Shelf life after vacuum sealing

dubob · July 09, 2012, 12:23:13 PM

Okay guys and gals, I've just completed a load of small 8" to 10" long whole kokanee salmon - what I refer to as 'Kokanee Kandy.' Damn, those puppies are good to eat. I'd like to share the product with some friends back east, but the overnight shipping on just 2 lbs is around $70 - OUCH! So I'm wondering if I can ship them priority mail or standard FedEx which will take 3 or 4 days which means they would not be refrigerated for 3 or 4 days.

So I did a search of the Net for information on shelf life of such a product that is produced at home. Could not find anything at all along those lines. I emailed the FDA folks to see if they had any data and they advised they ". . . can't advise for home prepared foods. . . " and " . . .don't know who might be able to help you with this issue." So let me put the question to y'all.

Have any of you every run across any data that would, or would not, support shipping un-refrigerated, but vacuum sealed at home, some smoked salmon?

Up In Smoke · July 09, 2012, 12:51:48 PM

Imho it is well worth the $70 to ship it safe.
No oxygen, moist environment, and the warm temps even though it is smoked,is a recipe for disaster.
maybe get your friends to split shipping?

pikeman_95 · July 09, 2012, 01:29:16 PM

A friend of mine gave me some shipping boxes for temperature sensitive pharmaceuticals and they are fantastic. I think you could send a ice cube across the country un-thawed. Ask one of your local pharmacies if they have any of these shipping boxes. I bet with a block of dry ice in there every thing would arrive frozen. If you pre-freeze your smoked fish after they are vacuumed packed. I doubt that the large chain pharmacies will help you but I bet one of the more local ones might help.

KC

Sailor · July 09, 2012, 01:36:27 PM

I have never shipped fish. I have shipped plenty of snack stix and summer sausage without any problem. Heck, last Christmas I shipped a box of stix and summer sausage from Florida to my Brother in Michigan. I shipped it on a Monday and I guess it got lost and arrived the next week on Thursday. So much for 3 day priority USPS ::) Told my brother he should throw them away. Nope he says "Already had some and they is good and nobody gettin sick. He is still kicking 8 months later.

aces-n-eights · July 09, 2012, 04:23:15 PM

dubob, i regularly send vac-packed, frozen smoked salmon from Alaska to our friends in the lesser 48 - a 3-4 day trip using USPS Flat Rate boxes. Haven't hurt anyone yet!

I brine the fish before i smoke it, then hot smoke, then vac-pack and then freeze. I believe all these steps kill bacteria - or prevent the spread of bacteria. I wrap the fish with newspaper and include a small freezer pack in the box so it probably stays frozen for 2 - 3 of the travel days. No complaints from our friends.

If you have taken similar steps in the preparation of your Kokanee, i think you'll be OK.

dubob · July 09, 2012, 06:15:34 PM

Thanks for the input A & 8. I also brine overnight and smoke at 110 then 140, and finish at 170 for 2 hours. The 140 temp is at the upper limit of the danger zone for bacteria growth but the 170 for 2 hours should kill most bacteria. Then it was overnight in the fridge and vacuum sealed the next day. Freezing doesn't kill bacteria but stops any growth. Refrigerator normal temps (30s) assure a very slow growth of any bacteria. That said, I'm thinking that there will be very little bacteria in the sealed packages at this point in time. If I freeze them down now, that will prevent any further growth until I can ship them. I'm going to check with a couple of local pharmacies for some temp sensitive shipping boxes as suggested earlier and include some freezer packs and bubble wrap if I can find some.

manxman · July 10, 2012, 04:18:28 AM

I am lucky enough to work in a lab and get a plentiful supply of the shipping boxes referred to here which are single use.

I use these for keeping shipments cool:

http://www.sorba-freeze.com/

Presumably they are available in the US, they were originally developed for the fishing industry.

helgi · July 10, 2012, 12:26:12 PM

I do travel often from the middle of Canada SK to Vancouver Island BC. And it is a overnight trip, carry meat products sausage, loins , butts etc. I am lucky that I can get my hands on the shipping boxes from our local petsmart store. They receive their tropical fish in styrofoam lined boxes and are the right size. So all you fellow smokers out there, check out you aquarium and pet stores.
helgi.

rajzer · July 14, 2012, 08:38:45 PM

Quote from: helgi on July 10, 2012, 12:26:12 PM
I do travel often from the middle of Canada SK to Vancouver Island BC. And it is a overnight trip, carry meat products sausage, loins , butts etc. I am lucky that I can get my hands on the shipping boxes from our local petsmart store. They receive their tropical fish in styrofoam lined boxes and are the right size. So all you fellow smokers out there, check out you aquarium and pet stores.
helgi.

That is a good suggestion. A couple of years ago I got hold of some styrofoam commercial fish shipping boxes, Three feet long and you could pack six to eight small salmon in them with ice. I transport frozen fish in therm on a 48 hour trip and they do not thaw! Pack your fish in a styrofoam cooler with ice packs or dry ice and they will do fine. Just to be on the safe side you might want to add some Cure #1 or Morton's Tender Quick into the cure.

pensrock · July 15, 2012, 04:15:58 AM

I get my insulin in the mail and they pack it in a very heavy duty foam cooler with 3 or 4 of those refreeze ice bags. Its always still cold when it gets here. Not sure how long it takes to get here from wherever but it works. My point is if you happen to know any diabetics that get their insulin in the mail, they may be able to hook you up. Good Luck. :)