help with ham brine result

[sprightlyone]

hi
i have just brined my 1st hams when i drained brine 1 leg is firm to touch & seems to have slight colour the other is loose skinned & pale
what can i do to fix iwas a little short on cure measure will this give this result
i have started to smoke the suspect leg & it looks quite pale no colour will i now have aroast or something b/tween roast &ham
any ideas please
lyle

[Habanero Smoker]

Hi Lyle ;

Welcome to the forum.

Some times different meats cure differently. Since you already have it in the smoker, and if you doubt that the ham(s) fully cured, then you should smoke/roast at 200°F or higher. More information would be useful.

Were both hams? What I mean were both cuts from the rear section of the pig. Often people call any part of the pig that is cured a ham, so I want to make sure you only used the cut that is called a ham cut and not one ham and one butt.

How long did you brine, and did you remove the skin and most fat from both cuts?

Did you inject?

Were both hams in the same brine container? If so did you rotate and repositioned the meat each day.

What were the actual measurements of the water, cure and salt that you used, and what type of cure did you use? If you used something other than cure #1, what are the instructions for use that came with the cure you used.

Since you already started smoking them, and you are not sure use a temperature of 200°F or higher during the entire cook time, and bring the hams up to 140°F. There may not be much difference in texture by cooking them at a higher temperature, but you may notice less smokey flavor.

[sprightlyone]

Hi Lyle ;

Welcome to the forum.

Some times different meats cure differently. Since you already have it in the smoker, and if you doubt that the ham(s) fully cured, then you should smoke/roast at 200°F or higher. More information would be useful.

Were both hams? What I mean were both cuts from the rear section of the pig. Often people call any part of the pig that is cured a ham, so I want to make sure you only used the cut that is called a ham cut and not one ham and one butt. 
i asked the butcher for 2 legs of pork suitable for making a ham

How long did you brine, and did you remove the skin and most fat from both cuts?
  i left both legs in brine for 10days , used leg exactly as butcher supplied

Did you inject? yes

Were both hams in the same brine container? If so did you rotate and repositioned the meat each day. 2 containers

What were the actual measurements of the water, cure and salt that you used, and what type of cure did you use? If you used something other than cure #1, what are the instructions for use that came with the cure you used.
i used  misty gully ham maple cure 130 grms per litre water on 1   & bacon cure @40 grns per LB on 2nd the 1 in bacon cure seems to be OK   the 1 in ham cure i was about 200 grms short in measure this is the one i was concerned about
[/b][/i][/color]
Since you already started smoking them, and you are not sure use a temperature of 200°F or higher during the entire cook time, and bring the hams up to 140°F. There may not be much difference in texture by cooking them at a higher temperature, but you may notice less smokey flavor.
i cook all my meat to internal temp of  77 C     or slightly higher        
thanks lyle                                                                                                                 

[Habanero Smoker]

i asked the butcher for 2 legs of pork suitable for making a ham.
If the butcher gave you legs, then most likely they were hams, but you are not sure what cuts he gave you?

I used  misty gully ham maple cure 130 grms per litre water on 1   & bacon cure @40 grns per LB on 2nd the 1 in bacon cure seems to be OK   the 1 in ham cure i was about 200 grms short in measure this is the one i was concerned about
I'm not familiar with these cures. Just because the meat is reddish after it has been cooked, does not mean that it was fully cured, if you did not start with the proper amount of cure to begin with. You can add just enough cure to make the meat red, but it may not be enough to provide any food protection. When making a wet cure, I have yet to see instructions for a cure that states use a certain amount per pound of meat. Those are generally instructions for a dry cure. For wet cures it is generally a specific amount of cure per a specific amount of water; for example 3 ounce of cure #1 per 1 gallon of water. A wet cure uses a lot more cure, then if you were using a dry cure.

i cook all my meat to internal temp of  77 C     or slightly higher
In this case the important thing is at what temperature was your cabinet temperature. For uncured whole muscle meat you should keep the cabinet temperature at 200°F. An internal temperature of 77°C (170°F), is not necessary for domestically raised pigs.


It is best to follow the manufacturer's instructions on curing. Generally there are two instructions; one for the amount to use for wet curing (aka pickling; wet brining); and another for dry cure application (aka dry cure, dry brine).

[sprightlyone]

hi
thanks
finally finished smoking . result disappointing 1 is pink taste slightly salty 2nd a slight pink tinge more like a roast

"In this case the important thing is at what temperature was your cabinet temperature. For uncured whole muscle meat you should keep the cabinet temperature at 200°F. An internal temperature of 77°C (170°F), is not necessary for domestically raised pigs. "
i start cabinet temp @ 65°c & raise temp regularly until i get int temp finish in the mid 70`s
have i got method about right ? or do i need to modify ?? am i finishing to hot for smoked product ?
lyle

[viper125]

I prefer to use the cures found here to make your own rather then store bought. For one thing we have several recipes doing hams and all good. Also tested and done many times. So lots of help when you need it from people who already may have asked the question already.
Sure the store bought are ok, but so many no one really knows them all.

[Habanero Smoker]

hi
thanks
finally finished smoking . result disappointing 1 is pink taste slightly salty 2nd a slight pink tinge more like a roast

"In this case the important thing is at what temperature was your cabinet temperature. For uncured whole muscle meat you should keep the cabinet temperature at 200°F. An internal temperature of 77°C (170°F), is not necessary for domestically raised pigs. "
i start cabinet temp @ 65°c & raise temp regularly until i get int temp finish in the mid 70`s
have i got method about right ? or do i need to modify ?? am i finishing to hot for smoked product ?
lyle

Are you from Australia? I did find some references to Misty Gully Maple Ham Cure. From what I can gather, you did have enough cure for food protection, in both pieces. You should be alright with the hams you have, but next time if you don't have enough cure in the brine per the manufacturer's directions, it should be treated as any fresh meat that you would cook.

The cooking method you use would depend on if the hams were properly cured. If they were properly cured, your method works fine. I generally start at around 43°C and gradually increase the temperature. To accelerate the cooking process in the Bradley I will use a finishing cook temperature of 93°C. If they weren't properly cured then you need to treat the cuts like fresh meat, and would have to cook them at 200°F.

The following link is how I smoke/cook hams in the Bradley.
Smoke Cured Ham

[sprightlyone]

hi
thanks
finally finished smoking . result disappointing 1 is pink taste slightly salty 2nd a slight pink tinge more like a roast

"In this case the important thing is at what temperature was your cabinet temperature. For uncured whole muscle meat you should keep the cabinet temperature at 200°F. An internal temperature of 77°C (170°F), is not necessary for domestically raised pigs. "
i start cabinet temp @ 65°c & raise temp regularly until i get int temp finish in the mid 70`s
have i got method about right ? or do i need to modify ?? am i finishing to hot for smoked product ?
lyle

Are you from Australia? I did find some references to Misty Gully Maple Ham Cure. From what I can gather, you did have enough cure for food protection, in both pieces. You should be alright with the hams you have, but next time if you don't have enough cure in the brine per the manufacturer's directions, it should be treated as any fresh meat that you would cook.

The cooking method you use would depend on if the hams were properly cured. If they were properly cured, your method works fine. I generally start at around 43°C and gradually increase the temperature. To accelerate the cooking process in the Bradley I will use a finishing cook temperature of 93°C. If they weren't properly cured then you need to treat the cuts like fresh meat, and would have to cook them at 200°F.

The following link is how I smoke/cook hams in the Bradley.
Smoke Cured Ham

hi
thanks yes australia
  the "raising temp slowly " method seems to give my ham the roast / crackling look rather than the cold meat ham look & i had them in the smoker about 12 hours
   i`m doing something wrong just don`t know what wish i could talk to some australian smokers on here to see i i can find out what i`m doing wrong
would love to get some australian recipes / methods
lyle

[Habanero Smoker]

There are several Australian members on this board. Hopefully they will see this, but not everyone read all posts. I don't have time to read every post, I generally zero in on a thread by its title. So maybe you should start a post title "Help from my Australian Friends". That may get their attention.

The one ham that taste like fresh ham roast, is because you did not use enough cure. You had enough cure to add color, and maybe enough for protection, but not enough to add that ham like flavor. The other ham, also it does not look like you added enough cure, but not flavor. You can use a range of amount of cure; for example cure #1 (aka pink salt) can be use at a rate of 1.5 ounce - 4.2 ounces per gallon of water. The lower amount gives you the color, protection but minimal ham-like flavor, the higher amounts will give you color, protection, and a greater amount of ham-like flavor.

You should talk to the butcher to see if he has experience with Misty Gully Maple Ham Cure, or email the company or retailer you purchased if from. I googled the term and found some instructions; though I found them difficult to follow.

When I take my hams out of the smoker, the surface is tough but not what I would call crackling (you may use that term differently). It is not until I have wrapped them tightly for a few days that the outer layer will soften again, of after I roasted the hams at a later date.

[sprightlyone]

hi
my experience is store bought ham eaten as cold meat never eaten hot/cooked what i want is a smoked ham i can slice / snack on as cold meat .
"When I take my hams out of the smoker, the surface is tough but not what I would call crackling (you may use that term differently). It is not until I have wrapped them tightly for a few days that the outer layer will soften again, of after I roasted the hams at a later date."
when i roast a leg the outer skin is called crackling this not what i wanted on ham , anyway i have vac-packed it & in the freezer to be eaten later   eating the other 1 as cold meat on sandwiches etc
  i `m going to try again & change my method of cooking
lyle

[Habanero Smoker]

Crackling is a phrase we use over here for pig skin that has been crisped. Generally I will do that separately. I remove the skin, and most of the fat prior to curing hams. Then render the fat to lard, and may crisps the skin in a hot oven.

In the U.S. it is common to reheat whole smoked hams and serve hot.  With my prepared hams, after they are taken out of the smoker, you can slice them and eat them cold or reheat it; if you have smoked them and taken them to at least 140°F. But I'm not understanding what you feel the finished ham should look like, or what the texture should be. I hate saying the following phrase  :) ; but in this case pictures would clarify things. Or if you can direct me to a link to show how prepared hams and Australia look like.

As for flavor; you should also change the way you had prepared your brine.

[sprightlyone]

hi
  your description of crackling is spot-on , i don`t normally remove to cook just leave it on leg
this what i want my ham to look like i realise this is a mass produced look on a commercial ham
this i what a roast & my ham look like   maybe  just a little less roast looking would be good
i know i was short with brine  ( part of the problem) on reflection i think part of my problem is method of applying heat
the 3 options i think i have are
1: pre-heat to 60c apply heat gradually from 60 c until cooked  (current method)
2: pre-heat to 110c & cook 1st then reduce heat & hold @ 70 c until smoke finish reached
3:  pre-heat to 60c smoke 1st then quickly raise temp to finish @ the end
am i on the rightrack or way off the mark ???
may be i will feel differently when i take it out the freezer
lyle

[Habanero Smoker]

Hi;

Thanks for posting the pictures. If you are using a Bradley smoker it is going to be hard to produce that color. One thing I would do is to not cook the hams to 77°C (170°F). I don't know want the Australian government recommends for the internal temperature for smoked ham, but over here for commercial pork, the recommendation is to bring the hams up to 63°C (145°F).

The more smoke you apply, the darker the color will be, but if you don't apply enough much smoke you will not get enough flavor. I would say, if you are slicing the ham up, then I would not worry about the appearance of the finished color, and concentrate on flavor and texture.

I generally will start at a preheated temperature of 43 - 48°C (110 - 120°F) to air dry 8 hours; increase the cabinet temperature to 54 - 60°F (130 - 140°F) while applying smoke; then bump it to 93 - 99°C (200 - 210°F) until it reaches around 60 - 61°C (140 - 142°F).


Here is a picture of one of my hams just out of the smoker. That one was brought to an internal temperature of 67°C (152°F). The higher finishing temperature will also darken the color of you hams. So maybe if you finish the hams at 82°C (180°F), to an internal temperature of 60 - 61°C (140 - 142°F); they may be lighter in color