 teaspoon is round off for larger amounts use 1 teaspoon per 5 pounds. But then you will need to figure how much salt and sugar to add, if the recipe does not include it. It may be a good idea to post your recipe so others can take a look at it, and give you a better idea of how to substitute Prague Powder #1.
I'll measure the ingredient by volume, but once I post the measurement by volume you cannot substitute the type of salt you will be using. Pickling salt does not measure by volume the same as Kosher or sea salt. That is the same with sugar, I will post the volume for white granular sugar, so raw sugar, turbinado sugar or demerara sugar can not be used. I should be able to post that tomorrow morning.
Though it is best to measure by weight many members may not have a scale. The following is the Basic Cure recipe measured by volume. Since volume is being used you must use the ingredients listed, and do not substitute with any other type of salt such as kosher, sea salt; or use any other sugar other then white granular sugar.
Pickling salt is table salt without any additive or iodine, it is also called Canning Salt, or Purified Salt. The sugar used is regular white granule sugar.
Basic Dry Cure (by volume)
25 Tablespoons Pickling Salt (or 1 1/2 cups plus 1 Tablespoon)
17 Tablespoons White Granular Sugar (or 1 C plus 4 teaspoons to be more precise)
10 teaspoons Pink Salt (or 3 Tablespoons plus 1 Teaspoon)
Habs, is there a MortonsTQ to pink salt ratio, in other words can you convert TQ to pink salt in a recipe such as maple cured bacon. I have plenty of TQ here but found what I think is pink salt but its white(LEGG CURE 6.25%) I marked #1 on the pkg but the date concerns me 1-12-05 , think I can still use it? just got a 10 lb pork belly and I know it will take a few days to get an order of pink sale here in south florida
Carnie,
Why not just use TQ? I make pork belly bacon often using TQ and brown sugar as the cure mix. I wouldn't risk a curing agent that I didn't have confidence in.
Just my opinion.
KyNola
Hi Carnie;
If it hasn't turned hard, it is still good. If it has a few lumps in it that easily fall apart under light pressure that is alright. The shelf life of sodium nitrite is indefinite, unless it is effected by moisture and/or light.
You may want to test it on a thin piece of meat such as a pork chop.
Thoroughly Mix
1 teaspoon of your cure
2.5 Tablespoons of pickling salt
4 teaspoons of sugar
This will give you a small batch of the Dry Cure that you can use to test. Apply it to the pork chop using 1 Tablespoon per pound ratio, and let it cure for a day. Then slit the meat and see if the inside is red in color. If it is your cure is still good.
If I understand the question correctly, the Basic Dry Cure is the pink salt substitute for TQ. For bellies I use the Basic Dry Cure with the option of adding more sugar and or other ingredients, such as KyNola adds sugar to TQ. It basically measured the same as TQ; for a dry cure you don't have to be exact in the final measurement, but accurate.
Habs, did you ever think of writing a book? I would be your first reader. Autographed copy please. ;D
Quote from: carnie1 on January 12, 2009, 06:47:16 PM
Habs, is there a MortonsTQ to pink salt ratio, in other words can you convert TQ to pink salt in a recipe such as maple cured bacon. I have plenty of TQ here but found what I think is pink salt but its white(LEGG CURE 6.25%) I marked #1 on the pkg but the date concerns me 1-12-05 , think I can still use it? just got a 10 lb pork belly and I know it will take a few days to get an order of pink sale here in south florida
I should of worded this better , Is there a MortonsTQ to your Basic dry cure ratio? Have pink salt on order but won't be here till next week also they gave me some pink salt at the meat mkt but they don't know if its #1 or #2 (language barrier) , so I don't want to play guess which one it is,but I got a few bags of TQ and a bag of Mortons suger cure.
I have just finished reading the 3 pages of posts on the above subject and I am still confused. In the recipes I use it says 2tps of MTQ then in brackets it lists all the rest of the cures such as pink salt prague #1 etc. So i assume they are all the same so when I use a recipe that calls for pink salt I put in the same amt of MTQ. In Ryteck book he says they are all the same. So am I doing it wrong? dave
I think MTQ contains cure and salt and other ingredients. Cure is just cure and does not contain salt.
I hope more experienced folks out there will please correct me if I am wrong because I do not want to give misinformation.
Carolyn
Carnie;
I think I understand what you are saying, a recipe calls for TQ, and you want to substitute pink salt but do not want to make the Basic Dry Cure.
Pink Salt you need 1/4 teaspoon per pound for small amounts. Once you get above 4 pounds you will need 1 teaspoon per 5 pounds (that's because the 1/4 tsp is a rounded off amount). Salt I generally use 2 tablespoons of Morton's Kosher salt for 5 pounds, but many recipes recommend 3 tablespoons. Since you will not be using the quantity of salt that TQ would be adding to your sausage the sugar is optional, unless your recipe calls for additional sugar.
For example for a 5 pound batch (4 pounds meat, 1 pound fat), a typical TQ replacement would be:
1 teaspoon of Pink Salt
5 - 7 teaspoons Pickling Salt (2 - 3 Tablespoons of Morton's Kosher Salt)
Sugar (optional or unless your recipe calls for it)
Piker;
I couldn't find your reference in Rytek's book, but TQ and pink salt are not the same. Pink salt; InstaCure #1; or DQ Powder; or Prague Powder #1; or Cure #1 are all the same, but TQ is not. For example if you use 2 teaspoons of pink salt, that would be enough for 10 pounds of sausage, then you would need to add additional salt. Going by Morton's recommendations you would use 5 Tablespoons of TQ for 10 pounds of meat, with no additional salt added.
Pink salt is 1 pound salt and 1 ounce sodium nitrite; which gives it a ration of 93.75% salt to 6.25% sodium nitrite. It is mixed with salt, because sodium nitrite is used in such small amounts that mixing it with salt makes measuring much easier.
Morton TQ is what I call a cure blend; it consist of 79% salt, 20% sugar, .5% sodium nitrite and .5% sodium nitrate.
The reference might have been in Charcuterie I will find it later. I was under the impression that MTQ was 93.75% salt and 6.25% cure. I no longer have the bag it came in so I cant check. I have to look into this further as all I have ever used is MTQ and have no problems at all maybe I am lucky. Most of the recipes I have used come from this sight and I normally add about I teaspoon of MTQ for every 5lbs. of meat. Will get to the bottom of this thks Dave
Habs, if a recipe calls for basic dry cure and I only have TQ, what is the ratio say 1 tsp Basic dry cure = ?? tsp TQ or if a recipe such as in Charcuterie or Rytek's book where the recipes call for just pink salt example 1/2 tsp pink salt = ?? tsp TQ.
Did I confuse everyone more?
I looked everywhere in the 2 books and nowhere did it mention MTQ. So my mistake as it said all the others are basically the same,[ Page 108 in Charcuterie under pink salt.]so I guess I will have to be more observant in the future
Quote from: carnie1 on January 18, 2009, 09:30:45 AM
Habs, if a recipe calls for basic dry cure and I only have TQ, what is the ratio say 1 tsp Basic dry cure = ?? tsp TQ or if a recipe such as in Charcuterie or Rytek's book where the recipes call for just pink salt example 1/2 tsp pink salt = ?? tsp TQ.
Did I confuse everyone more?
Carnie,
I'm afraid to tackle this at this time. I just got in the house after snowblowing 3 large driveways, and between the fumes from the motor, cold and exhaustion my thought process is worse then usual. :)
For some reason I was hung up on sausage. The Basic Dry Cure is best for making bacon or applying to whole muscle meat, and generally that is where you will see it used. So in that type of application the ratio is 1:1; 1 tsp Basic dry cure = 1 tsp TQ.
If you are going to substitute TQ for pink salt, then I would use TQ as it is recommended by Morton's, and eliminate the salt and sugar (if any) that is in the recipe, but use the other ingredients. If TQ is to be applied to whole muscle as a dry cure, then you would use 1 Tablespoon per pound, and do not add any salt the recipe calls for, but you may want to add additional sugar like maple sugar or syrup.
If you are going to use TQ for sausage, then use Morton's recommended amount, and do not add any salt or sugar that the recipe calls for, but use the other ingredients. I never used TQ for sausage, but I know for small amounts they require 1 1/2 tsp per pound. The amounts may be slightly different for 5 pounds or more. Hopefully someone who used TQ for large batches of sausage can provide that answer.
If I didn't answer your question, I'm sorry. If I haven't provided the right answer, don't hesitate to ask again. That is if you don't get discouraged. :)
Thanks, I pretty much got it, Anybody wanna get real confused on some packaged cures ,check this out http://www.midwesternresearch.com/INDEX.htm (http://www.midwesternresearch.com/INDEX.htm) Hit seasonings, then cures, sorry I can't get a direct link.
thks to everyone that has added to this thread I am pretty sure I have it right now. I checked all the recipes I have done and I found I did not make any major mistakes as I do small batches. I will be getting some pink salt as soon as I find someone around here that handles it. tkhs again Dave
It does get confusing. Morton TQ is a good product, but as Mike (Mr. Walleye) has pointed out; the way Morton distributes information can make it use confusion.
Habs just found this, it may be of use http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Downloads_files/Cures&Fermenting.pdf (http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/Downloads_files/Cures&Fermenting.pdf) and this
http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/SausageDownloads_files/SausageCharts.pdf (http://www.deejayssmokepit.net/SausageDownloads_files/SausageCharts.pdf)
Carnie;
Thanks for posting those links. The first link I was aware of, the second one I just saved. There's a lot of useful information in one place in that second chart.
Thought so, I'll post those links in Sausage Making also, just in case someone misses it here
That would be great. Again thanks for the links.